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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
497
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Posted - 2013.10.12 03:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quick Question:
Why not give all battleships the bastion module? Battleships are for battle not missions which is primarily what they're used for now. Why not leave the Marauders as they are and simply do that?
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Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
292
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Posted - 2013.10.12 04:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Quick Question: Why not give all battleships the bastion module? Battleships are for battle not missions which is primarily what they're used for now. Why not leave the Marauders as they are and simply do that? Because I like my RNI the way it is and would prefer it un-neutered? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
497
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Posted - 2013.10.12 04:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Quick Question: Why not give all battleships the bastion module? Battleships are for battle not missions which is primarily what they're used for now. Why not leave the Marauders as they are and simply do that? Because I like my RNI the way it is and would prefer it un-neutered? Dood, bastion moded RNI ffs. It would rock. Besides how many times can you shoot that Zor and his henchmen before you go totally insane and self destruct it on Jita undock with SB's. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
293
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Posted - 2013.10.12 04:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Dood, bastion moded RNI ffs. It would rock. Besides how many times can you shoot that Zor and his henchmen before you go totally insane and self destruct it on Jita undock with SB's. Yeah, but no way it gets Bastion without being nerfed into the stone age. Forget Zor - it's that damsel that drives me up the wall... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2238
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Posted - 2013.10.12 05:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
No. Battleships are fine. Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
497
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Posted - 2013.10.12 05:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Katrina Oniseki wrote:No. Battleships are fine. They are not fine. They're the least used general combat ship for non-fleet PvP. They're outclassed by most cheaper smaller ships in almost every way including dps (that is actually applied dps not paper dps). |
Hatsumi Kobayashi
Origin. Black Legion.
281
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Posted - 2013.10.12 05:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:No. Battleships are fine. They are not fine. They're the least used general combat ship for non-fleet PvP. They're outclassed by most cheaper smaller ships in almost every way including dps (that is actually applied dps not paper dps).
wat No sig. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
294
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Posted - 2013.10.12 05:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:They are not fine. They're the least used general combat ship for non-fleet PvP. They're outclassed by most cheaper smaller ships in almost every way including dps (that is actually applied dps not paper dps). That's because most people who PvP are cheap bastards. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
497
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Posted - 2013.10.12 05:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:No. Battleships are fine. They are not fine. They're the least used general combat ship for non-fleet PvP. They're outclassed by most cheaper smaller ships in almost every way including dps (that is actually applied dps not paper dps). wat They are not fine. They're the least used general combat ship for non-fleet PvP. They're outclassed by most cheaper smaller ships in almost every way including dps (that is actually applied dps not paper dps).
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:They are not fine. They're the least used general combat ship for non-fleet PvP. They're outclassed by most cheaper smaller ships in almost every way including dps (that is actually applied dps not paper dps). That's because most people who PvP are cheap bastards. :)
Well Yeah a BC is much cheaper, but it also is faster, has much better ability to apply DPS and has a lock time that's almost 2.5 times faster than a battleships. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
294
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Posted - 2013.10.12 05:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Echo... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
497
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Posted - 2013.10.12 05:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Echo... Apparantly she didn't quite get what I said the first time :) |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
295
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Posted - 2013.10.12 06:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Well Yeah a BC is much cheaper, but it also is faster, has much better ability to apply DPS and has a lock time that's almost 2.5 times faster than a battleships. Maybe. We'll see after the new RHMLs are introduced with Rubicon. Anything over $25m ISK is generally too expensive for low-sec anyway. We have to be careful to avoid feeding the wildlife. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Tragedy
The Creepshow
110
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Posted - 2013.10.12 06:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:No. Battleships are fine. They are not fine. They're the least used general combat ship for non-fleet PvP. They're outclassed by most cheaper smaller ships in almost every way including dps (that is actually applied dps not paper dps). They're used more then any other ship in fleet pvp though. So what would it do to the game to have already good ships all of a sudden get massive tanks and damage projection bonuses? Just because they're not used for small gang stuff as much as other ships doesnt mean theres something wrong with battleships. They're filling their role well. Giving them bastion would be OP as hell. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
497
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Posted - 2013.10.12 08:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tragedy wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Katrina Oniseki wrote:No. Battleships are fine. They are not fine. They're the least used general combat ship for non-fleet PvP. They're outclassed by most cheaper smaller ships in almost every way including dps (that is actually applied dps not paper dps). They're used more then any other ship in fleet pvp though. So what would it do to the game to have already good ships all of a sudden get massive tanks and damage projection bonuses? Just because they're not used for small gang stuff as much as other ships doesnt mean theres something wrong with battleships. They're filling their role well. Giving them bastion would be OP as hell. Its frustrating when people say something would be OP but don't give any reason why. Why would it be OP as hell. I.n a fleet fight it would mean all battleships going into bastion or none or some while others use speed as a counter. I don't know but it seems at worst you would have more pew pew time before you pop.
In terms of missioning it would be moot since they're already trivial anyway. In terms of small gang solo, mobility is very important but at worst more pew pew time for battleships at the loss of being able to move. |
Icarus Able
Traverse Holdings
119
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Posted - 2013.10.12 11:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
They arent used for small scale pvp because its small scale....When a 10 man team goes on a mission you dont send in huge support ships.Battleships have their place.
And no. Bastion module isnt needed on battleships.It would be OP cause well it would be OP...Being able to feild that many 60km Blaster megas for that price would be insane. |
Dato Koppla
Perkone Caldari State
316
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Posted - 2013.10.12 12:51:00 -
[16] - Quote
Battleships have their place, don't fix what's not broken. Some more mobile BS can still be used in small gangs to good effect but their main strengths (as you mentioned) are big tanks, big damage and big projection, which are exactly what is needed in a fleet and general PvE, and most BS have a place somewhere in one of those except for a few sad bunnies. Forget OP, Bastion for all BS would create more problems than it solves in terms of balance, it's difficult to theory craft exactly what will happen till it happens, at which point it would likely need to be balanced which would upset the balance of everything else. |
Whisperen
Handsome Millionaire Playboys RISE of LEGION
30
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Posted - 2013.10.12 16:05:00 -
[17] - Quote
IMO most BS need more buffer ~20% more for gall and cal ~30% more for ammar. Minnie bs need ~35% more base speed or 10% less sig and 20% more base speed. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
299
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Posted - 2013.10.12 18:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Whisperen wrote:IMO most BS need more buffer ~20% more for gall and cal ~30% more for ammar. Minnie bs need ~35% more base speed or 10% less sig and 20% more base speed. The buffer isn't the problem, it's the ability to hit anything smaller than a battlecruiser that's the achilles' heel. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
906
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Posted - 2013.10.12 18:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
that's what frigates and cruisers are for
you want something slow/immobile pounded into dust ... send in the battleships you want something fast/agile pounded into the dust ... the battleship is the wrong tool. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
504
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Posted - 2013.10.13 03:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
While I concede it may be a terrible idea, simply saying its a terrible idea because of imbalance or it would be overpowered because it would be overpowered really doesn't say much lol. You cannot legitimately claim OP'ness unless you explain why. Without that your claim of OP'ness is just an unsubstantiated likely biased opinion.
There hasn't been a single post which has pointed out WHY it would be overpowered or imbalanced. |
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Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
302
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Posted - 2013.10.13 03:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:There hasn't been a single post which has pointed out WHY it would be overpowered or imbalanced. To be fair, I don't believe I said it was unbalanced. I said it would come at the expense of the current features I enjoy on my RNI. Because no way it gets just plopped on without something getting nerfed in the process. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
504
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Posted - 2013.10.13 03:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:There hasn't been a single post which has pointed out WHY it would be overpowered or imbalanced. To be fair, I don't believe I said it was unbalanced. I said it would come at the expense of the current features I enjoy on my RNI. Because no way it gets just plopped on without something getting nerfed in the process. Yeah I didn't mean you. You have a valid point regarding your ships getting nerfed. I meant the people saying its stupid because it would lead to imbalance or its overpowered because its overpowered. |
Alara IonStorm
5395
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Posted - 2013.10.13 03:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
I think the best help you could give Battleships for smaller gang stuff is two simple changes.
1. Cut the Cap use of the 100mn MWD down considerably. They run a bit shorter than Cruisers but take much longer to regenerate that. Give them a loftier run time like Battlecruisers, 6-9 minutes without increasing the Battleships slow cap recharge. It would considerably cut down on the Heavy Cap Booster need to have any type of mobility.
2. Scan Res buff. If a Drake aligns to warp at the same time a Raven hits lock the Drake will make it into warp first. With a buffer shield setup the lock time is almost even. Locking another Raven is an 8 second affair. A 40-50% increase in Battleship Scan Res putting them at between 140-170 depending on the ship will give them a reasonable lock time which translates to better small gang use against all types of ships without negating the abilities of smaller hulls to escape as designed.
In effect it also potentially frees up to two midslots for tackle or accuracy mods. BC run time w/o recharch and about 65% of Tier Battlecruiser lock time. Two ways to greatly improve small gang Battleships without making them overpowered. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
302
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Posted - 2013.10.13 04:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'd rather have +10 warp strength. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8208
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Posted - 2013.10.13 04:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:I think the best help you could give Battleships for smaller gang stuff is two simple changes.
1. Cut the Cap use of the 100mn MWD down considerably. They run a bit shorter than Cruisers and take much longer to regenerate the cap % they use. Give them a loftier run time like Battlecruisers, 6-9 minutes without increasing the Battleships cap recharge. It would create the option to have some mobility without a Heavy Cap Booster.
2. Scan Res buff. If a Drake aligns to warp at the same time a Raven hits lock the Drake will make it into warp first. With a buffer shield setup the lock time is almost even. Locking another Raven is an 8 second affair. A 40-50% increase in Battleship Scan Res putting them at between 140-170 depending on the ship will give them a reasonable lock time. That translates to better small gang use against all types of ships without negating the abilities of smaller hulls to escape as designed.
In effect it also potentially frees up to two midslots for tackle or accuracy mods. BC MWD run time w/o the % recharge and about 65% of Tier Battlecruiser lock time. Two ways to greatly improve small gang Battleships without making them overpowered.
BS don't have issues with taking part in small gang fights. The problem is behind the keyboard. |
Alara IonStorm
5395
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Posted - 2013.10.13 04:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: The problem is behind the keyboard.
Sorry to hear that your having trouble with your Megathron. =(
Good remedy. A little more Scan Res and a little less taxing MWD.
Great improvements to hull w/o making them overpowered. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8208
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Posted - 2013.10.13 04:46:00 -
[27] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:baltec1 wrote: The problem is behind the keyboard.
Sorry to hear that your having trouble with your Megathron. =( Good remedy. A little more Scan Res and a little less taxing MWD. Great improvements to hull w/o making them overpowered.
Haven't needed either of those for the last three years. BS work just fine, in fact, we have never had it this good. |
Alara IonStorm
5395
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Posted - 2013.10.13 04:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Haven't needed either of those for the last three years. BS work just fine, in fact, we have never had it this good.
Haven't needed a MWD or Scan Res...
Someone likes Smartbombs. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8208
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Posted - 2013.10.13 04:53:00 -
[29] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:baltec1 wrote: Haven't needed either of those for the last three years. BS work just fine, in fact, we have never had it this good.
Haven't needed a MWD or Scan Res... Someone likes Smartbombs.
and rapid light missiles. My anti frig raven is one of the funniest ships money can buy. |
Robbie Robot
Exiled Kings SCUM.
16
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Posted - 2013.10.13 05:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
It would be OP because of the stacking bonus resists, and to boot, the resists are on a high slot. As is, taking down a Hyperion that has a few local reps before it can deaggress on a gate can be a chore, unless superior numbers of battleships are used, or vastly superior number of BC. Adding a stacking 30% more resist to its already massive tank will exacerbate the problem. Once the pilot wants to get out, the weapons CD timer and the bastion will end about the same time. |
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