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Scarlett IX
The Pandorica Project
0
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Posted - 2013.10.12 08:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
Just thought it might be handy like the dual account training if we could get more remaps by plexing...
Just an idea also if this post is in the wrong place sorry I'm kinda crap at this thing
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Kate stark
593
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Posted - 2013.10.12 08:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
it's just buying SP.
do i need to explain why buying SP is a bad idea? Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |
Zappity
Kurved Space
518
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Posted - 2013.10.12 10:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm surprised you can't do this already tbh. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15584
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Posted - 2013.10.12 10:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
It's not so much about buying SP per se, it's more about buying a way out of the consequences of bad choices. Which is also bad.
When the remap system was introduced, CCP did have it starting with remaps every 6 months. The out cry with this was very large, so they reduced it to once every year year. Although gifts and the odd give away of remaps meant we actually had it better than that for some time.
This is felt by many to be bad, because it removes the point of planning and consequences of bad choices. It leads to people with ISK being able to train at the highest speed no matter the choices they make. You may as well remove attributes and hand that to all, if you wish to dilute the game in such a fashion.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Wapu Kashuken
Serenity Rising LLC Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
48
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Posted - 2013.10.12 11:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Eve is a strategic game with consequences. Most things in eve require the ability to plan long term. I agree that plexing this is akin to 'pay-to-win' in that only isk rich players will be able to continually remap to maximize their skill points in shorter periods of time than would normally allow.
Also, no, it is not like dual character training. Dual character training was done because players had toons in separate accounts for the sole purpose of training them separately. Considering each account could contain 3 toons, this was a waste, as well as a pita to manage. Each player training still has to manage their training just like everyone else so there really is no benefit aside from account consolidation, which has no downside to CCP since they still get paid. |
Icarus Able
Traverse Holdings
119
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Posted - 2013.10.12 11:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Being the idiot that used all his remaps within a week of playing Maybe have the option to remap for plex once a year? So you get two remaps? Doesnt seem terribly Op with buying SP. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1290
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Posted - 2013.10.12 14:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Icarus Able wrote:Being the idiot that used all his remaps within a week of playing Maybe have the option to remap for plex once a year? So you get two remaps? Doesnt seem terribly Op with buying SP. I suggest disabling remaps for the first six months after creating an account. That way new players can't get burned until they (hopefully) know better. Allow people creating alt accounts to petition to have the lock removed. |
Korrimal Ohmiras
EVE University Ivy League
24
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Posted - 2013.10.12 15:52:00 -
[8] - Quote
A lot can happen in a year. Some people end up changing corps in order to get varied experiences and each has its specific areas that it focuses on. Notwithstanding bad decisions, there are also a lot of good decisions that, 6 months down the road, become bad simply by virtue of the fact that circumstances have changed.
For example if you are running with an industrial group and then suddenly find a really good pvp group, half way through the year, chances are you are going to need an extra remap to shift your training plan to the new direction.
That isn't called bad planning - that is called life.
I don't see the problem with offering additional remaps throughout the year.
What might mitigate the misuse of being able to plex a remap is it you also tied it to an epic arc, similar to SOE. so that it is not just a matter of throwing ISK at the problem but that you are also required to put in an investment of time in order to get the remap. Anyone willing to invest 5-10 hours to complete an arc line plus throw 600M ISK into the kitty must really want that remap badly.
I would probably add one more provision - any time investment would need to be done solo (i.e. the player wouldn't be able to just pay someone else to run the arc for them, short of giving them their password, and have the mission portion completed). Alternative would be cooperative play (incursion / bounties / etc) that requires a certain number of LP points or other such type of metric. Or combinations thereof. |
Simc0m
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
47
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Posted - 2013.10.12 16:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
+1 simple idea that many people would use. I'd much rather see PLEX for name change but this would be neat as well. |
Yolo
Yolo Corp xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
55
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Posted - 2013.10.12 16:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
I can accept this, pay Plex to balance out for bad planning. - since 2003, bitches |
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1805
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Posted - 2013.10.12 16:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
Reporting this as a duplicate of five hundred other 'PLEX for SP' threads.
learn to search, and shove your pay to win ideas somewhere anatomically improbable. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
346
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Posted - 2013.10.12 18:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Remap as a redeemable item from SoE LP store? (for lots and lots of LP).
EDIT: By item I mean its directly applied when redeemed not something you could trade. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
409
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Posted - 2013.10.12 19:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
No Remove insurance. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
346
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Posted - 2013.10.12 19:32:00 -
[14] - Quote
Your thinking being? |
Rodrik Vikary
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2013.10.12 19:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
The thinking being: plan ahead and have only yourself to blame for any choices you come to dislike.
Pay to win is always bad. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
409
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Posted - 2013.10.12 20:29:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rodrik Vikary wrote:The thinking being: plan ahead and have only yourself to blame for any choices you come to dislike. This.
And it doesn't matter whether it is delivered by Plex or LP. You get one remap every year and a bonus remap on top every couple of years (if you're lucky).
Remove consequences from choices and your choices become meaningless. Once you remove them, you start going after the next thing that bothers you. An then another. It's a constant spiral of entitlement and instant gratification.
Remove insurance. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
346
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Posted - 2013.10.12 21:01:00 -
[17] - Quote
^^ LP unless its possible to trade it isn't removing the consequences, ostensibly the trade off would be having to put some effort into building up the LP. (There are some slight considerations with current game mechanics that have an impact on that which might need tweaking but thats another story). |
Criseyde
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2013.10.12 21:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:Rodrik Vikary wrote:The thinking being: plan ahead and have only yourself to blame for any choices you come to dislike. This. And it doesn't matter whether it is delivered by Plex or LP. You get one remap every year and a bonus remap on top every couple of years (if you're lucky). Remove consequences from choices and your choices become meaningless. Once you remove them, you start going after the next thing that bothers you. An then another. It's a constant spiral of entitlement and instant gratification.
Except that having more remaps increases the choices you make, thus providing more consequences.
Why not give people 1 remap every month (but they only ever have one at a time - no bonus remaps), so they get proper consequences every damn month. |
SOL Ranger
SOL.
39
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Posted - 2013.10.12 22:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
No, there is no need for anyone to bypass more game mechanics and consequences, quite the opposite; Resets should be completely abolished.
I've said this a couple times before, well at least once. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3575837#post3575837
SOL Ranger wrote: ... Attribute change: I believe attributes should not be manually assigned nor "reset", instead they should by the skills you train home in on those specific attributes it requires, so you become keen in those attribute areas needed over time and train faster.
We get:
Still takes time to change skill type training scheme. Doesn't require any thought in to setting attributes. No more magical sudden "resets". No more risk in making a faulty attribute mapping. No more waiting a year to fix a faulty attribute mapping. Natural progression into whatever you fancy training. Keeps same penalty for mixing training.
Essentially slowly morphing attributes and remove the possibility to reset completely.
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
346
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Posted - 2013.10.12 22:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Dunno that goes a bit too far towards erroding any point to there actually being different attributes in the game.
I'm not a great fan of game mechanics though where there is very little you can do if you mess up atleast with the LP idea if you accidentally mis-read and remapped wrong or whatever you could go away and through ingame actions fix your mess up - if done correctly via LP there would be no effective way to buy yourself out of it other than through doing the leg work to get the required LP. |
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Icarus fall
What Shall We Call It
4
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Posted - 2013.10.12 22:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
SOL Ranger wrote:No, there is no need for anyone to bypass more game mechanics and consequences, quite the opposite; Resets should be completely abolished. I've said this a couple times before, well at least once. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3575837#post3575837SOL Ranger wrote: ... Attribute change: I believe attributes should not be manually assigned nor "reset", instead they should by the skills you train home in on those specific attributes it requires, so you become keen in those attribute areas needed over time and train faster.
We get:
Still takes time to change skill type training scheme. Doesn't require any thought in to setting attributes. No more magical sudden "resets". No more risk in making a faulty attribute mapping. No more waiting a year to fix a faulty attribute mapping. Natural progression into whatever you fancy training. Keeps same penalty for mixing training. Essentially slowly morphing attributes and remove the possibility to reset completely.
isn't this basically the learning skills that they removed from the game? |
Stjaerna Ramundson
48
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Posted - 2013.10.13 01:02:00 -
[22] - Quote
*sign*
But i have another idea for a "remap" in this sort.
In first line, the remap can only used 1 time and than it is over.
The Remap can remap all skills from the FIRST YEAR! only. You can choice which you want to remove and wich you want to keep. Systems checks if it is ok to remove leadership skill (i chosen it) but it say NO! because i have a skill that is based on this skill to upload. Uploading system have to be ... you know what i mean. ^^
In short:
1. Time 2. only first year in eve 3. only one time for the char
This is the only form i would accept a remap.
1. Eigenen Beitrag mit sachliche Argumentationen, Problemschilderung, Erkl+ñrung, L+¦sungsans+ñtzen formulieren. 2. Beitrag enth+ñlt eine eigene Meinung im Fazit zum Thema. 3. Negative +äu+ƒerungen, Drohungen usw. gegen++ber Nutzern haben in der Meinung nichts zu suchen. |
SOL Ranger
SOL.
39
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Posted - 2013.10.13 01:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
Icarus fall wrote: isn't this basically the learning skills that they removed from the game?
Not at all, with learning skills you had a choice to either train them or fall behind every second you ignored them, essentially penalizing those who chose to train what they wanted and actually played the game.
With this change you can train what you want immediately and there are no skills you need to train before you go for what you desire.
Accompanying this change I would add the removal of learning implants as well because they are in fact the learning skills equivalents in disguise, not to mention the massive hazard and drawback they present in terms of unjustified risks in PvP vs. carebear privilege.
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Zappity
Kurved Space
519
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Posted - 2013.10.13 01:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
SOL Ranger wrote:Accompanying this change I would add the removal of learning implants as well because they are in fact the learning skills equivalents in disguise, not to mention the massive hazard and drawback they present in terms of unjustified risks in PvP vs. carebear privilege.
Absolutely. Learning implants are a stupid mechanic that discourage PvP and even PvE. They should be removed and replaced with learning boosters (if they have to be replaced at all).
The main consequence of choosing to use high level learning implants is that you don't want to undock. Bad mechanic. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Jarindisaze
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.10.13 01:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
SOL Ranger wrote:Accompanying this change I would add the removal of learning implants as well because they are in fact the learning skills equivalents in disguise, not to mention the massive hazard and drawback they present in terms of unjustified risks in PvP vs. carebear privilege.
Definately +1 on this.
As far as what OP suggested i can't help but disagree. On the other hand i'm thinking that we all are hi-tech intelligent beings living in a highly advanced era so...a mechanic that gives to each character a one-time, fixed amount SP re-distribution Token would not be unreasonable. Not buying SP, simply re-distrubuting a fixed amount of SP between already allocated SP, at a time of our choosing, and it would only be allowed once per character. I can't really say if we should also pay a Plex or how much amount of SP we should be allowed to re-distribute, but as a mechanic it doesnt seem excessive with these or similar restrictions. |
Shamus en Divalone
Dip Dip Potatoe Chip
7
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Posted - 2013.11.07 17:43:00 -
[26] - Quote
I think for a plex you should be able to remap you current SP, not remap or gain anymore sp but just re-arrange the ones you have should you decided your career choice was wrong.
Remapping constantly would be a isk for sp bonus to those who could, so bad idea i guess.
If anything LP (large amounts) for maybe a reduction in remap waiting time although this is probably a bad idea too.
When a new player starts they get spare remaps just in case anyway. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
154
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Posted - 2013.11.07 17:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
Shamus en Divalone wrote:I think for a plex you should be able to remap you current SP, not remap or gain anymore sp but just re-arrange the ones you have should you decided your career choice was wrong.
Remapping constantly would be a isk for sp bonus to those who could, so bad idea i guess.
If anything LP (large amounts) for maybe a reduction in remap waiting time although this is probably a bad idea too.
When a new player starts they get spare remaps just in case anyway. And SP reallocation for PLEX/LP would also be buying SP since you could train BS V with a per/will remap, reallocate the SP into a charisma or memory based skill, and then repeat forever. Bad idea. |
Shamus en Divalone
Dip Dip Potatoe Chip
7
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Posted - 2013.11.08 08:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Shamus en Divalone wrote:I think for a plex you should be able to remap you current SP, not remap or gain anymore sp but just re-arrange the ones you have should you decided your career choice was wrong.
Remapping constantly would be a isk for sp bonus to those who could, so bad idea i guess.
If anything LP (large amounts) for maybe a reduction in remap waiting time although this is probably a bad idea too.
When a new player starts they get spare remaps just in case anyway. And SP reallocation for PLEX/LP would also be buying SP since you could train BS V with a per/will remap, reallocate the SP into a charisma or memory based skill, and then repeat forever. Bad idea.
Good point, I didn't think of it that way |
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