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Malinda Short
Praetorian Black Guard Frater Adhuc Excessum
0
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Posted - 2013.10.14 18:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
Preface: All corps have shares floating in no mans land. Weather the characters have gone inactive for over a year or are perma banned, there is no mechanic available to recoup these shares. CCP GM's consider shares to be part of a character's assets. I've been informed that the only way to deal with this is to bloat the entire share pool to minimize the percentage of the wasted shares. This isn't really an acceptable solution, continuously sending isk to never never land every time you want to pay dividends just erks me.
Suggestions: 1. Shares should be considered a Corp asset, merely on loan to a character to mark his investment. 2. Shares should be assigned an isk value, calculated by the value of a Corps assets (wallet and hanger items) 3. Corps should be allowed to assign shares as rewards, but also sell shares at the calculated cost for investment purposes. 4. Shares would be able to be sold back to corp at current share value. 5. Through a corp share holder vote there should be a "Hostile Buy Back", to recoup lost shares from inactive, or kicked players 6. A new share split system would need to be created to avoid just adding shares to reduce a shares value.
Effects: This system would allow shares to take on a more important role in the EvE universe, while allowing the Corp to reduce losses due to inactive or banned players. Players would see their investment grow as the Corp grows even if dividends aren't paid out. Anyone who would have a "Hostile Buyback" carried out against them would still receive full isk value for their shares. It would also lay the frame work for a future stock exchange system that would allow corps to go public, creating an entirely new market. This would also help to reduce corp jumpers and increase the importance of team work for Corp expansion and survival. Yes this may bring about new scams but that is the beauty of EvE.
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Malinda Short
Praetorian Black Guard Frater Adhuc Excessum
0
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Posted - 2013.10.14 19:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
This would also put an isk value on your Corp that would change with market fluctuations. That data could be used as a recruitment tool as well as attract awoxers.
oh, and
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Absem Crendraven
Praetorian Black Guard Frater Adhuc Excessum
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Posted - 2013.10.14 19:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
I Def agree with this, there are so many toons no longer active that are tying up shares in a corp they should be able to be reallocated. |
Devereiux
Quiet.Storm Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2013.10.14 23:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Would be noice to have a stock market as well, oh the scams would be juicy!
+1 |
Leto Atal
LoneStar Industries Comatose Alliance
9
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Posted - 2013.10.14 23:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
But shares are assets that belong to a character. If they could be rescinded they wouldn't be shares.
I do understand your original problem though. Would it not be simpler to just say that any dividends paid only go to active accounts? If their clone is in stasis then so are their assets.
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Devereiux
Quiet.Storm Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2013.10.14 23:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Leto Atal wrote:But shares are assets that belong to a character. If they could be rescinded they wouldn't be shares.
I do understand your original problem though. Would it not be simpler to just say that any dividends paid only go to active accounts? If their clone is in stasis then so are their assets.
A corporations shares are a corp asset. They are then granted to people to represent an investment value. Shares can be bought, sold, or recouped. They wouldn't be recinded, just bought back forcefully at current market value. So just as in real life corprate stock systems, the majority stock holders can force another out of their stake...at a price. Right now Eve's share sytem is totally broken and useless. Shares can not be used to add to the value of the corp, and can not be recouped when players quit the game. In real life people have wills and heirs. It would make sense to rework it to benefit everyone. |
Leto Atal
LoneStar Industries Comatose Alliance
10
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Posted - 2013.10.15 01:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Devereiux wrote:Leto Atal wrote:But shares are assets that belong to a character. If they could be rescinded they wouldn't be shares.
I do understand your original problem though. Would it not be simpler to just say that any dividends paid only go to active accounts? If their clone is in stasis then so are their assets.
A corporations shares are a corp asset. They are then granted to people to represent an investment value. Shares can be bought, sold, or recouped. They wouldn't be recinded, just bought back forcefully at current market value. So just as in real life corprate stock systems, the majority stock holders can force another out of their stake...at a price. Right now Eve's share sytem is totally broken and useless. Shares can not be used to add to the value of the corp, and can not be recouped when players quit the game. In real life people have wills and heirs. It would make sense to rework it to benefit everyone.
Wrong. Corporations shares are not a corp asset. They belong to whoever bought them, or the issuing company if they haven't been bought yet.
Shares can't be forcibly recouped in the real world. It's always up to the owner of the shares as to whether they want to sell. If the owner is in a long term coma then the next of kin can go through the courts to gain power of attorney over the persons assets.
Either way the company that issued the shares has no control over them once sold. Shareholders collectively own and control the company. In publicly traded companies the number of individual shareholders can be huge so the control is done by proxy via a board of directors. In a private company the number of shareholders are usually much smaller and individuals have more direct control.
Part of the problem is that capsuleers never truly die so inheritance doesn't really work and taking shares from an inactive player, even if they are paid for, is unethical. If you had a limited edition EVE tournament prize ship and were inactive for 6 months, how would you like it if I could force you to sell the ship to me for it's current market price? That's what you're proposing to allow with shares.
In reality corporations are formed and closed all the time. Assets are moved between them. If an existing corp has too many zombie shareholders close the corp and form a new one.
My original suggestion of not paying dividends to inactive shareholders isn't even realistic but is a simple change to a very complex problem. |
Malinda Short
Praetorian Black Guard Frater Adhuc Excessum
3
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Posted - 2013.10.15 02:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Leto Atal wrote:[
Part of the problem is that capsuleers never truly die so inheritance doesn't really work and taking shares from an inactive player, even if they are paid for, is unethical. If you had a limited edition EVE tournament prize ship and were inactive for 6 months, how would you like it if I could force you to sell the ship to me for it's current market price? That's what you're proposing to allow with shares.
In reality corporations are formed and closed all the time. Assets are moved between them. If an existing corp has too many zombie shareholders close the corp and form a new one.
My original suggestion of not paying dividends to inactive shareholders isn't even realistic but is a simple change to a very complex problem.
There is no isk valuse as of now placed on shares in game. Shares are not sold, they are granted just like roles. There are no mechanics for power of attorney, or lawsuits, or any other way to get them back. Characters are bought and sold all the time, is it ethical to have a complete stranger who has never done anything for your corp earn rewards from your work? Right now you can just create shares out of thin air and make the existing shares worth exponentially less which is far more un ethical than being forced by a share holders vote to take market value for them. Furthermore your suggestion that it would be like forcing you to sell a ship to me it way off base. You having a ship that you earned has no effect on me or my corpmates game experience. You having shares affects my whole corp. This would also truely allow a corp member to be kicked completely.
My solution is far more ethical than the current system and would lay the frame work for future expansion of shares in the game. Even if it took a 75% majority vote, and cost 1.5x market value, it would still be far more effective than shutting down a corp and trying to reboot with all the corp assets to try to transfer. |
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Northern Associates.
112
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Posted - 2013.10.15 04:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Wow people actually use Shares? normally they just sit in the Corp Assests and never get touched, everything can be handled from the CEO and Directors without needing to wait X amount of time for a Vote, The only time I've ever seen shares used was to forcibly remove a CEO that had gone offline for 6months |
Malinda Short
Praetorian Black Guard Frater Adhuc Excessum
3
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Posted - 2013.10.15 17:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Caldari 5 wrote:Wow people actually use Shares? normally they just sit in the Corp Assests and never get touched, everything can be handled from the CEO and Directors without needing to wait X amount of time for a Vote, The only time I've ever seen shares used was to forcibly remove a CEO that had gone offline for 6months
Exactly, it's time to make them a useful part of the game lols. |
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