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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
691
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Posted - 2013.10.23 19:06:00 -
[361] - Quote
Archare wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:If you decide to shoot the Jita monument in the meantime remember to take a jacket so you don't catch a cold. You need to make that corpse gun so I can shoot my naked body at the monument. Only naked until Rubicon...unfortunately, our pilots are not wearing their birthday suits any longer. It's too bad, really, as it really made it feel like the capsuleer commits to bonding with the pod (and ship) only, leaving all (Earthly) possessions behind. Yes, even their underpants! Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
>> Play Dust 514 FREE! Sign up for exclusive gear today! << |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
733
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 19:13:00 -
[362] - Quote
Edward Pierce wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:Bubble immune dictors would be wtfbbqop. Just saying.
Rest of your feedback I'm looking into and taking note of, keep it coming. I see Fozzie posted on the Eve Vegas thread today, hopefully he'll come by and give us something after a week?
Bubble-immune anything is OP: "immunity to non-targeted interdiction" should be scrapped as a ship attribute across the board.
CCP Fozzie wrote:I'm back from Vegas and caught up on the thread. I've been discussing some version 2 stuff with Rise and Ytterbium today.
I expect version two of these changes will go to the CSM within the next day or so then on to you guys asap. Thanks for the feedback so far.
If you decide to shoot the Jita monument in the meantime remember to take a jacket so you don't catch a cold.
Here's to hoping you guys can get some meaningful improvements approved. My Sabre is sad that it can hardly fight anything and has to spend most of its time running away from stuff.
Hope Vegas was fun, and that you managed to soak up some of that sunlight for the weeks ahead! |
Aust Silverfrond
Black Slag Authenticated You Failed the Mumble Test
3
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Posted - 2013.10.23 20:02:00 -
[363] - Quote
seriously, the new gallente split weapons is just dumb, please reconsider this process
Also, might not be the place for this, but can we consider moving khanid ships from missiles to drones, which is what amarrs second weapons system actual is? it seems really silly that for all t1 amarr ships you have lasers and drones, then t2 comes along and suddenly oh, missiles... ok....
It was ok when the t1 ships had a few missile ships (bring back my missile inquisitor d****t!!!! but now youve refocused several ships to be drone boats
tl:dr laser heretic, no split eris, also bubble immune sounds good |
Blodhgarm Dethahal
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
45
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Posted - 2013.10.23 20:37:00 -
[364] - Quote
Until there is a second set of T2 Destroyers I think you should have these stick to their racial primary weapons.
Amarr = Lasers Gallente = Hybrids Caldari = Missiles Minmatar = Projectiles
And don't try to say that the Eris is already a Hybrid boat, its not. You said you were doing away with split weapon systems and you have done that except on select Navy Faction Ships, which is fine. T2 symbolizes specialization so do not split its weapons up.
Other than that it seems solid to me, maybe a shield resist bonus on the Flycatcher to compete with the Heretic's armor resist bonus? -Bl+¦d
Transcendent Sedition is recruiting! Join "TSED Recruitment" chat ingame to talk to us if you are interested in Wormhole life! |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2529
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 22:50:00 -
[365] - Quote
Just another reminder that "Roden = Split Weapons" is a horrible theme which should be purged at the earliest opportunity. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
421
|
Posted - 2013.10.23 23:31:00 -
[366] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Just another reminder that "Roden = Split Weapons" is a horrible theme which should be purged at the earliest opportunity.
reminder that you're stupid, they just need to do it better |
Lfod Shi
Lfod's Ratting and Salvage
133
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Posted - 2013.10.24 00:34:00 -
[367] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:Just another reminder that "Roden = Split Weapons" is a horrible theme which should be purged at the earliest opportunity.
And that the Heretic looks to be a superior missile platform to the Flycatcher (8.75 effective launchers with selectable damage types, against 9 effective launchers in kinetic flavour only).
Fix these two things and the balance between the classes is much improved. You then have the wider issue that the dictor hull is little more than a one-use suicide bubbler, which needs some more radical alterations.
Kinetic flavor is my favorite! Can't wait for the sprinkles.
...end transmission... GÖ¬ They'll always be bloodclaws to me GÖ½ |
Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
36
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Posted - 2013.10.24 09:46:00 -
[368] - Quote
Damian Gene wrote:
The players give feedback, but we've seen less and less feedback from the devs! I miss scrolling down and seeing the blue tags. Can you please give us some more incite to what your thinking? What are your goals? You guys also play, so how will this change the ship class to what you'd like to fly?
Fozzie is likely scrambling to come up with a version 2 of this thread like was done with the industrial rebalance. Which was very, very good. You hear that Fozzie? WE STILL BELIEVE IN YOU!!
http://slackiance.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/lazybelieve.jpg |
Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
36
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Posted - 2013.10.24 09:49:00 -
[369] - Quote
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Until there is a second set of T2 Destroyers I think you should have these stick to their racial primary weapons.
Amarr = Lasers Gallente = Hybrids Caldari = Missiles Minmatar = Projectiles
And don't try to say that the Eris is already a Hybrid boat, its not. You said you were doing away with split weapon systems and you have done that except on select Navy Faction Ships, which is fine. T2 symbolizes specialization so do not split its weapons up.
Other than that it seems solid to me, maybe a shield resist bonus on the Flycatcher to compete with the Heretic's armor resist bonus?
What would you think about them scrapping the Eris as a gunboat, and turning it into a T2 version of the Algos produced by CreoDron?
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Quontor Zarrkos
Pwn 'N Play Nulli Secunda
21
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Posted - 2013.10.24 12:31:00 -
[370] - Quote
Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Until there is a second set of T2 Destroyers I think you should have these stick to their racial primary weapons.
Amarr = Lasers Gallente = Hybrids Caldari = Missiles Minmatar = Projectiles
And don't try to say that the Eris is already a Hybrid boat, its not. You said you were doing away with split weapon systems and you have done that except on select Navy Faction Ships, which is fine. T2 symbolizes specialization so do not split its weapons up.
Other than that it seems solid to me, maybe a shield resist bonus on the Flycatcher to compete with the Heretic's armor resist bonus?
This, very much this. We don't need special flavor on these things like split weapons. Just make them improved versions of the t1 destroyers with the ability to deploy bubbles. And make them able to fight stuff instead of dying to well-fit assault frigates, their primary role should still be support against small tackle from the enemy. If the sabre works and is your role model, why don't you make a hybrid, laser and missile version of it? |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
598
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Posted - 2013.10.24 12:41:00 -
[371] - Quote
Quontor Zarrkos wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Until there is a second set of T2 Destroyers I think you should have these stick to their racial primary weapons.
Amarr = Lasers Gallente = Hybrids Caldari = Missiles Minmatar = Projectiles
And don't try to say that the Eris is already a Hybrid boat, its not. You said you were doing away with split weapon systems and you have done that except on select Navy Faction Ships, which is fine. T2 symbolizes specialization so do not split its weapons up.
Other than that it seems solid to me, maybe a shield resist bonus on the Flycatcher to compete with the Heretic's armor resist bonus? This, very much this. We don't need special flavor on these things like split weapons. Just make them improved versions of the t1 destroyers with the ability to deploy bubbles. And make them able to fight stuff instead of dying to well-fit assault frigates, their primary role should still be support against small tackle from the enemy. If the sabre works and is your role model, why don't you make a hybrid, laser and missile version of it?
Well a well fit AF shoudl be able to kill an interdictor if it can catch it. But the interdictor should not die to interceptors. OTherwise the AF would be used for what? They cannot catch the interceptors or T1 frigates that are the other things that can be killed by them (not counting stupid cruisers that forget to fit the neut) "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Meyr
SiN Corp
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 15:20:00 -
[372] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Until there is a second set of T2 Destroyers I think you should have these stick to their racial primary weapons.
Amarr = Lasers Gallente = Hybrids Caldari = Missiles Minmatar = Projectiles
And don't try to say that the Eris is already a Hybrid boat, its not. You said you were doing away with split weapon systems and you have done that except on select Navy Faction Ships, which is fine. T2 symbolizes specialization so do not split its weapons up.
Other than that it seems solid to me, maybe a shield resist bonus on the Flycatcher to compete with the Heretic's armor resist bonus? What would you think about them scrapping the Eris as a gunboat, and turning it into a T2 version of the Algos produced by CreoDron?
QFT! Both above options make perfect sense.
Fozzie - get rid of the split weapon bonus on the Eris, unless you're willing to make ALL of the high slots turrets or launchers.
This **** design you've given us here just shows you're limiting your design philosophy by what you see SOME people doing ("10MN plated fleet fits") as opposed to keeping with your long-standing policy of getting rid of split weapon systems.
You want more Gallente missiles, just like you've done with Amarr? Fine, we'll deal with it. Just don't do it like this. The Eris already has the worst reputation as a PVP Interdictor, and your changes, even with you giving it the highest 'Glass Cannon' DPS ON PAPER, do absolutely nothing to make it able to survive a confrontation with anything tougher than a 1-v-1 with SOME of the T1 frigates, and almost NONE of the T2's.
ALL of the Interdictors need to be balanced to where they can HUNT Interceptors with a reasonable chance of winning 1-v-1, but will probably NOT outlast a fight, 1-v-1, with an Assault Frigate, in addition to their role as bubble droppers. |
Vanilla Vila
labour anal
6
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Posted - 2013.10.24 18:03:00 -
[373] - Quote
Interdictor should not be immune to bubble but should deploy them like bombers, either forward or backward, with a small delay.
Now they are underpowered HIC. Why fly a dictor when HIC is better (It can take a few hits anyway where the dictors are a suicide boat).
With a forward bubble, they aren't trapped in, it becomes a matter of skill to put the bubble correctly and then trying to warp off before you reach the edge, etc.
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Johan March
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
64
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Posted - 2013.10.24 18:15:00 -
[374] - Quote
Vanilla Vila wrote:Interdictor should not be immune to bubble but should deploy them like bombers, either forward or backward, with a small delay.
Now they are underpowered HIC. Why fly a dictor when HIC is better (It can take a few hits anyway where the dictors are a suicide boat).
With a forward bubble, they aren't trapped in, it becomes a matter of skill to put the bubble correctly and then trying to warp off before you reach the edge, etc.
It would also go hand in hand with the class of bomb launcher, etc.
To be fair, dictors can do a lot of things that hictors cannot. Bubble a gate, jump through, bubble the other side. Bubble 100km away from a gate to slow down a pursuing opponent fleet (gtfo and cloak). The ability to drop a bubble and move is a significant distinction.
My favorite idea from this thread is to use the new destroyer hulls (Algos, Corax, Talwar, I forget the Amarr one) as "fleet dictors" with bonuses to agility and survivability, but low dps and "skirmish dictors" with solid dps and perhaps slightly more ehp / sig radius than their T1 counterparts.
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xttz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
241
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 19:51:00 -
[375] - Quote
Vanilla Vila wrote:Interdictor should not be immune to bubble but should deploy them like bombers, either forward or backward, with a small delay. ...
With a forward bubble, they aren't trapped in...
You could achieve a similar effect with less coding work by just introducing the Small Micro Jump Drive. Copy the existing module and just tweak some stats (maybe it only shunts the ship forward 50km a time, but spools up much quicker). Dictors could hit and run very effectively like that, and be far less suicidal.
Then just make the Interdictors skill affect the MJD cooldown. |
Blodhgarm Dethahal
Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n
47
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 20:13:00 -
[376] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:Blodhgarm Dethahal wrote:Until there is a second set of T2 Destroyers I think you should have these stick to their racial primary weapons.
Amarr = Lasers Gallente = Hybrids Caldari = Missiles Minmatar = Projectiles
And don't try to say that the Eris is already a Hybrid boat, its not. You said you were doing away with split weapon systems and you have done that except on select Navy Faction Ships, which is fine. T2 symbolizes specialization so do not split its weapons up.
Other than that it seems solid to me, maybe a shield resist bonus on the Flycatcher to compete with the Heretic's armor resist bonus? What would you think about them scrapping the Eris as a gunboat, and turning it into a T2 version of the Algos produced by CreoDron?
Defintely plausable.. a drone boat means that it does not require guns to deal damage, freeing up fitting for easier Double Bubble fits. So yes.. a drone Eris I could defintely get behind. -Bl+¦d
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Kasife Vynneve
Nourwolf Corporation Fortis Et Certus
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 23:34:00 -
[377] - Quote
With the Tech 2 specialized tilt shouldn't these be less focused on doing damage and more on the movement control aspect. Leave dealing more damage to a second line of T2 Destroyer's or as mentioned in another thread make the other hull a minor command ship with damage potential. Interdictor's should have a role in the low sec enviroment Much in the same way that a Stealth bomber can still be effective even with out its bomb in low sec |
Prometheus Exenthal
mnemonic.
673
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 01:14:00 -
[378] - Quote
The number of people here crying about split weapon systems is hilarious. Yes, lets hate on the Eris because it'll track well and despite being down mids for tackle, will slap frigs around just fine with the new rocket bonuses. It's far and away the highest damage output. Plus If you don't like rockets, the ship still has the 2nd highest output after the Sabre. Not to mention, the application bonuses are at the destroyer level, so you will get them by default.
The Flycatcher has always been good, and a bit of an underdog. Now it's better, and for anything but a bubble ****, the FC outperforms the Heretic.
The Heretic should not have lost its explosion velocity bonus. IMO, if tanking is the flavor of it, drop the range bonus and give it the explosion velocity bonus back.
The Sabre is a Sabre.
A VOTE FOR SPLIT WEAPONS IS A VOTE FOR A DIVERSITY! LONG LIVE SPLIT WEAPONS -áwww.promsrage.com |
LakeEnd
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
51
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 07:30:00 -
[379] - Quote
These are T2 ships, so they are supposed to be specialized, right? So why not make them specially good at tackling and surviving while doing that (speed, agility, low sig, t2 resists and what not). If you are worried about turning them to wtfbbqpwn machines that screw up balance of other ships, then remove some turrets/launchers for all I care. Make them good at their job, which is tackling fleets, offensive ability is distant second priority. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2536
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 08:53:00 -
[380] - Quote
LakeEnd wrote:These are T2 ships, so they are supposed to be specialized, right? So why not make them specially good at tackling and surviving while doing that (speed, agility, low sig, t2 resists and what not). If you are worried about turning them to wtfbbqpwn machines that screw up balance of other ships, then remove some turrets/launchers for all I care. Make them good at their job, which is tackling fleets, offensive ability is distant second priority. The 'T2 are more specialised' concept has largely gone out of the window at this point. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |
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gascanu
Bearing Srl.
44
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Posted - 2013.10.25 09:26:00 -
[381] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:LakeEnd wrote:These are T2 ships, so they are supposed to be specialized, right? So why not make them specially good at tackling and surviving while doing that (speed, agility, low sig, t2 resists and what not). If you are worried about turning them to wtfbbqpwn machines that screw up balance of other ships, then remove some turrets/launchers for all I care. Make them good at their job, which is tackling fleets, offensive ability is distant second priority. The 'T2 are more specialised' concept has largely gone out of the window at this point.
hmm, true, but interdictors/hictors are "THE most specialized t2 ships in game, so that should still count for something, i hope |
Maximus Andendare
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
707
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 14:04:00 -
[382] - Quote
You guys, the Minmatar Fleet ships and the proposed Ares have shown that a split weapon, selectable between the two, system can work well and give fitting and combat choices to the individual pilot. The issue with the Eris is its a throwback to a dated split weapon system where a pilot is forced to fit two weapon types on the ship, hurting the ship overall and making damage application sporadic and confusing.
All that would have to be adjusted is the turret and launcher hard points need to be increased equally and the bonuses adjusted so that EITHER missiles OR turrets could be equally effective when chosen as the weapon system of choice. But the key here is choice. The pilot gets to choose which to use and not be forced to fit both, or some combination thereof, in some Frankenstein fit. Step onto the battlefield, and you're already dead, born again at the end of the battle to live on and fight another day.
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Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
359
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 07:18:00 -
[383] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:You guys, the Minmatar Fleet ships and the proposed Ares have shown that a split weapon, selectable between the two, system can work well and give fitting and combat choices to the individual pilot. The issue with the Eris is its a throwback to a dated split weapon system where a pilot is forced to fit two weapon types on the ship, hurting the ship overall and making damage application sporadic and confusing.
All that would have to be adjusted is the turret and launcher hard points need to be increased equally and the bonuses adjusted so that EITHER missiles OR turrets could be equally effective when chosen as the weapon system of choice. But the key here is choice. The pilot gets to choose which to use and not be forced to fit both, or some combination thereof, in some Frankenstein fit.
Agreed, if they want to Frankenstein they can. But otherwise they can go with a straight flush if they choose to as well. |
Catherine Laartii
Knights of Xibalba
37
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 18:27:00 -
[384] - Quote
Maximus Andendare wrote:You guys, the Minmatar Fleet ships and the proposed Ares have shown that a split weapon, selectable between the two, system can work well and give fitting and combat choices to the individual pilot. The issue with the Eris is its a throwback to a dated split weapon system where a pilot is forced to fit two weapon types on the ship, hurting the ship overall and making damage application sporadic and confusing.
All that would have to be adjusted is the turret and launcher hard points need to be increased equally and the bonuses adjusted so that EITHER missiles OR turrets could be equally effective when chosen as the weapon system of choice. But the key here is choice. The pilot gets to choose which to use and not be forced to fit both, or some combination thereof, in some Frankenstein fit.
Since they're not likely to change it into a drone boat, +1 to this. They should either do the same thing that they did with the scythe fleet issue and give strong bonuses for both while lacking a full round of slots (5/5 for guns & missiles), or go with 6/6. Speaking of the former, I'm still confused why the Navy Osprey got stuck with what it did despite having the same damage bonus as the scythe fleet issue, only kinetic. But that's a problem for another thread.
a 6/6 fitting for guns & missiles would be acceptable as long as it came with appropriate bonuses. The 7th hardpoint on the heretic is weird and unnecessary, and I think they should just drop a highslot for a low on that one and the flycatcher if they want to improve fitting. They'd have to use full t2 resists on them all, but give the flycatcher and heretic an extra low from a high. That and the heretic and flycatcher getting respective resist bonuses would be perfect, turning them into the 'combat' interdictors and the eris and sabre the 'attack' variants.
This would balance them all out appropriately, and provide proper differentiation and 'flavor' to them all. Although, I would still like to see a t2 CreoDron algos in place of the eris in its current incarnation, though... |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
736
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 04:06:00 -
[385] - Quote
@Fozzie and friends: I hope you guys are going to post your second draft soon. And I hope it's good. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2540
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 07:22:00 -
[386] - Quote
There probably won't be time for a third draft between now and release day, so the second draft has to be good. CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
737
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 09:37:00 -
[387] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:There probably won't be time for a third draft between now and release day, so the second draft has to be good.
I know :\
I'm not too optimistic, but hey, you never know. |
Johan March
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 13:54:00 -
[388] - Quote
I'd almost rather wait to a post-expansion update and do it right then half-ass it because of ~deadlines~. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
7917
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:28:00 -
[389] - Quote
OP now updated with version 2. We've incorporated the one launcher per ship idea, added a new MWD sig penalty reduction and increased the resists (now EAF level T2 resists) and HP of all the dictors. We've also updated the Eris to the latest version of the Roden philosophy, giving it pure hybrid bonuses to Optimal, Tracking and Damage.
To compensate for the survivability changes we're dropping the warp speed a touch to 6.75au/s. We've also moderated the changes to the agility of the Heretic and Sabre.
As for the bubble launcher, we have it set with a 3 round clip, 5 second duration, and 60 second reload. One per ship. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1436
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 14:31:00 -
[390] - Quote
Good changes fozz!!! There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
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