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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Catherine Laartii
Atavism Archaeological Institute
35
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Posted - 2013.10.16 10:04:00 -
[211] - Quote
Elindreal wrote:Somethings look good some things look a little... confused.
If you're giving the 4% armour resist to the heretic I get the feeling that its role is that of a fleet vessel. Therefore given the racial dispositions I'd recommend some changes such as...
Heretic - 4% to armour 7 highs 5 launcher slots 3 mids 4 lows Since fleet usage doesn't require a full set of weapons and the extra low can provide added survivability.
Flycatcher - 4% to shield 7 highs 5 launcher slots 5 mids 2 lows Same idea as above. Less damage for that extra low that the hull could really use.
Sabre - more or less the same 8 highs 7 turret slots 4 mids 2 lows They are more skimishy and get the extra weapon slots
Eris - 8 highs 6 turrets 6 launchers 3 mids 3 lows Also skirmishy and a bit more versatile than the others.
I would also argue that the sabre and eris get a tad lower sig radius than their caldari and amarr counterparts.
Tldr; Caldari and Amarr get 4% resist a level. Sacrifice a high for extra low. Lose a few launcher hardpoints. Minmatar and Gallente have the full 8 highs and a full rack of weapons. Lower sig radius. Eris gets 3/3 mid/lows
+1 I would submit burnt offerings to fozzie to make this so. |
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Tormented of Destiny The Kadeshi
146
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Posted - 2013.10.16 10:25:00 -
[212] - Quote
i'm not sold on these changes....
a few general remarks: bolstering up things already stated in this thread
i don't see why the rate of bubble launching of interdiction sphere launchers has to be a hull bonus. if you want to promote, that more skilling is necessary to launch bubbles faster, make the rate of bubbleling part of the interdictor / graviton physics skill itself and introduce a survivability bonus as the 4th hull bonus.
bringing me to the second point: survivability of interdictors. they have none. that is the whole issue with this ship class. dictors are primary even before recons and those are thought of as OP. i can live with them not having an super awesome tank but there should be a way to survive if you know what you are doing. currently your only way of surviving a decent fight is when your opponent does not know what he is doing. A nice thing would be a 4th hull bonus promoting survivability in one or the other way and/or reduce their sigs to the range of their t1 counter-parts.
why do we need 3/4 (!) of the dictors shooting missiles? especially if you remove distinction between light missile and rocket boats. I can understand leaving the missiles on heretic and flycatcher, although the different sides of missiles could get more reinforced, being steady, good dmg very well projected but stuck to kinetic - flycatcher - and the dmg flexibilty in this case for the heretic. so give the eris another focus than missiles and change the developing corporation accordingly.
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Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
692
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Posted - 2013.10.16 10:27:00 -
[213] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:(...) FASTER AND MORE AGILE THAN ANY of the other races!!!(...) This is wrong. CCP have stated before that Minmatar are the fastest, not the most agile by nature. Gallente are more agile due to their natural-esque design [citation needed] and need the agility to combat the slower speed and shorter range of their weapons to be able to slingshot into range.
Caldari and Amarr are bricks in their respective types of tanking.
Speed: Minmatar > Gallente Agility: Gallente > Minmatar
By design |
Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
23
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Posted - 2013.10.16 10:36:00 -
[214] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote: Speed: Minmatar > Gallente Agility: Gallente > Minmatar By design
Yep they changed it a few years back, and I agree with that, but why aren't you adding mass to it? All ships use MWD or AB, if speed advantage is lost only with that module, something is VERY wrong. Not being able to be the faster not even in a straight line? wtf
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1623
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Posted - 2013.10.16 10:47:00 -
[215] - Quote
Scatim Helicon wrote:I see Roden Shipyards' design team are still inhaling paint fumes. Impeach Jacques Roden! (Split weapons systems suck) |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
344
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Posted - 2013.10.16 11:12:00 -
[216] - Quote
Wow, thank goodness the Eris did keep its ability to field 1 light drone....
That light drone is such an awesome help to its DPS or even using a single EC-300 to escape...when you're tackled and tanking hard...
...... Of course, I'm being sarcastic - The split weapon system Eris is fundamentally a terrible idea. Give it 7 turret / 7 launchers or even 5/5 and a full 25 bandwidth or something.
Right now it is still a pile. Cheers. |
Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2496
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Posted - 2013.10.16 11:38:00 -
[217] - Quote
The Heretic appears to be a better missile platform than the Flycatcher :-( CCP: Not out to ruin your game, out to ruin their game. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
367
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Posted - 2013.10.16 12:15:00 -
[218] - Quote
honestly some of the slot layouts are really debilitating bearing in mind their role. i totally agree with Grath about the 50% MWD sig reduction on dictors.
The Flycatcher is seriously hindered by that single low slot, it needs +1, with possibly a -2 slots in highs. Eris having 2 mids is an issue especially without a tracking bonus of any kind. 3 mids 4 lows with maybe a -2 in highs.
consider the more widely used interdictors are the ones that arent hamstrung by bad low slot layouts. if the idea is to have each ship have the same number of combined mids and lows, but a different layout is to try force some kind of difference, theres a better way to do it. |
Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
140
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Posted - 2013.10.16 12:21:00 -
[219] - Quote
Urkhan Law wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote: Speed: Minmatar > Gallente Agility: Gallente > Minmatar By design
Yep they changed it a few years back, .... Indeed. Back then they also decided that Caldari would be agile, but slow. Which makes the 6.36 align time of the Flycatcher vs the 6.41 align time of the Sabre quite ok. And puts the 6.21 align time of the Heretic - with a lower mass than the Sabre - firmly in the realm of WTF. Oh look, a 3 headed monkey.
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Mra Rednu
Black Watch Guard
419
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Posted - 2013.10.16 12:25:00 -
[220] - Quote
Salvage drone on the Eris ? |
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Wu Phat
Ugandan Hit Squad DARKNESS.
39
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Posted - 2013.10.16 12:45:00 -
[221] - Quote
NO MORE SPLIT DAMAGE ON SHIPS !!!!!!!! The Eris is A Blaster Boat, So It Should Only Have Blasters. Blasphemer Blasphemer Blasphemer Blasphemer Blasphemer !!!!!!!!!!! |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
692
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Posted - 2013.10.16 12:46:00 -
[222] - Quote
Mra Rednu wrote: Salvage drone on the Eris ? For your enemy to scoop to dronebay to salvage your wreck? How nice of you! |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
582
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Posted - 2013.10.16 13:04:00 -
[223] - Quote
Hannott Thanos wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:(...) FASTER AND MORE AGILE THAN ANY of the other races!!!(...) This is wrong. CCP have stated before that Minmatar are the fastest, not the most agile by nature. Gallente are more agile due to their natural-esque design [citation needed] and need the agility to combat the slower speed and shorter range of their weapons to be able to slingshot into range. Caldari and Amarr are bricks in their respective types of tanking. Speed: Minmatar > Gallente Agility: Gallente > Minmatar By design
Yet the minamtar one here is the LEAST agile. LEss than amarr!!!
And No in th epast minmatar were the more agile. When i started this game that was the official statement. TWHen they added gallente more agility tahn minmatar was when they started loosing the races identities! "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
115
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Posted - 2013.10.16 13:09:00 -
[224] - Quote
I really dislike the loss of the tracking bonus on the Eris.
Is there any reason why you want to force everyone to use missiles?
I personally have no skill for missiles/rockets/torps at all and i dont appreciate it at all that you try to force me to train that even though i am a fan of gallente ships. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction
582
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Posted - 2013.10.16 13:18:00 -
[225] - Quote
Urkhan Law wrote:Hannott Thanos wrote: Speed: Minmatar > Gallente Agility: Gallente > Minmatar By design
Yep they changed it a few years back, and I agree with that, but why aren't you adding mass to it? All ships use MWD or AB, if speed advantage is lost only with that module, something is VERY wrong. Not being able to be the faster not even in a straight line? wtf
And that is when they started doing it WRONG! Minamtar shoudl never have gained so much mass and more HP. THey shoudl ahve been kept at their INTERESTIGN PLACE. FRAGILE and nimble.
THat change for me was the most stupid thing gamebalance wise CCP ever made.
Increasing mass on minamtar ship to coutner their speed made the whole speed advantage NULL and VOID.
That is HORRIBLE game design by standarization "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Lidia Caderu
Cobalt Academy Catastrophic Uprising
19
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Posted - 2013.10.16 13:48:00 -
[226] - Quote
beside split damage on eris it also has a single drone... Why?? remove it or give 20/40 for drones. |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
693
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Posted - 2013.10.16 13:52:00 -
[227] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:That is HORRIBLE game design by standarization You know what is also horrible game design? Having four races, and only one of them being worth flying because all the other ones suck in comparison because the most important attribute in the game is speed. |
Garan Nardieu
Moira. Villore Accords
57
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Posted - 2013.10.16 13:58:00 -
[228] - Quote
Just a post in support for fixing the abomination that proposed Eris is. Make it a pure hybrid or rocket boat, give folks a choice of how they gonna fly it by providing 6 or 7 weapon slots for hybrids and rockets, just don't leave that useless split weapons relic of the past kind of thing on it. |
GreGh Rakrot
Rionnag Alba The Fourth District
23
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Posted - 2013.10.16 14:06:00 -
[229] - Quote
BORG HELLinHEAVEN wrote:Make interdictors imune to their own bubles :), not imune to others bubles
Make it so. And lower their sig radius.
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Vulfen
Snuff Box
67
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Posted - 2013.10.16 14:06:00 -
[230] - Quote
Flycatcher and Heretic look like good prospects for small gangs, especially around factional warfare , the Sabre will still be the boss of bubbling nothing else can match the speed.
ERIS will still be the cheep choice and can still match all the others when it comes to being a dedicated bubbler |
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Lidia Caderu
Cobalt Academy Catastrophic Uprising
19
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Posted - 2013.10.16 14:19:00 -
[231] - Quote
ERIS: 8H 2M 4L, 6Turret 2Launcher
No drones
bonuses: per destrroyer level: +5% to hubrid turret damage +10% to hubrid turret tracking
per interdictor level: +10% to armor hp +10% bubble reload rate |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
562
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Posted - 2013.10.16 14:24:00 -
[232] - Quote
HERETIC - Carthum
Amarr Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Energy Turret damage 7.5% bonus to Energy Turret Tracking
Interdictors Bonuses: 4% bonus to armor resistances per level 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level 15% reduction in penalty to MWD sig radius
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 6H, 3M, 5L; 5 turrets, Fittings: 60(+3) PWG, 240(+10) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 600 / 900 / 800 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 750(+187.5) / 375s() / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 310(+11) / 3.5(-0.019) / 1280000(-91000) / 6.21(-0.48) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 50km / 525 / 7(+1) Sensor strength: 12(+2) Radar Signature radius: 58
Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
562
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Posted - 2013.10.16 14:27:00 -
[233] - Quote
FLYCATCHER
Caldari Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile kinetic damage per level (was 5%) 10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile Velocity per level
Interdictors Bonuses: 4% bonus to shield resistances 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level 15% reduction in penalty to MWD sig radius
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 3L; 5 launchers ,1 turret Fittings: 60(+4) PWG, 270(+5) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 900 / 600 / 650(-1) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 650(+150) / 325s(-8.33) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 315 / 3.4(+0.53) / 1350000(-222000) / 6.36s(+0.1) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 475 / 7 Sensor strength: 14(+2) Gravimetric Signature radius: 60 Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
23
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Posted - 2013.10.16 14:28:00 -
[234] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:That is HORRIBLE game design by standarization They had to do it, speed was out of control at the time, they nerfed mass hard.
The idea is Minmatar is faster, Galente is agile (so it can slingshot) and a bit less mass so it can accelerate faster (and take advantage of the slingshot). The thing is Minmatar needs to keep range against some AND get closer against others even when using the same weapon system, they can't be bricks unable to turn and unable to accelerate, it should exist a perfect spot here, please find it. Fine tune your mass/agility values (and not only in this ship class).
Hannott Thanos wrote:(...)the most important attribute in the game is speed. Nope, it's the combination of the 3, speed, mass, agility. That's why they keep base speed 5m higher, and then they nerf it with mass/agility. You have more armor, everybody install plates, they have even more armor, positions between them didn't change. You have more speed, everybody install a mwd, you don't have more speed anymore. The 5m/sec base speed advantage in so many ships? It doesn't exist at all, it looks that there isn't fine tuning at the moment, just rushed numbers.
This is getting out of whack. I think they have a new script, they input the number of slots, and it spits out a ship, only reason for that Eris. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
562
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Posted - 2013.10.16 14:30:00 -
[235] - Quote
ERIS , Duvolle labs
Gallente Destroyer Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret falloff per level 10% bonus to small hybrid tracking per level
Interdictors Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level 15% reduction in penalty to MWD sig radius
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 6H, 4M, 4L; 5 turrets, 1 launcher Fittings: 64(+2) PWG, 210(+16) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 700 / 800 / 850 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 700(+231.25) / 350s(+37.5) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 305(-3) / 3.52(+0.145) / 1250000(-213000) / 6.1s(-1.11) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 15 / 30 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 500 / 7 Sensor strength: 13(+2) Magnetometric Signature radius: 55 Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Harvey James
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
562
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Posted - 2013.10.16 14:32:00 -
[236] - Quote
Sabre
Minmatar Destroyer Bonuses: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret Damage per level 10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret tracking speed per level
Interdictors Bonuses: 10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret falloff per level 10% bonus to Interdiction Sphere Launcher rate of fire per level 15% reduction in penalty to MWD sig radius
Role bonus: Can fit Interdiction Sphere Launchers
Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 3L; 5 turrets, 1 launcher Fittings: 58 PWG, 230(+2) CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 825 / 750 / 700 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap/s) : 600(+162.5) / 300s(+8.333) / 2(+0.5) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 320 / 3.6(+0.132) / 1285000 / 6.41s(+0.23) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 0 / 0 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 45km / 550 / 7(+1) Sensor strength: 11(+2) Ladar Signature radius: 50 Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name AB's need a buff-á like a big mass reduction ... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
Jumpshot244
Control-Space DARKNESS.
34
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Posted - 2013.10.16 14:40:00 -
[237] - Quote
Didn't you guys say you were getting rid of damage type specific buffs? So why is the Eris getting missile bonus to all types while flycatcher gets kinetic only?
Yes the split weapon idea sucks, but tons of people have already brought that up.
You guys have a serious case of one hand doesn't know what the other is doing.
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Mioelnir
Cataclysm Enterprises Easily Offended
140
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Posted - 2013.10.16 14:43:00 -
[238] - Quote
Vulfen wrote:...the Sabre will still be the boss of bubbling nothing else can match the speed. With only 10m/s less base speed, more lows and better mass and agility the Heretic would like a word with you.
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Vanilla Vila
labour anal
5
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Posted - 2013.10.16 14:54:00 -
[239] - Quote
Jumpshot244 wrote:Didn't you guys say you were getting rid of damage type specific buffs? So why is the Eris getting missile bonus to all types while flycatcher gets kinetic only?
Yes the split weapon idea sucks, but tons of people have already brought that up.
You guys have a serious case of one hand doesn't know what the other is doing.
LOL
+1 |
Sh'iriin
DEFCON. The Initiative.
3
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Posted - 2013.10.16 15:49:00 -
[240] - Quote
Quote:FLYCATCHER 10% bonus to Rocket and Light Missile kinetic damage per level (was 5%)
ERIS 10% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret, Rocket, and Light Missile damage per level (was 5% bonus to thermal rocket and light missile damage)
ERROR... |
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