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Krios42
Unified Combatants Against ALL Authorities
0
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Posted - 2013.10.16 01:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
G'day. Not sure if this has been aforementioned in a previous thread, but I couldn't find it so I thought I would post it myself
The auto-cannon animation needs to be revamped! At the moment, the auto-cannon appears to fire a short burst partway through the module's cycle - when common sense would suggest that an auto-cannon would be a constantly firing, a spray of rounds (a behaviour also indicated by the AC models, most of which feature rotating barrels). I don't know how difficult this is from a development point of view, but from my un-informed point of view it seems like it would be rather easy . It wouldn't require any change in the behaviour of the models - a damage per volley is simple now the damage done throughout the firing cycle. Ideally, there would be no interruption between cycles in the continues firing, it would simple stop and the end of the last cycle.
Repeating artillery could also be changed, and should behave similar to light/rapid light launchers (firing single shots similar to the smaller version, just much faster!). However, unless you want to create some confusion over their behaviour (when animation doesn't match the cycles), this would require a change in the module attributes - perhaps increase the RoF and reduce the damage, without changing the overall dps?
As a side note, I also think the way in which weapons always hit a few specific spots on an enemy ship looks stupid and takes away from the game, but I assume that it is for a very good reason, and it is difficult to factor in a random variable which selects from a wider range of points.
Feedback would be great! Let me know why all the things I have suggested are not possible from a technical point of view |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3443
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Posted - 2013.10.16 01:40:00 -
[2] - Quote
Krios42 wrote:The auto-cannon animation needs to be revamped!
... (snip)...
Ideally, there would be no interruption between cycles in the continues firing, it would simple stop and the end of the last cycle. Give this is a purely aesthetic idea, I have no opinion either way for it. I always assumed it was just bad to rapid fire a weapon that uses man to tank-sized hunks of metal in a sustained way. I would think that the weapon gets fairly hot and needs slight breaks to maintain overall firing rate.
But that's just my lolRP reasoning.
Krios42 wrote:Repeating artillery could also be changed, and should behave similar to light/rapid light launchers So many people have complained about this. Just chalk it up to poor naming choice (rather than trying to rebalance an already [more or less] balanced weapon system) and leave it at that.
Krios42 wrote:As a side note, I also think the way in which weapons always hit a few specific spots on an enemy ship looks stupid and takes away from the game, but I assume that it is for a very good reason, and it is difficult to factor in a random variable which selects from a wider range of points. There is a simple reason for this.
The server sees your ship as nothing more than a sphere. Your "front" is defined as your trajectory (or last known trajectory) and turret fire is merely a line from the point of origin to the destination (missiles are something else entirely).
So what you are seeing is nothing more than the client's graphics applying what is going on in the server in predetermined ways. More graphical "contact points" could maybe be added... but I'm not sure how this would affect client-side performance (it wouldn't affect server performance). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Krios42
Unified Combatants Against ALL Authorities
1
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Posted - 2013.10.16 07:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
I realise that the repeating arti idea is difficult due to balancing issues.
I do however think that what might seem like a simple aesthetic change to an animation could make the game a whole lot more immersive. AC do kind of lack in visual 'impressiveness' when compared to other weapon systems. |
Sarah Stallman
International Unification
13
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Posted - 2013.10.16 10:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't use projectiles, so forgive me if I misunderstand something. Regarding the repeating artillery, the aesthetic problem is that it fires one shot per cycle, when flavor says it should fire four? Couldn't you just have the animation show four shots over the duration of the cycle? |
Velicitia
Emergent Avionics
1703
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Posted - 2013.10.16 12:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pretty much the "problem" with ACs is that they're essentially gatling guns ...
So, I think the OP is saying you should see "pop" "pop" "pop" "pop" throughout the cycle with "short weapon trails" for each "round" (think tracer fire ... googlefu is weak this morning and I can't get a decent clip of one ... stupid "make it pretty for TV" giving a half second of weapon fire), you see an animation more like hybrids or (beam) lasers "pop" (wait for cycle end) "pop" (cycle) with longer tracers.
Pulse lasers are probably the closest to what the OP wants, but IIRC the trail is "long" and solidly connects your ship to the target.
Best guess using ascii hyphen/dash is your round, dots are for empty space):
Beams -> (you) ------------------(target) (Pulse are the same, but flash on/off several times) Artillery/Hybrids/current AC -> (you)----------.......(target) progressing to (you)......--------....(target) then hitting the target.
Proposed AC --> (you)- ...-...-...-..-...-...-...-..-(target) for as long as the guns are active (animation plays nearly the full cycle) One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia |
Sarah Stallman
International Unification
14
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Posted - 2013.10.16 22:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Yes, that part was perfectly clear. I was referring to the repeating artillery. |
Krios42
Unified Combatants Against ALL Authorities
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 22:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
I hadn't checked this thread, sorry. What I am suggesting for repeating artillery is pretty much what you described - the behaviour of the module would probably not need to change. In my opinion, it should fire single, loud shots similar to the cruiser sized artillery, except perhaps 4 or 6 (or more) per cycle, spread out evenly. It just doesn't make sense to have what appears to be dozens of rounds fired in a short burst a the start of the cycle (for AC and Repeating artillery).
Just so you don't point it out, i'm well aware they are in the same class I'm just discussing them from a purely aesthetic point of view. |
Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
202
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Posted - 2013.10.17 22:10:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hmm it would make since that there would be some slag time in firing in terms of aesthetics. As mentioned, lobbing all those rounds via mechanics is bound to make something get hot. Ever tried touching the barrel of a machine gun?
It would be nice to show the animation in several burst though and not just one little poof |
Krios42
Unified Combatants Against ALL Authorities
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 22:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
I don't feel it would cause too much of a performance issue, as long as the mechanic itself didn't run extremely quickly (which it won't). The hit system still functions in the same way, except that the visible 'trail' stays present throughout the cycle (similar to mining lasers) and the animation would change from a small burst to a continuous firing.
I think the most difficult thing from a technology point of view would be creating a seamless transition between animations as cycles start/end (I don't know anything about it, other than that they haven't managed it with mining lasers, remote reps, or tractor beams).
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Angeal MacNova
XDraconis CombineX
87
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Posted - 2013.10.17 22:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
.50 cal MG 7.62mm GPMG (C-6 in the Canadian Military) 5.56mm LMG (C-9 in the Canadian Military)
All fired in bursts. Multiple reasons for this. Accuracy, life of the barrel, ammo conservation, heat, etc.
The 25mm bushmaster used on the LAVs are fired in 3 to 5 round bursts
Even the Dylan is fired in bursts.
Remember that the above are all air cooled. There is no air in space so how do the auto cannons even cool down? Purhaps by some kind of cooling system at the barrel's base? |
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Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
202
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Posted - 2013.10.17 22:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:.50 cal MG 7.62mm GPMG (C-6 in the Canadian Military) 5.56mm LMG (C-9 in the Canadian Military)
All fired in bursts. Multiple reasons for this. Accuracy, life of the barrel, ammo conservation, heat, etc.
The 25mm bushmaster used on the LAVs are fired in 3 to 5 round bursts
Even the Dylan is fired in bursts.
Remember that the above are all air cooled. There is no air in space so how do the auto cannons even cool down? Purhaps by some kind of cooling system at the barrel's base?
Actually space is colder than atmospheric air because there is not any ozone layers over your ship if its explosed to space it should get rather cool haha |
Krios42
Unified Combatants Against ALL Authorities
1
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Posted - 2013.10.17 22:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm not really approaching this from a practical point of view... at least I have never heard of a massive golden battleship firing laser weapons roaming around earth...
I just think it would look better and suite the appearance better.
But if you want to go down that road, most large multi-shot weapons (such as cannons on aircraft, or the multi barrel AA mobile armoured weapons) fire in what might be considered to be a burst but in reality is fully automatic fire (they might fire 70-80 rounds per second, for 4-5 seconds). |
Angeal MacNova
XDraconis CombineX
87
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Posted - 2013.10.17 23:08:00 -
[13] - Quote
Octoven wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:.50 cal MG 7.62mm GPMG (C-6 in the Canadian Military) 5.56mm LMG (C-9 in the Canadian Military) All fired in bursts. Multiple reasons for this. Accuracy, life of the barrel, ammo conservation, heat, etc. The 25mm bushmaster used on the LAVs are fired in 3 to 5 round bursts Even the Dylan is fired in bursts. Remember that the above are all air cooled. There is no air in space so how do the auto cannons even cool down? Purhaps by some kind of cooling system at the barrel's base? Actually space is colder than atmospheric air because there is not any ozone layers over your ship if its explosed to space it should get rather cool haha Ah no... When a hot barrel cools, it does so through thermal conductivity. The thermal conductivity of a vacuum is 0. When you hear that space is only 3 K in the shade or out in deep space. The 3 K is the temperature of the cosmic back ground radiation. The vaccum of space would feel neither warm nor cold. That's not to say that a warm body in deep space wouldn't cool down eventually (black body radiation) but this would take time. Much much longer than it would if we were to go skinny dipping in a vat of helium II which sits at a temperature of about 3 k (just like the temperature of cosmic radiation) but has a thermal conductivity of over 100,000 k. I'd go as far as to say that if you were to jettison a rat or mouse out into space on the night side of the Earth and left it there for a few hours, it would still show up as having body heat if you were to view it with infra red imaging. This could alternatively be done with a glowing hot piece of metal, which after a few hours, may even still be glowing while in the Earths atmosphere, the same piece of metal would be cool enough to touch. |
Krios42
Unified Combatants Against ALL Authorities
1
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Posted - 2013.10.18 00:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Octoven wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:.50 cal MG 7.62mm GPMG (C-6 in the Canadian Military) 5.56mm LMG (C-9 in the Canadian Military) All fired in bursts. Multiple reasons for this. Accuracy, life of the barrel, ammo conservation, heat, etc. The 25mm bushmaster used on the LAVs are fired in 3 to 5 round bursts Even the Dylan is fired in bursts. Remember that the above are all air cooled. There is no air in space so how do the auto cannons even cool down? Purhaps by some kind of cooling system at the barrel's base? Actually space is colder than atmospheric air because there is not any ozone layers over your ship if its explosed to space it should get rather cool haha Ah no... When a hot barrel cools, it does so through thermal conductivity. The thermal conductivity of a vacuum is 0. When you hear that space is only 3 K in the shade or out in deep space. The 3 K is the temperature of the cosmic back ground radiation. The vaccum of space would feel neither warm nor cold. That's not to say that a warm body in deep space wouldn't cool down eventually (black body radiation) but this would take time. Much much longer than it would if we were to go skinny dipping in a vat of helium II which sits at a temperature of about 3 k (just like the temperature of cosmic radiation) but has a thermal conductivity of over 100,000 k. I'd go as far as to say that if you were to jettison a rat or mouse out into space on the night side of the Earth and left it there for a few hours, it would still show up as having body heat if you were to view it with infra red imaging. This could alternatively be done with a glowing hot piece of metal, which after a few hours, may even still be glowing while in the Earths atmosphere, the same piece of metal would be cool enough to touch.
That's a fair point - the weapon would no double cool much faster in an ocean of cooling atmosphere, however, this is kind of off topic and completely irrelevant as we are discussing a fictional hyper advanced technology :) |
Angeal MacNova
XDraconis CombineX
87
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Posted - 2013.10.18 00:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
All well and good until the point you said...
Quote:when common sense would suggest that an auto-cannon would be a constantly firing, a spray of rounds (a behaviour also indicated by the AC models, most of which feature rotating barrels).
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Krios42
Unified Combatants Against ALL Authorities
1
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Posted - 2013.10.18 00:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
I'm sure you are well aware that there is a big difference between common sense and scientifically accuracy. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3460
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Posted - 2013.10.18 03:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sarah Stallman wrote:I don't use projectiles, so forgive me if I misunderstand something. Regarding the repeating artillery, the aesthetic problem is that it fires one shot per cycle, when flavor says it should fire four? Couldn't you just have the animation show four shots over the duration of the cycle? For reference... the OP is talking about this weapon here: 800mm Heavy 'Scout' Repeating Artillery I
Functionally it's an autocannon... but the name implies artillery. Rather than change the stats (and have balancing issues) it would be best to change its name so people like the OP don't have have OCD twitches over it. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Krios42
Unified Combatants Against ALL Authorities
1
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Posted - 2013.10.18 04:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: ... so people like the OP don't have have OCD twitches over it.
This is true. It may seem like a stupid change to push, but I think that it is little improvements like this that can get CCP the extremely well polished game they should be looking for as they approach the 11 year mark. |
Johann Rascali
Crunchy Crunchy Zero Hour Alliance
47
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Posted - 2013.10.18 06:15:00 -
[19] - Quote
Krios42 wrote:At the moment, the auto-cannon appears to fire a short burst partway through the module's cycle - when common sense would suggest that an auto-cannon would be a constantly firing, a spray of rounds (a behaviour also indicated by the AC models, most of which feature rotating barrels).
And then you notice how many of the lasers have silly rotating barrels.
I can see having a cluster of barrels rotating like a minigun, but so many weapons in this game have one big fat barrel spinning for no reason. |
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