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Lea Swiftfoot
Callide Vulpis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
22
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Posted - 2013.10.17 03:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have just finished reading a lot of threads on how cloaking is overpowered and there is no fix for afk cloaking and stuff like that. Here are my thoughts and my idea on this sensitive topic.
Well, cloaking is a vital part of the game. I do feel that it is a very capable tool in the fact that it can't be tracked down and provides valuable information for people using it for scouting/bombing purposes. That being said, I believe that there should be a special case created for the discovery of a cloaked vessel.
Currently when a ship gets close to another (assuming that one is cloaked) the cloaking device will shut off, and that's fine and dandy, but that's at an extremely close range and no good scouter in his right mind will ever get within those parameters. I believe a new ring of "discover-ability" should be added, say, within the modest range of 100km. Once a ship passes within that 100km bubble its sensors will pick up a distinct anomaly that can't identified. It's also unable to pinpoint where that anomaly is coming from either, only that its figuratively within 100km of the ship. Only the pilot of that ship will see that information and may choose to relay that to other players via the local channel or whatever form of communication he/she so desires.
This creates a rather interesting situation, for now the one who discovered the anomaly not only knows he/she is being watched, but that there is something within 100km of him/her-self that he/she may now be able to expose and only has a short amount of time to act before that knowledge is known to the other party. After an appropriate amount of time the person who is under cloak is relayed a delayed message saying that his/her position has been compromised. This creates a fun game of cat and mouse in which active players take the stage. The discoverer can now actively pursue his/her lead on the anomaly, while the discovered can actively relocate. Afk Cloakers however, shall not be so lucky as they won't be there to notice the warning on their screen, and, depending on how the active player reacts, may be uncloaked and killed.
Here is my solution to the "overpowered" cloaking device. Making it possibly fun for the active players, while discouraging inactivity. There is always room for improvement, however I feel like this could be a temporary if not permanent solution. Problem solved? Tell me yes or no in the comments. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
336
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Posted - 2013.10.17 03:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well... space is a really *big* place, so with safe spots you'll still be very hard-pressed to find determined AFK cloakers (and I'm not commenting on that aspect one way or the other). I think if you want to allow cloaked ships to be discovered you need a high-slot module that provides an extreme sensor range boost (I'm not sure what a reasonable distance would be), at the expense of the same sensor and weapons penalty that cloaked ships incur (ie: this would nerf sensor range and resolution, delay target locking and prevent weapons firing for a set period). So you might want fast, dedicated "destroyers" for this task.
I'm not keen on the idea of any ship being able to detect cloaked ships (even a hint of cloaked ships) without a module and skill training (cloak, obviously). I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Lea Swiftfoot
Callide Vulpis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
22
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 03:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
I could see where you are coming from with the whole skills and modules thing and as I have stated there is always room for improvement. You can rest assured I have read and re-read my post many times before posting, and compared to most ideas, this one doesn't sound so un-achievable/un-implimentable. I believe that what I have here, is, at the very least, a small stepping stone that will finally help with this so called "problem". |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
1236
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 04:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lea Swiftfoot wrote:I have just finished reading a lot of threads on how cloaking is overpowered and there is no fix for afk cloaking and stuff like that. Here are my thoughts and my idea on this sensitive topic.
Well, cloaking is a vital part of the game. I do feel that it is a very capable tool in the fact that it can't be tracked down and provides valuable information for people using it for scouting/bombing purposes. That being said, I believe that there should be a special case created for the discovery of a cloaked vessel.
Currently when a ship gets close to another (assuming that one is cloaked) the cloaking device will shut off, and that's fine and dandy, but that's at an extremely close range and no good scouter in his right mind will ever get within those parameters. I believe a new ring of "discover-ability" should be added, say, within the modest range of 100km. Once a ship passes within that 100km bubble its sensors will pick up a distinct anomaly that can't identified. It's also unable to pinpoint where that anomaly is coming from either, only that its figuratively within 100km of the ship. Only the pilot of that ship will see that information and may choose to relay that to other players via the local channel or whatever form of communication he/she so desires.
This creates a rather interesting situation, for now the one who discovered the anomaly not only knows he/she is being watched, but that there is something within 100km of him/her-self that he/she may now be able to expose and only has a short amount of time to act before that knowledge is known to the other party. After an appropriate amount of time the person who is under cloak is relayed a delayed message saying that his/her position has been compromised. This creates a fun game of cat and mouse in which active players take the stage. The discoverer can now actively pursue his/her lead on the anomaly, while the discovered can actively relocate. Afk Cloakers however, shall not be so lucky as they won't be there to notice the warning on their screen, and, depending on how the active player reacts, may be uncloaked and killed.
Here is my solution to the "overpowered" cloaking device. Making it possibly fun for the active players, while discouraging inactivity. There is always room for improvement, however I feel like this could be a temporary if not permanent solution. Problem solved? Tell me yes or no in the comments.
Only when I can have a solution to that overpowered docking thing. Maybe a module that undocks all AFK dockers.
Oh, and how exactly do you know a person is cloaked in your system?
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Sarah Stallman
International Unification
14
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Posted - 2013.10.17 05:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Make a special probe that can only find cloaked "anomalies" to within a hundred-ish km, and a pulse generator that decloaks everything in 50km. Make the ammo for the pulse bulky and somewhat costly to produce. If you think they're within 50km of you, pay the half a million to decloak 'em. If not they aren't? Oops. |
suid0
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
77
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 08:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
tl;dr; is:
OP wants to go about their carebearing even with afk cloakies in system but wants to be able to tell when the cloaky lands on grid (within 100km) and is no longer AFK but is slowboating to the them getting ready to tackle so he knows when to warp out.
the entire enemy support fleet is dead except for one interdictor a titan could easily finish off with drones -á--áCommander Ted |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
1828
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 09:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sarah Stallman wrote:Make a special probe that can only find cloaked "anomalies" to within a hundred-ish km, and a pulse generator that decloaks everything in 50km. Make the ammo for the pulse bulky and somewhat costly to produce. If you think they're within 50km of you, pay the half a million to decloak 'em. If not they aren't? Oops.
Then every gatecamp would have one of the decloakers... |
MEZZA Creire-Geng
TEC-NOLOGY Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
16
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 09:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
you make camped cloaky haulers very sad.. do you want that on your conscious |
Sarah Stallman
International Unification
15
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 10:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Sarah Stallman wrote:Make a special probe that can only find cloaked "anomalies" to within a hundred-ish km, and a pulse generator that decloaks everything in 50km. Make the ammo for the pulse bulky and somewhat costly to produce. If you think they're within 50km of you, pay the half a million to decloak 'em. If not they aren't? Oops. Then every gatecamp would have one of the decloakers...
Then give it a spool up, too. If it takes 10-15 seconds to spool, your cloaky hauler will be long gone. The point is to have a mechanic that a skilled player could use, not a godlike hack to make cloaks useless. |
Samoth Egnoled
Infinitech Catastrophic Uprising
24630
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 10:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
If you have a 100km 'bubble' around your ship that is the detect range for your anomalies, firstly if the cloaker gets within 100km he will already know he's been detected. Secondly it will be nigh on impossible for the hunter to decloak him, because we cant place markers in space as reference points, and it would only tell you when you hit that 100km range and not if you get closer (not that i am suggesting this in anyway).
You would be better of implementing an anomaly with the cloak. so randomly within a 10 minutes-10 hour period of afk (no activity) the cloak would shut off, meaning pretty much constant activity is needed to maintain the cloaking 'field' and that a short bio break would still be possible without being overpowered.
This is not my suggestion to solve afk cloaking, i am just trying to explain how complex the issue currently is.
Sam |
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Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
155
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Posted - 2013.10.17 10:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
I would remove the 2000m decloak to 0 (Bump to decloak) and also remove the Charakter out of Localchat as long he is cloaked (or writing while cloaked). |
Sarah Stallman
International Unification
15
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 10:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lephia DeGrande wrote:I would remove the 2000m decloak to 0 (Bump to decloak) and also remove the Charakter out of Localchat as long he is cloaked (or writing while cloaked).
The only way that could ever be a good thing is if another means of detecting and/or decloaking ships was added. The 2000 meter thing makes it difficult but not impossible to burn down a cloaky if you know exactly where it is. This should continue to be true.
Alternatively, have the bump distance be a function of the cloaked ship's velocity. A stopped ship you have to get within a hundred meters or so, a ship at full speed as much as, say, 10km. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15587
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 10:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Lea Swiftfoot wrote:I have just finished reading a lot of threads on how cloaking is overpowered and there is no fix for afk cloaking and stuff like that. Here are my thoughts and my idea on this sensitive topic. I don't believe you have read it and understood much of anything. If you had, then you would have included the mechanic that plays a major part in AFKing.
Go back to the current thread on the subject and read it again. This time try and see all of the mechanics being used and then make your suggestion.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
538
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 10:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
My signature is itching again... Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
193
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 11:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
suid0 wrote:tl;dr; is: OP wants to go about their carebearing even with afk cloakies in system but wants to be able to tell when the cloaky lands on grid (within 100km) and is no longer AFK but is slowboating to the them getting ready to tackle so he knows when to warp out.
QFT
Cloaked ships are only dangerous when they're about to decloak, point your hump and unleash the bees. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
1237
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sarah Stallman wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Sarah Stallman wrote:Make a special probe that can only find cloaked "anomalies" to within a hundred-ish km, and a pulse generator that decloaks everything in 50km. Make the ammo for the pulse bulky and somewhat costly to produce. If you think they're within 50km of you, pay the half a million to decloak 'em. If not they aren't? Oops. Then every gatecamp would have one of the decloakers... Then give it a spool up, too. If it takes 10-15 seconds to spool, your cloaky hauler will be long gone. The point is to have a mechanic that a skilled player could use, not a godlike hack to make cloaks useless.
Right like having a scout in the next system over isn't viable to get around this. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Angeal MacNova
XDraconis CombineX
84
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 18:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
No input for 10min, you log out of the game.
There you go. No more AFK cloaking, or AFK anything else for that matter.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
1239
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 19:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:No input for 10min, you log out of the game.
There you go. No more AFK cloaking, or AFK anything else for that matter.
No, because it is to the detriment of players who are not AFK, but input is not required. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
200
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 19:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
To be honest cloaking is already a perfectly balanced feature. Not everything in eve has an anti or counter module nor should it. If cloakers were able to fire under cloak I could understand. The only issue here is your potential safety being compromised because someone is in system cloaked. Sorry to burst your bubble but that happens without cloakers too, ever heard of log in traps?
Cloaking is a passive way to get around and scout its used to gather information, most covert ships pay that price by reduced DPS and defenses. If a bomber is giving you issues than you clearly haven't learned to deal with them yet. What you are asking for is a way to potentially decloak someone, this is a bit rubbish give the level of firepower and defenses coverts have. If you wish to add in a function to seek out cloaked ships then I think its only balanced to give cloaked ships better DPS and Tank to at least have a fighting chance. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
1241
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 19:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Octoven wrote:To be honest cloaking is already a perfectly balanced feature. Not everything in eve has an anti or counter module nor should it. If cloakers were able to fire under cloak I could understand. The only issue here is your potential safety being compromised because someone is in system cloaked. Sorry to burst your bubble but that happens without cloakers too, ever heard of log in traps?
Cloaking is a passive way to get around and scout its used to gather information, most covert ships pay that price by reduced DPS and defenses. If a bomber is giving you issues than you clearly haven't learned to deal with them yet. What you are asking for is a way to potentially decloak someone, this is a bit rubbish give the level of firepower and defenses coverts have. If you wish to add in a function to seek out cloaked ships then I think its only balanced to give cloaked ships better DPS and Tank to at least have a fighting chance.
Or be removed from local so now they really are covert. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
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Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
200
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 19:51:00 -
[21] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Octoven wrote:To be honest cloaking is already a perfectly balanced feature. Not everything in eve has an anti or counter module nor should it. If cloakers were able to fire under cloak I could understand. The only issue here is your potential safety being compromised because someone is in system cloaked. Sorry to burst your bubble but that happens without cloakers too, ever heard of log in traps?
Cloaking is a passive way to get around and scout its used to gather information, most covert ships pay that price by reduced DPS and defenses. If a bomber is giving you issues than you clearly haven't learned to deal with them yet. What you are asking for is a way to potentially decloak someone, this is a bit rubbish give the level of firepower and defenses coverts have. If you wish to add in a function to seek out cloaked ships then I think its only balanced to give cloaked ships better DPS and Tank to at least have a fighting chance. Or be removed from local so now they really are covert.
Yeah but see thats my point exactly they are even visible so they are indeed giving up the fact that they are in the system, again another minus to claokers. Yet we live with that just so we can cloak. The OP simply is asking for more control over when we can cloak and when we cant. |
bloodknight2
Talledega Knights PLEASE NOT VIOLENCE OUR BOATS
298
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 20:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
My solution to AFK cloaking.
If you are AFK cloaked, CCP calls your mom and tell her how bad you are at Eve and how you make the poor nullbear crying. |
Angeal MacNova
XDraconis CombineX
85
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:No input for 10min, you log out of the game.
There you go. No more AFK cloaking, or AFK anything else for that matter.
No, because it is to the detriment of players who are not AFK, but input is not required.
Really? Please do tell who these players would be...
Doing anything combat related, you shouldn't be afk.
Mining? Sure, it can take longer than 10 min to fill your ore hold. I just got into a mining barge (I had to switch since I start university courses next month on top of having a full time job, I needed to switch to a more passive profession which will be mining and trading) and with a cycle time of 2k every 3 min I fill a 24k hold in 45 minutes.
Since I have to empty my ore hold every 45 min, I can't really be AFK and I don't see a problem providing some kind of input once within a 10 min period. Using the ingame web browser, doing a survey scan to update the list/quantities, browsing the market, trading, turning pirate wrecks blue, looting the officer pirate wrecks, etc.
Gate camping? Not an AFK activity
Station camping? Again, not an AFK activity
Traveling? Autopilot sucks and you're asking to be ganked. Be at the keyboard to tell your ship to warp to 0m and jump.
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Friggz
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
164
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:24:00 -
[24] - Quote
Read it. Judged it.
Another horrible idea by someone with no experince flying a cloaked ship that would absolutely destroy almost every application of cloaking vessels in exchange for giving carebears the ability to exploit null-sec without the associated risks. The Evolution of the Stealth Bomber, and the story of the first Black Ops Capital Kill in EvE.
https://truestories.eveonline.com/ideas/969 |
Roime
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
3605
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 21:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Didn't read and judged it
terrible idea
Notify-á-á You cannot do that while warping. |
Octoven
Phoenix Productions Headshot Gaming
202
|
Posted - 2013.10.17 22:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Roime wrote:Didn't read and judged it
terrible idea
Haha i love how you judge something you havent read XP |
Lea Swiftfoot
Callide Vulpis Curatores Veritatis Alliance
26
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
The only reason I have suggested something like this is because if this is supposed to be a simulation game, then, theoretically, wouldn't you be able to detect an anomaly on your sensors? Unless a module is "perfect" there needs to be a distinct signature/downside. Also the 100km is just a ball park number and by no means was meant to be the actual number, it was just provided for reference purposes. |
Xcom
Quantum Vortex Battalion
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
This wouldn't solve anything. Cloaked ships could still sit at 150km then warp to you when the time was right. They could still strike without any warning. |
Qweasdy
Absolute Massive Destruction Cult of War
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 18:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
Octoven wrote:To be honest cloaking is already a perfectly balanced feature. Not everything in eve has an anti or counter module nor should it. If cloakers were able to fire under cloak I could understand. The only issue here is your potential safety being compromised because someone is in system cloaked. Sorry to burst your bubble but that happens without cloakers too, ever heard of log in traps?
Cloaking is a passive way to get around and scout its used to gather information, most covert ships pay that price by reduced DPS and defenses. If a bomber is giving you issues than you clearly haven't learned to deal with them yet. What you are asking for is a way to potentially decloak someone, this is a bit rubbish give the level of firepower and defenses coverts have. If you wish to add in a function to seek out cloaked ships then I think its only balanced to give cloaked ships better DPS and Tank to at least have a fighting chance.
Well to be fair a recon ship can fit for 50k dps and a million ehp, it's called a cyno. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Ex Cinere Scriptor
3039
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 19:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
There are no stealth ships playing EVE, except in wormholes.
If your name is listed in local, then people know you are present. If people know you are present, then you must also realize they will behave differently than they would had they been unaware. Some pilots will seek safety, while others will prepare for possible conflict. Either way, they react to you.
If people see your name listed long beyond a typical person's ability to remain awake, or alert, they will begin to doubt that you are actually playing the game attentively. Some people bluff by staying online just so they can be seen in local. Will anyone call that bluff, when they actually ARE present and able to follow up? Gosh, it's almost like playing a game!
Rock - Paper - Scissors Rock - The PvE player Scissors - The genuinely AFK cloaked player Paper - The player mistaken for being AFK, but paying attention By playing Rock, the PvE pilot is hoping that name in local represents scissors, but they won't know unless it engages them.
If you are getting your intel from a chat channel, you are being given something for free. Take it or leave it, but don't complain about the quality of something you never earned in the first place. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
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