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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
MeBiatch
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1396
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:39:00 -
[811] - Quote
A Research Alt wrote:Goonswarm owns more than half the R64s in existence, so I don't see why they'd siphon their own belongings.
really this is goonswarm we are talking about... remember alts provide anonymity so how would the top goon brass know its one of thier line members chewing the fat? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... Winter Expansion new ship request |
Powers Sa
691
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:40:00 -
[812] - Quote
Zakhin Desver wrote: Trying to get enough nerfs to the module so you don't lose your moongoo superiority? Oh you....
Wastage must exists, destroying resources from the game is a good sink for money printers. Without waste factor, only small alliances with not enough numbers will be harmed. This expansion is supposed to empower the weak, not to settle the superiority of the powerful.
That's not even a real rebuttal. lol |
Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:41:00 -
[813] - Quote
ROFL, redesigning a module that still didn't see the light to serve your own purposes |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4856
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:45:00 -
[814] - Quote
Powers Sa wrote:Zakhin Desver wrote: Trying to get enough nerfs to the module so you don't lose your moongoo superiority? Oh you....
Wastage must exists, destroying resources from the game is a good sink for money printers. Without waste factor, only small alliances with not enough numbers will be harmed. This expansion is supposed to empower the weak, not to settle the superiority of the powerful.
That's not even a real rebuttal. Does it matter, GOON There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Kenneth Skybound
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
65
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:46:00 -
[815] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
a) reduce waste factor from 20% to 10%
b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.
Let me know what you think.
a) Fair enough. So long as there is still significant losses.
b) Absolutely not. These things are not hard to find nor hard to kill. They do come at a cost to the thief which racks up really quick. A cov ops filled with 20 of these is going to cost the player 200million or so simply to deploy them, assuming all get deployed. That's 10 starbases (2 per starbase) which can be checked more easily than the thief placed the siphons.
If someone wants to take a blockade runner FILLED with these (multiple billions of ISK) then go right ahead. Those multiple billions of ISK worth of siphons will quite rapidly be gone if the POS owning corp/alliance actually checks on their stuff. It really shouldn't be all that hard for someone to find these in due course.
Don't give in to those who cry about needing to be on 23/7 or camping every POS with instacanes. They miss the point of corporate assets (POS is on a corporate, not personal level), allies and large 1 hour cycle times on something detectable by directional scan!
Limiting the number deployed simply isn't needed. Cost vs reward does that and frankly 10m gives a suitable cost. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4856
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:47:00 -
[816] - Quote
Miner Hottie wrote:Expressing my understanding of your point and position. Don't agree with it, but eh, CCP is determined to ignore us and implement this and then they will nerf it to oblivion once goons complete the cycle of deliberate abuse that has started now that they have warned CCP about it being OP. Oh you noticed the cycle ...
Still working on drone assist, it appears they are PERFECTLY BALANCED and cannot be abused There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
49
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:48:00 -
[817] - Quote
I am not reading all the pages to see if this has been mentioned.
Why would these siphons be accessible by anyone and everyone? If the owner of the unit deployed is noted in the info window why would the siphon not have secure container properties thus allowing a password? This would force the siphon owner to empty it daily for it to be effective. It also means the POS owner would be unable to recover stolen material before destroying it.
Having a siphon password would make the unit much more effective at theft and make the theft more meaningful. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4856
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:49:00 -
[818] - Quote
Tzar Sinak wrote:I am not reading all the pages to see if this has been mentioned.
Why would these siphons be accessible by anyone and everyone? If the owner of the unit dropped is noted in the info window why would the siphon not have secure container properties thus allowing a password? This would force the siphon owner to empty it daily for it to be effective. It also means the POS owner would be unable to recover stolen material before destroying it.
Having a siphon password would make the unit much more effective at theft and make the theft more meaningful. I must support this. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:49:00 -
[819] - Quote
Kenneth Skybound wrote:CCP SoniClover wrote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
a) reduce waste factor from 20% to 10%
b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.
Let me know what you think. a) Fair enough. So long as there is still significant losses. b) Absolutely not. These things are not hard to find nor hard to kill. They do come at a cost to the thief which racks up really quick. A cov ops filled with 20 of these is going to cost the player 200million or so simply to deploy them, assuming all get deployed. That's 10 starbases (2 per starbase) which can be checked more easily than the thief placed the siphons. If someone wants to take a blockade runner FILLED with these (multiple billions of ISK) then go right ahead. Those multiple billions of ISK worth of siphons will quite rapidly be gone if the POS owning corp/alliance actually checks on their stuff. It really shouldn't be all that hard for someone to find these in due course. Don't give in to those who cry about needing to be on 23/7 or camping every POS with instacanes. They miss the point of corporate assets (POS is on a corporate, not personal level), allies and large 1 hour cycle times on something detectable by directional scan! Limiting the number deployed simply isn't needed. Cost vs reward does that and frankly 10m gives a suitable cost.
Applause |
Benjamin Hamburg
SnaiLs aNd FroGs Verge of Collapse
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:49:00 -
[820] - Quote
xttz wrote:I
- Remove waste as it currently works, a single siphon pulls 50% of material from a silo each tick. Up to 2 siphons can be anchored per 'end of chain' module on grid. They will automatically leech from the one that is physically nearest to them.
- When a siphon is destroyed, the full contents within are dropped back into the silo it originally came from.
- A siphon is emptied by a ship by clicking an 'empty' option while within 5km. This ejects any materials inside into a jetcan, but deducts a certain amount of waste first (much like POCOs). A nearly-empty siphon will have zero waste, a full siphon has 90% waste.
- The API reports the total contents of a silo plus any siphons leeching from it, meaning that it's only possible to detect loss if material is removed from the siphon.
I don't agree. Waste should (and logically do) occur during the syphon action and not after. With your idea, if you just destroy the syphon without empty it before, there is no waste at all since all the content is returned in the silo with no others drawback.
+1 for the API idea though, it's seem to be the most logical way to do it.
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Alner Greyl
Black Mesa Inc Legion of xXDEATHXx
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:52:00 -
[821] - Quote
Looks like a not funny joke.
May be it's cool for expensive moons. But what about common moons? For example. I need to mine something very cheap because I need for my reactions. So some1 will need 10 mil to buy a siphon and take my moon mats. So without my online 24 hours a day I can't save even my cheap moons? And I'll need to offline all my pos - really cool situation.
I don't want to spend 24 hours in game to protect pos from siphons. And yeah, CCP go on with cloak afk ships. You are making everything to play EVE in cloak. Most of this siphons will be installed with cloak ships. We can't have a defence from cloak ship and you are adding more weapons to them.
My post looks like a carebear crying, but it's my time and I hate cloak wars. It makes fun only for 1 side who is in cloak and have a big cargo. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4856
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:52:00 -
[822] - Quote
Benjamin Hamburg wrote:xttz wrote:I
- Remove waste as it currently works, a single siphon pulls 50% of material from a silo each tick. Up to 2 siphons can be anchored per 'end of chain' module on grid. They will automatically leech from the one that is physically nearest to them.
- When a siphon is destroyed, the full contents within are dropped back into the silo it originally came from.
- A siphon is emptied by a ship by clicking an 'empty' option while within 5km. This ejects any materials inside into a jetcan, but deducts a certain amount of waste first (much like POCOs). A nearly-empty siphon will have zero waste, a full siphon has 90% waste.
- The API reports the total contents of a silo plus any siphons leeching from it, meaning that it's only possible to detect loss if material is removed from the siphon.
I don't agree. Waste should (and logically do) occur during the syphon action and not after. With your idea, if you just destroy the syphon without empty it before, there is no waste at all since all the content is returned in the silo with no others drawback. +1 for the API idea though, it's seem to be the most logical way to do it. Simply treat exploding like an empty command then. But the stuff goes nowhere. (or in a jetcan I suppose, AFTER waste) There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
TZeer
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:52:00 -
[823] - Quote
Oh the tears the tears!!
Brings a glee on my face.
Boho, you actually have to live in your space where you have moons. Oh the cruelty....
LOL!! |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4856
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:53:00 -
[824] - Quote
It's critical that the moment you set up the siphon, resources begin to be irrecoverably lost. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:53:00 -
[825] - Quote
Benjamin Hamburg wrote:xttz wrote:I
- Remove waste as it currently works, a single siphon pulls 50% of material from a silo each tick. Up to 2 siphons can be anchored per 'end of chain' module on grid. They will automatically leech from the one that is physically nearest to them.
- When a siphon is destroyed, the full contents within are dropped back into the silo it originally came from.
- A siphon is emptied by a ship by clicking an 'empty' option while within 5km. This ejects any materials inside into a jetcan, but deducts a certain amount of waste first (much like POCOs). A nearly-empty siphon will have zero waste, a full siphon has 90% waste.
- The API reports the total contents of a silo plus any siphons leeching from it, meaning that it's only possible to detect loss if material is removed from the siphon.
I don't agree. Waste should (and logically do) occur during the syphon action and not after. With your idea, if you just destroy the syphon without empty it before, there is no waste at all since all the content is returned in the silo with no others drawback. +1 for the API idea though, it's seem to be the most logical way to do it.
I see the API as a D-Scan with range enough to cover the entire universe. "Let me check the API, OH, somebody is leeching moongoo from 10 jumps away, better to remove that **** from my POS, thankfully I don't have to patrol my 20 POS continuously" |
Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:55:00 -
[826] - Quote
Alner Greyl wrote:Looks like a not funny joke. May be it's cool for expensive moons. But what about common moons? For example. I need to mine something very cheap because I need for my reactions. So some1 will need 10 mil to buy a siphon and take my moon mats. So without my online 24 hours a day I can't save even my cheap moons? And I'll need to offline all my pos - really cool situation. I don't want to spend 24 hours in game to protect pos from siphons. And yeah, CCP go on with cloak afk ships. You are making everything to play EVE in cloak. Most of this siphons will be installed with cloak ships. We can't have a defence from cloak ship and you are adding more weapons to them. My post looks like a carebear crying, but it's my time and I hate cloak wars. It makes fun only for 1 side who is in cloak and have a big cargo.
POS -> Corporate assets, not personal
Seriously, you don't know how to decloak and trap a ship with your pos, bubbles and some cans? Go to wormhole space to see it yourself please. |
Simrod
z-inc.
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:56:00 -
[827] - Quote
A pos owner will now start mining some worthless stuff of the moos if its there and react the valuable stuff imediately so it wont be syphoned. Tthe syphons go for the raw useless moon goo first ..
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mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1980
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:57:00 -
[828] - Quote
Benjamin Hamburg wrote:xttz wrote:I
- Remove waste as it currently works, a single siphon pulls 50% of material from a silo each tick. Up to 2 siphons can be anchored per 'end of chain' module on grid. They will automatically leech from the one that is physically nearest to them.
- When a siphon is destroyed, the full contents within are dropped back into the silo it originally came from.
- A siphon is emptied by a ship by clicking an 'empty' option while within 5km. This ejects any materials inside into a jetcan, but deducts a certain amount of waste first (much like POCOs). A nearly-empty siphon will have zero waste, a full siphon has 90% waste.
- The API reports the total contents of a silo plus any siphons leeching from it, meaning that it's only possible to detect loss if material is removed from the siphon.
I don't agree. Waste should (and logically do) occur during the syphon action and not after. With your idea, if you just destroy the syphon without empty it before, there is no waste at all since all the content is returned in the silo with no others drawback. +1 for the API idea though, it's seem to be the most logical way to do it.
The drawback ought to come because you're out to steal my stuff, not because of some automated system that punishes me for not monitoring the POS 24/7. If the contents of the silo are still there by the time I come to get it, either you left and may never have had intent to steal my stuff in the first place, or I beat you in ~~~honourable space combat~~~ when you were defending it to get my stuff back. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1366
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 16:58:00 -
[829] - Quote
Zakhin Desver wrote:thankfully I don't have to patrol my 20 POS continuously" Thankfully I don't have to waste my time flying from A to B to C every hour just to see that everything is okay and can focus on fighting people (you know, the actual fun part of EVE) when they try to steal from me.
Oh wait, it would work like that if the implementation made sense. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
83
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:00:00 -
[830] - Quote
TZeer wrote:Oh the tears the tears!!
Brings a glee on my face.
Boho, you actually have to live in your space where you have moons. Oh the cruelty....
LOL!! Uh
did you just denigrate someone for not "living in their space"
while being in one of the most icebergtastic nullsec alliances in the game This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
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Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:00:00 -
[831] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Benjamin Hamburg wrote:xttz wrote:I
- Remove waste as it currently works, a single siphon pulls 50% of material from a silo each tick. Up to 2 siphons can be anchored per 'end of chain' module on grid. They will automatically leech from the one that is physically nearest to them.
- When a siphon is destroyed, the full contents within are dropped back into the silo it originally came from.
- A siphon is emptied by a ship by clicking an 'empty' option while within 5km. This ejects any materials inside into a jetcan, but deducts a certain amount of waste first (much like POCOs). A nearly-empty siphon will have zero waste, a full siphon has 90% waste.
- The API reports the total contents of a silo plus any siphons leeching from it, meaning that it's only possible to detect loss if material is removed from the siphon.
I don't agree. Waste should (and logically do) occur during the syphon action and not after. With your idea, if you just destroy the syphon without empty it before, there is no waste at all since all the content is returned in the silo with no others drawback. +1 for the API idea though, it's seem to be the most logical way to do it. The drawback ought to come because you're out to steal my stuff, not because of some automated system that punishes me for not monitoring the POS 24/7. If the contents of the silo are still there by the time I come to get it, either you left and may never have had intent to steal my stuff in the first place, or I beat you in ~~~honourable space combat~~~ when you were defending it to get my stuff back.
Honourable space combat? I guess we have to redefine that word. Specially since the battle will never be even. On the other hand, forcing players to check their POS will even things. The powerful is strong but static, the weak is stealthy and puny. If you make the weak only puny.... well
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Zakhin Desver wrote:thankfully I don't have to patrol my 20 POS continuously" Thankfully I don't have to waste my time flying from A to B to C every hour just to see that everything is okay and can focus on fighting people (you know, the actual fun part of EVE) when they try to steal from me. Oh wait, it would work like that if the implementation made sense.
So you want to own 20 POS, do PVP and own everybody in the universe.... Everything at the same time. That makes sense |
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc. The Fourth District
262
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:03:00 -
[832] - Quote
Nice work CCP! Pity we did not have those during tech era, but they will be useful even today, especially as some r64 are going at almost half the price of thech before OTEC creation. Jessica Danikov > EVE is your real life. the rest is fantasy. caught in a corporation. no escape from banality. open up yours eyes, peer through pod good and seeeeeee. I'm just a poor pilot, I need no sympathy. because I'm easy scam, easy go, little isk, little know. anyway the solar wind blows... |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4858
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:06:00 -
[833] - Quote
Querns wrote:TZeer wrote:Oh the tears the tears!!
Brings a glee on my face.
Boho, you actually have to live in your space where you have moons. Oh the cruelty....
LOL!! Uh did you just denigrate someone for not "living in their space" while being in one of the most icebergtastic nullsec alliances in the game Heh... There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:07:00 -
[834] - Quote
Sofia Wolf wrote:Nice work CCP! Pity we did not have those during tech era, but they will be useful even today, especially as some r64 are going at almost half the price of thech before OTEC creation.
BTW, I don't think the price of tech II will be so affected as some preachers of the apocalypse are announcing here. The wastage and the losses of material hauling towards Jita will affect it, yes, but the rest will be in the central trade hub one way or the other. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4858
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:08:00 -
[835] - Quote
Sofia Wolf wrote:Nice work CCP! Pity we did not have those during tech era, but they will be useful even today, especially as some r64 are going at almost half the price of thech before OTEC creation. Would've been handy to toss those on all of PL's tech, to be sure. There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Arrendis
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
64
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:21:00 -
[836] - Quote
Zappity wrote: Tell me, what would the public goon response be to a change that was good for smaller groups but bad for CFC?
Good question. Got an example of a change that a group of 50, 100, 500, or 1,000 can make use of that a group of 30,000 can't make use of more effectively?
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Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
759
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:23:00 -
[837] - Quote
Querns wrote:TZeer wrote:Oh the tears the tears!!
Brings a glee on my face.
Boho, you actually have to live in your space where you have moons. Oh the cruelty....
LOL!! Uh did you just denigrate someone for not "living in their space" while being in one of the most icebergtastic nullsec alliances in the game
Honestly, though, if somebody doesn't make this same dumbshit post on every page, I will be disappointed, so good on you, ironic NCdot guy. |
Krios Ahzek
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
953
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:23:00 -
[838] - Quote
There's really nothing that accomplishes this except giving ships in a fleet stacking penalties to EHP and damage, which would be completely insane and dumb.
-áThough All Men Do Despise Us |
Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:26:00 -
[839] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Zappity wrote: Tell me, what would the public goon response be to a change that was good for smaller groups but bad for CFC?
Good question. Got an example of a change that a group of 50, 100, 500, or 1,000 can make use of that a group of 30,000 can't make use of more effectively?
There's a little misunderstanding here. Maybe goons (or any other big alliance) can spam these syphons on posses of little alliances and all that. But the real little group of players usually don't own a territory, much less a POS (unless it is in wormhole space) Whatever the case, patrolling a single POS or one single system is much easier than doing the same all over a nullsec region. Can they lose moon materials or polymers like the big alliances? Yes and no. Yes, because there will be times when they are not watching (ie, at work, sleeping...), but it will be much easier for them to watch their only POS
Small alliances count as medium size group of players. |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
760
|
Posted - 2013.10.18 17:28:00 -
[840] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:It's critical that the moment you set up the siphon, resources begin to be irrecoverably lost.
In fact, when t fills up, it should just jetcan the stuff and start filling up. Of course after 2 hours the jetcan goes poof. Remember the siphon could be emptied by anyone anyway.
I think it should work like the loot pi+Ĥata in data/relic sites, another really fun game mechanic CCP thought of all by themselves!
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