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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Miner Hottie
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
31
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 03:44:00 -
[1111] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Miner Hottie wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:So reality is; pos siphons will be used to shut down the small operators while those with most of the decent moons remain pretty much untouchable and are very likely to actually profit from this whole thing..
Well done CCP, you've given the major power blocks another foot hold on total domination of eve. By siphons being a real mechanic in the game, means it will create player traffic. This means the opportunity for combat increases. Any POS operators that rely on some 3rd party tool to play the game for them will be the ones to suffer the most. Any groups that actually inhabit the space they have POS in will be just fine as they will have eyes in the system to see when a siphon is deployed. I can't believe how heavily some groups rely on programs to play the game for them and go out of their way to make sure AFK game play and mechanics remain a thing for EVE. Pathetic. Except the siphon griefers will be in nulli interceptors or stabbed blockade runners or cloaky recons, generating rather indifferent volumes of combat. I also love they way you seem to think moon mining is AFK. I reckon a survey on player burn out in Eve would show two groups with the highest level of burn out being CEOs and POS monkeys, with FCs possibly being up there as well. I also find it ironic that a senior figure in NC., which has substantially outsourced the act living its own space, i.e. has gone beyond being AFK in its own space, is chastising people for running POS, which it thinks is AFK. It's ironic, but so are your tears. HOWEVER, I do hear that, in the name of CONTENT, the CFC's blackops pilots are living in the ncdor renter space. SO it is in fact lived in, and quite active in terms of pvp
True, but I doubt Marlona would know about that seeing as his AFK from his space.
It's all about how hot my mining lasers get. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4889
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 08:12:00 -
[1112] - Quote
I'd be interested to know about future application of the "API will lie to you" precedent.
Just think of the possibilities to make you have to check everything in-game. A skill to make your market orders api more accurate ... There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Sojobo Otaku
Otaku Industries Space Turtles
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 08:24:00 -
[1113] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:I'd be interested to know about future application of the "API will lie to you" precedent.
Just think of the possibilities to make you have to check everything in-game. A skill to make your market orders api more accurate ... This feature would be completely useless if the API didn't lie. I do however think the size should probably be bigger in the cargohold. If the API didn't lie though then POS owners would instanly know someone is stealing from them and thus the feature would be a total waste of time. |
Yeep
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
387
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 08:40:00 -
[1114] - Quote
Sojobo Otaku wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:I'd be interested to know about future application of the "API will lie to you" precedent.
Just think of the possibilities to make you have to check everything in-game. A skill to make your market orders api more accurate ... This feature would be completely useless if the API didn't lie. I do however think the size should probably be bigger in the cargohold. If the API didn't lie though then POS owners would instanly know someone is stealing from them and thus the feature would be a total waste of time.
Why? Are you scared the POS owners might make you defend your completely AFK ISK siphon? |
Sgt Ocker
State War Academy Caldari State
13
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 09:21:00 -
[1115] - Quote
Yeep wrote:Sojobo Otaku wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:I'd be interested to know about future application of the "API will lie to you" precedent.
Just think of the possibilities to make you have to check everything in-game. A skill to make your market orders api more accurate ... This feature would be completely useless if the API didn't lie. I do however think the size should probably be bigger in the cargohold. If the API didn't lie though then POS owners would instanly know someone is stealing from them and thus the feature would be a total waste of time. Why? Are you scared the POS owners might make you defend your completely AFK ISK siphon? LOL LOL LOL +1 X3 A goon using logic, you sir have made my day. It was worth getting up this morning for that profound comment. I thank you
|
Chigurh Friendo
Stay Frosty.
9
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 11:48:00 -
[1116] - Quote
CCP SoniClover wrote:Hey guys, thanks for all the good feedback. Couple of things we're contemplating:
b) have a character limit on how many siphons you can deploy (i.e. have in space at the same time). This would probably be in the 5 to 10 range.
Let me know what you think.
This is a poor concept, as it merely punishes those players who don't participate in alt-exploitive multiple-account play. Eve Online already caters far too well to this playstyle in place of encouraging meaningful player interaction... where in most instances multiboxing and alt-based play already represent the optimal course of action.
By imposing a limit, you would constrain space-poor players and small entities whereas large entities would be largely unaffected due to the numerical and alt-based workarounds.
Strongly disapprove. |
BoomBoss
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 12:58:00 -
[1117] - Quote
In other words, faking the assets makes this change on the API makes the Asset API completely useless.
Thank you for making our work on apps even more shittier then it already was. All the hours and hours of work completely ruined by that change. |
Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 12:59:00 -
[1118] - Quote
Thorven Sinulf wrote:Great, so now someone can cheaply siphon off materials from space. What's next, DUST punks raiding my colonies and stealing/destroying stored PI materials, or allowing orbital bombardment against said colonies for jollies? Well, I guess it could be balanced by allowing players to recruit marines and purchase planetary/orbital defenses...never mind, bring it on!!
But they want an easy game, why can't you understand that? Choosing between defending POS and PVP roams is UNFAIR, BUAAAAHHHHH, I WANT MY SPACE EMPIRE, BUAAAAAAHHHHH |
Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 13:19:00 -
[1119] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:... One of the largest, most active groups in the game, with a history of delving into the mechanics of the game looking for the loopholes and problems CCP refuses to see until GSF goes ahead and rubs someone's nose in it, has multiple people posting in a thread about mechanics - the very same people who post on all of these mechanics threads, no less ... What I find most entertaining is that CCP have engaged GSF leadership as Game-architectural consultants -- and GSF leaders pay CCP for the privilege of providing consulting service!
Only thing more entertaining would be for GSF to hire competent Game-implementers to build competing Game, drive CCP out of business. Maybe they could call it "Awful Something"?
Ref: Clayton Christensen, The Innovator's Dilemma |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
346
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 13:25:00 -
[1120] - Quote
So many stupids talking about the API "lying to them".
It is absolutely moronic to think someone performing a type of in game covert sabotage against your corporation IN GAME should actually be flagged up nice and easily OUT OF GAME via API just to make your lives easier.
With whines like that it is no wonder everyone is trolling you - The question is: Is there really any reason Corp structures etc need to even be included in the API in the first place? (It is done to make life easier for POS folks, not to do half the maintenance work for them).
Tools already exist for POS fuelling via the in game calander, notifications are sent via mail in game for fuel, or when it is attacked, even when some random puts a tower up in your Sov etc... I'd argue for a much harsher Eve without even the in game help for POS operators - and that players who can't be bothered to even log in to manage and maintain their Eve POS empires don't deserve those empires in the first place.
Right now CCP panders completely for the lazy community - adding any 'syphon warning' via the API would be a massive mistake. |
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Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 13:30:00 -
[1121] - Quote
nXus wrote:Concerned that the false API tracking thing is going to completely break existing API tools that people rely on. So we'll see how the false reporting works in reality when people are emptying/shuffling silos etc.
Expecting T2 prices to go crazy. If these are spammed that's already 20% supply lost from the game and if it turns people off running the reaction chains then that's additional supply gone from the system. Add market manipulation and it's going to be a pretty crazy ride. Time will tell I guess..
I don't see this affecting large entities that don't base their ship doctrines on t2 ships. Expect T1 and T3 ships to become the norm. Perhaps CCP Plan is to use cheap siphons to crash MoonGoo production, drain existing hoards of MoonGoos, returning to original CCP intended state of MoonGoos being scarce, then later rebalance by making siphons more expensive to tune prices of MoonGoos?
Rube Goldberg, call your office! |
Kropotkin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 13:34:00 -
[1122] - Quote
Atlantis Fuanan wrote:Good job on the siphon unit, i just love the way it will harm the "big guys". But I don't see why the owner should be abel to see WHO placed it. I'd rather leave it anonymous. Why? For the first, a thief won't let a note back with his name on it. For the second, if done by a small corp, "bug guys" could go mad and throw blobs at them, while it encourages PVP, this can't be called PVP in the end (small vs big :(). AND for the third, it could also be done by some own corp buddies and cause some conspiracy. A big part of EVE is trust right? Maybe CCP hope is that subscriptions will increase, to support anonymous siphon-planting alts? |
Zakhin Desver
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 15:17:00 -
[1123] - Quote
Kropotkin wrote:Atlantis Fuanan wrote:Good job on the siphon unit, i just love the way it will harm the "big guys". But I don't see why the owner should be abel to see WHO placed it. I'd rather leave it anonymous. Why? For the first, a thief won't let a note back with his name on it. For the second, if done by a small corp, "bug guys" could go mad and throw blobs at them, while it encourages PVP, this can't be called PVP in the end (small vs big :(). AND for the third, it could also be done by some own corp buddies and cause some conspiracy. A big part of EVE is trust right? Maybe CCP hope is that subscriptions will increase, to support anonymous siphon-planting alts?
Maybe the real motive of syphon's existence is delivering cups of rage to POS owners, hence the note saying "Troll face alt 1 was here" |
Miner Hottie
Polaris Rising Gentlemen's Agreement
34
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 15:24:00 -
[1124] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:So many stupids talking about the API "lying to them".
It is absolutely moronic to think someone performing a type of in game covert sabotage against your corporation IN GAME should actually be flagged up nice and easily OUT OF GAME via API just to make your lives easier.
With whines like that it is no wonder everyone is trolling you - The question is: Is there really any reason Corp structures etc need to even be included in the API in the first place? (It is done to make life easier for POS folks, not to do half the maintenance work for them).
Tools already exist for POS fuelling via the in game calander, notifications are sent via mail in game for fuel, or when it is attacked, even when some random puts a tower up in your Sov etc... I'd argue for a much harsher Eve without even the in game help for POS operators - and that players who can't be bothered to even log in to manage and maintain their Eve POS empires don't deserve those empires in the first place.
Right now CCP panders completely for the lazy community - adding any 'syphon warning' via the API would be a massive mistake.
And so many eve online subscribers demonstrating there incredible absence of knowledge thinking POSs are easy and AFK, that POS monkeys are lazy and are pandered to by CCP. CSM actions and consequently the Devs were told here what those lazy POS monkeys' thought about that sort of attitude "I am a small portion of the eve community" note the 143 pages of comment on why CCP not fixing POS interface and mechanics and security was not good.
If CCP was to be considered to be pandering to anyone truly lazy, it would be cloaky AFKers. I mean, how little effort do they put into their gameplay? Think further, how ironic would it be if someone combined an AFK cloaky with these siphons to steal moon goo? How could that not be described as lazy gameplay?
On the matter of the API, yes diddling the API so it reports false information, what could be wrong with that? I guess those people using Evemon, Eve Fitting Tool, Pyfa they are all lazy as well I suppose, bad API feeds wouldn't bother them would it? It's all about how hot my mining lasers get. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Pirate Nation.
132
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 15:30:00 -
[1125] - Quote
OK so if you want the API not to lie, then the Siphon unit can be emptied and then scooped, so someone actually in system can work it to their advantage, do an hour of siphon then grab the moon goo then take back teh Siphon. In fact when I thought about this unit after CCP proposed it I assumed that is how it would work, I also assumed it would be placed about 300 km from the POS. While I will use this at a strategic level, there is no way that I would use this to make ISK at 10m a pop and anyone can take the stuff... If you do not want LOCAL go to WH space,-áand those people who think that WH space is like 0.0 but without local,-álight a cyno and try jumping to it.-á-á There is a structural issue with Eve, based on accounts with no link, vast reserves of ISK-áand plex, which makes it too easy to metagame the destruction of small alliances. |
Herr Esiq
Dirt Nap Squad
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 15:46:00 -
[1126] - Quote
Miner Hottie wrote:On the matter of the API, yes diddling the API so it reports false information, what could be wrong with that? I guess those people using Evemon, Eve Fitting Tool, Pyfa they are all lazy as well I suppose, bad API feeds wouldn't bother them would it? And you can"t see the difference between a 'personal character monitor' and a 'automated alliance tool that monotors a complete empire like HAL 9000'.
You really cant can you? |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
465
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 15:54:00 -
[1127] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Lessons learned
GÇóShooting at stationary structures is boring
GÇóWaking up every morning and having to clean up the mess made while you were asleep is boring
GùªSee: station ping-pong pre-sov, repairing station services. Having to do something tedious every day before you can actually play the game is not cool
GÇóMaking something tedious will not stop players doing it if it's very clearly the best option. They'll do it, and they'll hate it
GùªSee: everything involving starbases.
From this Dev Blog.
Apparently they have forgotten the lessons learned. You've got to remember that these are just simple miners. These are people of the land. The common clay of New Eden. You know... morons. |
Herr Esiq
Dirt Nap Squad
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 16:05:00 -
[1128] - Quote
It would be tedious if i see my sihphon units removed constantly.. |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
466
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 16:18:00 -
[1129] - Quote
My take on the API giving "false" information. It is a bad mechanic.
A POS manger uses the API to manage POS, he is looking at the information that the API is sending him and satisfied goes and does something fun, rather than sitting there micro manageing POS. If he notices somthing amiss, he is not "AFK" he can deal with the problem. With this "mechanic" he is not going to have time to do something fun, he is having to tediously check each POS.
I don't know about anybody else but I play this GAME to have fun, it is not supposed to be a tedious, second job simulator. TBH I don't own a POS because I don't want to have a second job in EVE. You've got to remember that these are just simple miners. These are people of the land. The common clay of New Eden. You know... morons. |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
466
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 16:21:00 -
[1130] - Quote
Herr Esiq wrote:It would be tedious if i see my sihphon units removed constantly.. Then the POS owner isn't AFK, and you should find a POS owner that is. QED You've got to remember that these are just simple miners. These are people of the land. The common clay of New Eden. You know... morons. |
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Herr Esiq
Dirt Nap Squad
73
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 16:25:00 -
[1131] - Quote
The API gives out way too much information already, and i'll give credit where credit is due; players really REALLY went out of their way to create tools to monitor empty regions of space through IT development.
If the API would tell the truth, there still wont be any incentive to check on the POS how its holding up except for the calendar route that was previously planned.
Maybe it shouldnt lie, but that part of the API should be removed completely. |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
466
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 16:38:00 -
[1132] - Quote
Herr Esiq wrote:The API gives out way too much information already, and i'll give credit where credit is due; players really REALLY went out of their way to create tools to monitor empty regions of space through IT development.
If the API would tell the truth, there still wont be any incentive to check on the POS how its holding up except for the calendar route that was previously planned.
Maybe it shouldnt lie and remove that part of the API completely.. Then give us a reason to use the awful trusec system that the moon is in, besides renting it out under usufruct. You've got to remember that these are just simple miners. These are people of the land. The common clay of New Eden. You know... morons. |
Mister McDerp
University of Caille Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 16:41:00 -
[1133] - Quote
Herr Esiq wrote:It would be tedious if i see my sihphon units removed constantly.. It would be tedious if i see my reactions shut down constantly
also more expensive |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4891
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 16:44:00 -
[1134] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:My take on the API giving "false" information. It is a bad mechanic.
A POS manger uses the API to manage POS, he is looking at the information that the API is sending him and satisfied goes and does something fun, rather than sitting there micro manageing POS. If he notices somthing amiss, he is not "AFK" he can deal with the problem. With this "mechanic" he is not going to have time to do something fun, he is having to tediously check each POS.
I don't know about anybody else but I play this GAME to have fun, it is not supposed to be a tedious, second job simulator. TBH I don't own a POS because I don't want to have a second job in EVE. I see that progodlegend will triumph over the empty husks of our unmaintained pos There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Fix Lag
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
583
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 17:29:00 -
[1135] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Falin Whalen wrote:My take on the API giving "false" information. It is a bad mechanic.
A POS manger uses the API to manage POS, he is looking at the information that the API is sending him and satisfied goes and does something fun, rather than sitting there micro manageing POS. If he notices somthing amiss, he is not "AFK" he can deal with the problem. With this "mechanic" he is not going to have time to do something fun, he is having to tediously check each POS.
I don't know about anybody else but I play this GAME to have fun, it is not supposed to be a tedious, second job simulator. TBH I don't own a POS because I don't want to have a second job in EVE. I see that progodlegend will triumph over the empty husks of our unmaintained pos
Didn't you know N3 was formed to kill us |
Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
789
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 18:17:00 -
[1136] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: I see that progodlegend will triumph over the empty husks of our unmaintained pos
Every time I see that, I read it as "prodgodlegend" which tbqh is a much better name.
|
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
346
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 18:29:00 -
[1137] - Quote
Miner Hottie wrote:Vyktor Abyss wrote:So many stupids talking about the API "lying to them".
It is absolutely moronic to think someone performing a type of in game covert sabotage against your corporation IN GAME should actually be flagged up nice and easily OUT OF GAME via API just to make your lives easier.
With whines like that it is no wonder everyone is trolling you - The question is: Is there really any reason Corp structures etc need to even be included in the API in the first place? (It is done to make life easier for POS folks, not to do half the maintenance work for them).
Tools already exist for POS fuelling via the in game calander, notifications are sent via mail in game for fuel, or when it is attacked, even when some random puts a tower up in your Sov etc... I'd argue for a much harsher Eve without even the in game help for POS operators - and that players who can't be bothered to even log in to manage and maintain their Eve POS empires don't deserve those empires in the first place.
Right now CCP panders completely for the lazy community - adding any 'syphon warning' via the API would be a massive mistake. And so many eve online subscribers demonstrating there incredible absence of knowledge thinking POSs are easy and AFK, that POS monkeys are lazy and are pandered to by CCP. CSM actions and consequently the Devs were told here what those lazy POS monkeys' thought about that sort of attitude "I am a small portion of the eve community" note the 143 pages of comment on why CCP not fixing POS interface and mechanics and security was not good. If CCP was to be considered to be pandering to anyone truly lazy, it would be cloaky AFKers. I mean, how little effort do they put into their gameplay? Think further, how ironic would it be if someone combined an AFK cloaky with these siphons to steal moon goo? How could that not be described as lazy gameplay? On the matter of the API, yes diddling the API so it reports false information, what could be wrong with that? I guess those people using Evemon, Eve Fitting Tool, Pyfa they are all lazy as well I suppose, bad API feeds wouldn't bother them would it?
You are being obtuse.
GÇó It is accepted that a moon mining POS is AFK income, as in it accrues materials while you are offline - so you are wrong. GÇó You assume others have no knowledge of POS managment because they disagree with your whines - you are wrong (I have ran a POS network of 15 POS solo and know the issues and pain of doing so). GÇó You are crying about Eve Fitting tool other API tools/data that have nothing to do with syphons and their (lack of) impact on the API - it just shows how obtuse you are being. GÇó You are apparently delibrately confusing Two Steps suggestions (dead horse POS rework) with supporting your own agenda about syphons - Just because POS owners (myself included) badly want a rework of the mechanics in a threadnaught about POS mechanics doesn't mean they agree with you about syphons. GÇó AFK Cloak whine - Stop talking rubbish about AFK cloaking laziness, you are being stupid and should go post in the relevant thread about that.
Fact is the API tool is useful for helping people do stuff out of game with the tools designed by players. These tools should NOT give an in game advantage, which is what some player designed 'syphon alert' system would do if POS syphoning appeared via the API.
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Arrendis
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
74
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:03:00 -
[1138] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:Fact is the API tool is useful for helping people do stuff out of game with the tools designed by players. These tools should NOT give an in game advantage, which is what some player designed 'syphon alert' system would do if POS syphoning appeared via the API.
And the fact is that the API's purpose is to give accurate, useful information. If it shouldn't be giving certain information, the correct response is to not give out that information, not to give out inaccurate information. If you're giving players a tool and saying 'you can trust this', and then you make it lie, you're only demonstrating that your players can trust neither your tool, nor you. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
346
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:36:00 -
[1139] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Vyktor Abyss wrote:Fact is the API tool is useful for helping people do stuff out of game with the tools designed by players. These tools should NOT give an in game advantage, which is what some player designed 'syphon alert' system would do if POS syphoning appeared via the API.
And the fact is that the API's purpose is to give accurate, useful information. If it shouldn't be giving certain information, the correct response is to not give out that information, not to give out inaccurate information. If you're giving players a tool and saying 'you can trust this', and then you make it lie, you're only demonstrating that your players can trust neither your tool, nor you.
No because you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater. It is still a useful indicator, just not guaranteed to be a 100% accurate figure *if* you get you POS syphoned. If you want to know your EXACT silo statuses every hour - check in game. |
Fix Lag
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
583
|
Posted - 2013.10.20 19:59:00 -
[1140] - Quote
Stop misspelling siphons. |
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