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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
737
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Posted - 2013.10.17 16:54:00 -
[1] - Quote
Because I get asked at least once a week by some new pilot that wants to be a 3rd party. I will explain everything here so I don't have to type it out every week to some new person.
Every week some new guy comes around and posts a 3rd party thread, then wonders why everybody is trolling him and not giving him any business. 99% of new 3rd party services fail, and they all fail for the same exact reasons. It's usually some nobody who is looking to get rich and famous by being a 3rd party.
Guidelines and facts
- 99% of new 3rd party services fail.
Check the sell orders forum, it is full of failed 3rd party service attempts.
- Do not ask for trust, because nobody will give it to you.
You need to earn it.
- Do not expect to get rich from 3rd party services, because you won't.
Most 3rd party providers make the majority of their isk from other avenues.
- Do not ask for a current 3rd party to vouch for you. It's not going to happen.
They will not vouch for anybody because that puts their reputation on the line that took years to build. They have zero reason to trust you.
- Do not ask for a current 3rd party to back you through collateral.
This doesn't make you trusted, as it's still the 3rd party who is providing the security.
- Do not ask to join a current 3rd parties corporation/alliance.
This puts their reputation on the line by association. So they aren't going to let you in.
What do all the succesful 3rd parties have in common?
- They all earned their trust through years of work
- They became trusted amongst their friends and allies before going public
- They all offered some sort of service to friends/allies or the public
- They are all respectful and polite, and they don't lose their temper when somebody doesn't give them respect.
I will update this over time, but this is enough for me to link to when somebody asks. Also if anybody has anything to add or ask please feel free to post here.
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Emma d'Acques
Vault Asset Management
31
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
To those that are looking to become 3rd Party people, take a look at the following link. It contains some helpfull tips. I'm not totally useless, I can be used as a bad example. |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
92
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Posted - 2013.10.17 17:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
If you want to become rich and famous all you need to do is say you're a third party, there's a lot of dopes out there with the ISK to buy supercapitals and a complete lack of common sense. .
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Sabriz Adoudel
Compulsory Euthanasia
994
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Posted - 2013.10.17 23:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:If you want to become rich and famous all you need to do is say you're a third party, there's a lot of dopes out there with the ISK to buy supercapitals and a complete lack of common sense.
This. And have your friends vouch for you (in exchange for a share of the stolen supercapitals or ISK) https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. The difference between an enemy and a friend is that you stab your enemies in the front. |
Trader WildBill
WildBill Trading Company
6
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Posted - 2013.10.18 00:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
lol |
RAW23
289
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Posted - 2013.10.18 11:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Grendell wrote:
Every week some new guy comes around and posts a 3rd party thread, then wonders why everybody is trolling him and not giving him any business. 99% of new 3rd party services fail, and they all fail for the same exact reasons. It's usually some nobody who is looking to get rich and famous by being a 3rd party.
It is probably not sufficiently well-known that third-party work is not a great route to riches. That might partly be down to the opacity of the market for this sort of work though - third party fees are very rarely made public, at least on MD, so it is not unreasonable for them to become inflated in the minds of observers and tied in to the perceived wealth of the third party. My own fees might be rather low because I see the role as more of a community service than an isk earner but I doubt so many people would be desperate for the job if they knew it was 100mil here and 100mil there, rates that barely compensate for time spent exchanging mails (so many mails ...) when competent active game-play can churn out 500mil+ per hour. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
flakeys
Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans
1529
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Posted - 2013.10.18 11:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Grendell wrote:
Do not ask to join a current 3rd parties corporation/alliance. This puts their reputation on the line by association. So they aren't going to let you in. [/list]
You could have just mailed me privately to tell me my application was going to be declined
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Block Ukx
Forge Laboratories
159
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Posted - 2013.10.18 13:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
Grendell wrote:...
Do not expect to get rich from 3rd party services, because you won't. Most 3rd party providers make the majority of their isk from other avenues.
I would add that 3rd party services have their own niche. For instance, I offer free 3rd party services for every listing in the stock exchange. So I can attest that my 3rd party service has yielded me the grand sum of 0 ISK in return.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4431
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Posted - 2013.10.18 14:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
First of all, I have posted a new website tutorial section some time ago that is all about new Market Discussion themes, beginning with trading and continuing with 3rd Party services.
Second, I believe in quality of service and thus I preferred specializing in the financial 3rd party services niche.
In example, I rarely deal with ships exchanges, while I am much more involved into:
- collateral holding, including POS research of collateral BPOs and similar - collateral value assesment and risk over time - financial services including loans, funds and so on - special transport, including super-high value collateralized transport. Last I have done 3 days ago involved a 146B fully insured value. - insurance on the above
Another characteristic of a good 3rd party service: being recognized as neutral and fair.
Some storic 3rd party names have fallen because of them having sided for somebody or having made non neutral choices.
This is easier said than done, expecially in EvE. This also imposes a more solitary life than desired.
But that's the only way.
I am also specialized in medium / high merc corps payment intermediation, they tend to get nervous if they have to deal with less than 100% neutral counterparts. Same, even if on a smaller scale, for Wormholes transfers intermediation. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
MyEveLotto
myEVElotto.com
47
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Posted - 2013.10.18 15:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Grendell wrote:What do all the succesful 3rd parties have in common?- They all earned their trust through years of work
- They became trusted amongst their friends and allies before going public
- They all offered some sort of service to friends/allies or the public
- They are all respectful and polite, and they don't lose their temper when somebody doesn't give them respect.
To be entirely honest, this stands true for anyone offering any service, not just 3rd parties. Particularly the part about being respectful and polite, and always maintaining a cool head. Getting worked up if someone gives you a hard time or calls you a scammer really doesn't help your case and simply makes you appear immature. This will simply cause people to lose any faith they may have had in you because who would trust some immature kid with their assets (even if you aren't one, having the appearance of one can kill your business).
While this next bit of advice doesn't really apply as much to 3rd parties as to anyone else providing a service, I feel it is worth mentioning:
You aren't perfect. You will mess up. When you do, it is far better to admit it and remedy it in a professional manner than to pretend you didn't mess up. This is the same with any real world business.
In my own experiences running myEVElotto, if there is a bug in the system, or even if the system can't handle something someone wants to do simply because I didn't anticipate a desire to do something in that way, I'll generally refund the cost of the hosted lottery. It is far better to not make money on something but end up with a satisfied (or at least appeased) customer than to make money and end up with an unhappy customer.
An unhappy customer posts claiming you're a scam, if only to get back at you and try to ruin you. A happy customer posts saying you're legit (or doesn't post at all, since people are far more likely to complain than commend). myEVElotto.com - The New Public Lottery Site |
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I Was There
Scorpion Invest
95
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Posted - 2013.10.18 17:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
If you want to be a 3rd party, you need to have a ton of cash. Is a rich guy likely to run off with your 1000 dollars? Nope. Is a poor guy likely to run off with your 1000 dollars? Probably. Is a broke guy likely to run off with your 1000 dollars? More likely.
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Femintaki
Pan-Galactic Production And Logistics Superior Eve Engineering
0
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Posted - 2013.10.18 19:33:00 -
[12] - Quote
It's been a long time since I actively played Eve, but as a veteran of this forum I would add that having trusted people vouch for you at the outset of your third party career is going to be a huge boost. That said, I suspect very few people would do this unless they have alot of experience with you as an individual.
So why is my comment relevant?
Well some years ago, when people knew who I was (no longer the case unless you are a long term player with a good memory ) an in game friend of mine who I respected and trusted asked me if I would vouch for them. It's an honour to say that the person in question was Grendell.
Keep up the good work Grendell!
Love Fem
DO OR DO NOT, THERE IS NO TRY! |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4435
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Posted - 2013.10.19 00:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
I Was There wrote:If you want to be a 3rd party, you need to have a ton of cash. Is a rich guy likely to run off with your 1000 dollars? Nope. Is a poor guy likely to run off with your 1000 dollars? Probably. Is a broke guy likely to run off with your 1000 dollars? More likely.
Not necessarily so.
This is the old "morality due to liquidity" fallacity. Which in turn comes from the "everyone has a price" prejudice.
It's sometimes induced by the very reflection of the own ego projected on the other people. A guy believing this, is prone to being a "money induced morality" person who can be corrupted or bought out with enough cash.
I am fairly sure that most Trusted Persons in EvE and also in RL, became so not because they started filthy rich.
They became filthy rich as consequence of being trustworthy.
I don't know the other guys personal story so I can only talk for myself: My first trial has been when I was just few months old in game and owned all of... 2-3 Rifters, 2 T1 fitted destroyers, 3-4 Mammoths and 2 Retrievers. I got made CEO of a small corp to hold 43B worth of assets for a person (I think a talk about this was made in the old forums) and gave them back when he returned playing the game.
At the time I was totally unable to understand why that person was so incredibly surprised when I promptly made him CEO again and also handed back everything. I was accustomed at other elder games (older than EvE), where Honor was the un-purchasable asset.
Even today I can log in into Istaria and hand 2 plots worth 3-4 RL years of work and money to people I don't even know too well any more, and still be sure they'll give them back to me when I come back. Exactly like I did with theirs. That's more than borrowing a Titan. That's the nature of old time gamers, I took this behavior as discounted when I started EvE.
How naive I was. But being naive paid well, because all I had to do has been to keep playing in my usual way (just learning being prudent) to enter the elusive EvE meta-game.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Imiarr Timshae
Funny Men In Funny Hats
87
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Posted - 2013.10.21 22:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
I meet all the requirements plus my third party work is free. Who'd have thought? Imiarr's Services: The Standing Correction Agency : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=41506 Imiarr Timshae's FREE 3rd Party and Collateral Holding Service : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3297432&#post3297432 |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1997
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Posted - 2013.10.21 23:01:00 -
[15] - Quote
I Was There wrote:If you want to be a 3rd party, you need to have a ton of cash. Is a rich guy likely to run off with your 1000 dollars? Nope. Is a poor guy likely to run off with your 1000 dollars? Probably. Is a broke guy likely to run off with your 1000 dollars? More likely.
I'm worth a few trillion isk. I'm available to provide any sort of third-party services you may need.
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote: They became filthy rich as consequence of being trustworthy.
I'm pretty sure that many of the richest people in Eve and real life - especially real life - are not trustworthy at all. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4450
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Posted - 2013.10.22 00:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
mynnna wrote: I'm pretty sure that many of the richest people in Eve and real life - especially real life - are not trustworthy at all. If people on that "most trustworthy" list are filthy rich, it's because they're willing to put in the work to achieve a goal, whether that's the maintenance of their picture perfect public image or the size of their wallet.
You are talking about a different situation. Being trustworthy is not a requirement to become rich. And vice versa.
I too know that some nasty loan sharks, drug trafficants and similar filth may easily get very rich.
But we are talking about 3rd party services, that is people who don't commit crimes and yet they grow rich.
As for working to achieve a goal... is that an end or is the medium to become trusted and / or rich?
To me it's a path to self improvement that never ends and a goal achieved is but a stepping stone to aim higher. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Alex Grison
Grison Industrial Group
618
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Posted - 2013.10.22 10:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
I will start my own third 3arty service.
It will be the best. I will just throw everyone and everything down the slunk tube and it will be a vortex of uncertainty.
And then there will be a fatality.
And then we will come out on the other side. http://www.twitter.com/Alex__Grison |
flakeys
Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans
1549
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Posted - 2013.10.22 13:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Alex Grison wrote:I will start my own third 3arty service.
It will be the best. I will just throw everyone and everything down the slunk tube and it will be a vortex of uncertainty.
And then there will be a fatality.
And then we will come out on the other side.
Can i be your first customer?
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Careby
Careby Exploration
62
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Posted - 2013.10.22 14:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
I Was There wrote:If you want to be a 3rd party, you need to have a ton of cash. Is a rich guy likely to run off with your 1000 dollars? Nope. Is a poor guy likely to run off with your 1000 dollars? Probably. Is a broke guy likely to run off with your 1000 dollars? More likely.
My personal experience has not led me to the same conclusions.
Alex Grison wrote:I will start my own third 3arty service.
It will be the best. I will just throw everyone and everything down the slunk tube and it will be a vortex of uncertainty.
And then there will be a fatality.
And then we will come out on the other side. I don't think that's the kind of party they were talking about, Alex.
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Scion Lex
Tungsten Carbonide Asset Management
39
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Posted - 2013.10.23 23:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Life lesson:1
-An individual will do what they BELIEVE is in their best interest at that point in time. Influence actions by influencing belief.- |
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Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1306
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Posted - 2013.10.24 00:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Confirming that I offer all sorts of third party services. Contact me for a quote.
I will pricematch. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front. |
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
766
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Posted - 2013.12.12 19:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
Updated.
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Grendell
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
843
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Posted - 2014.03.10 17:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
Updated.
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
985
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Posted - 2014.03.10 22:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post and let some edge cases stay..
The rules: 5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. ISD Ezwal Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5270
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Posted - 2014.03.11 14:05:00 -
[25] - Quote
Hello,
I don't know if it's appropriate for this thread, but my web site has a whole section describing various kinds of 3rd party services, links to the most known 3rd party / trusted guys and so on. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Grendell
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
844
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Posted - 2014.03.11 14:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Hello, I don't know if it's appropriate for this thread, but my web site has a whole section describing various kinds of 3rd party services, links to the most known 3rd party / trusted guys and so on.
Thanks buddy, I've added the link to the OP!
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Grendell
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
844
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Posted - 2014.03.11 14:44:00 -
[27] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Hello, I don't know if it's appropriate for this thread, but my web site has a whole section describing various kinds of 3rd party services, links to the most known 3rd party / trusted guys and so on.
If possible coudl you edit your page regarding Dark. His name is spelled with 3x "S" so it's "Darknesss"
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Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
4220
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Posted - 2014.03.12 02:09:00 -
[28] - Quote
I get asked all the time to provide third party services and I just politely decline. I can provide a list of trusted third parties for anyone interested. For rather large transactions, I generally use James 315, the Mittani, or Alice Saki, but Chribba is good too if he has the time and you can afford his fee. See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5270
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Posted - 2014.03.12 02:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
Grendell wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Hello, I don't know if it's appropriate for this thread, but my web site has a whole section describing various kinds of 3rd party services, links to the most known 3rd party / trusted guys and so on. If possible coudl you edit your page regarding Dark. His name is spelled with 3x "S" so it's "Darknesss"
Done! Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
11230
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Posted - 2014.03.12 06:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Grendell wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Hello, I don't know if it's appropriate for this thread, but my web site has a whole section describing various kinds of 3rd party services, links to the most known 3rd party / trusted guys and so on. If possible coudl you edit your page regarding Dark. His name is spelled with 3x "S" so it's "Darknesss" Done! You missed the 's' in the link to him though
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