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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
721
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Posted - 2013.11.26 23:25:00 -
[91] - Quote
Actually is only a time sink, not more engaging than the old rats.
To be decent should be more complicated and in line with EVE standards. Less random, more modules and skills involved, different scripts and virus to load in the Analyzer, add different characteristics fo Relic and Data, not only the loot; and so on...
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Dato Koppla
Retribution Innovations
391
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Posted - 2013.11.26 23:44:00 -
[92] - Quote
Have we heard nothing from CCP on their stance on loot spew? They seem quick enough to respond to threads where people are praising them (like for mobile depot, ghost sites etc) but nowhere to be seen on this issue that the majority of the community agrees needs to go. |
Miriya Zakalwe
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.11.27 02:30:00 -
[93] - Quote
As a new player, my perspective here is maybe not super valuable, but for me, the minigame is fine but the loot spew annoying enough that I decided to completely ignore exploration as a career for the moment.
Obviously, YMMV. |
Klatus Doshu
Deutsche Technik Space Angels
0
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Posted - 2013.11.27 08:40:00 -
[94] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote::
Add some new subsystems to hacking such as:
- airlock subsystem (after hack loot will not be sprayed or sprayed with slower speed)
- grid map subsystem (after hacking it will show whole grid with unclicked subsytems covered but shown as potentialy defense nodes or user soft, player will have more influance to plan whole hack)
- can register subsystem (after hack will show can content so players will have an option to refit hull with some other equipment than cargo scanner)
all above was mainly for solo, but:
in hack attempt done in group one person is hacking and others are waiting for candies to catch. Why not let second and more person help breaking the can airlock. They just start the hack from other corner of the grid (i don't know if this kind of interaction can be implemented in code).
I really like the hacking concept. This is where solo and group exploration should focus. It has great potential not only in exploration but needs to be polished.
I like that!
But what about using the analyzer to see what it is in the can --> you need more skill to analyze difficult cans And use the codebreaker for relic and data site cans By this you won't need a cargo scanner anymore (one more mid) and it would be more difficult to do cherry picking Curios about your thought |
Amber Kurvora
110
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Posted - 2013.11.27 09:49:00 -
[95] - Quote
The can spew can seem a slap in the face when you've scanned it down, hacked it and then promptly miss out on the shiny. Relics in Low and high need a serious buff to bring them in line with data sites. It's hardly worth checking them out except for the temptation of faction loot. Going back to the can spew when it comes to relics, it'd be nice to have the t2 parts be consistently in the parts cans and not the materials whenever the site decides it.
A better way to have implemented the game, would be to make it so the hacking game dictates what is dropped in a single can. You hack it first time and you get all the shiny. Fail first time and it randomizes what is dropped. Fail a second time and you lose it all. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
349
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Posted - 2013.11.27 11:50:00 -
[96] - Quote
Amber Kurvora wrote:The can spew can seem a slap in the face when you've scanned it down, hacked it and then promptly miss out on the shiny. Relics in Low and high need a serious buff to bring them in line with data sites. It's hardly worth checking them out except for the temptation of faction loot. Going back to the can spew when it comes to relics, it'd be nice to have the t2 parts be consistently in the parts cans and not the materials whenever the site decides it.
A better way to have implemented the game, would be to make it so the hacking game dictates what is dropped in a single can. You hack it first time and you get all the shiny. Fail first time and it randomizes what is dropped. Fail a second time and you lose it all.
You learn which type of can has which type of thing, and you prioritise the cans you yank back based on the cargo scan.
As I've said before, I do not lose valuables to loot spew. If a tower bpc spawns in a data, I can assure you I will loot the tower bpc. I would not care if I missed out on a disc in a parts can, because I was yanking back all the data cans to make sure I got the bpc.
You get plenty of time to decide your triage strategy for when the cans appear.
The point to loot spew is that you -must- pay attention to it, so you need to do your d-scan / check local whatever immediately before it - its a discipline check. oh wait you play in highsec where the nature of the mini games and its vulnerabilities do not matter. oh yeah people playing half the game wonder why it is like it is.
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Jeremiah Saken
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.11.27 19:11:00 -
[97] - Quote
Quote:But what about using the analyzer to see what it is in the can (without minigame) --> you need more skill to analyze difficult cans And use the codebreaker for relic and data site cans (with minigame but without spew) By this you won't need a cargo scanner anymore (one more mid) and it would be more difficult to do cherry picking
Correct me if i'm wrong, you propose: 1 - analyzer should "roll" content of a can. The better the skills player have the better loot will be "rolled" (this will be a step back to pre odyssey devices) 2 - hacking a can with codebreaker. No loot fireworks just loot the can.
What if i don't want to know what is inside a can? just go straight to point 2, or is it just must do mechanism?
I like the idea of spliting devices activity to analizing loot and codebreaking.
What kind of penalize mechanism you provide for sites? Can exploding? Any ideas for multiplayer exploration? |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
162
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Posted - 2013.11.27 19:40:00 -
[98] - Quote
Miriya Zakalwe wrote:As a new player, my perspective here is maybe not super valuable, but for me, the minigame is fine but the loot spew annoying enough that I decided to completely ignore exploration as a career for the moment.
Obviously, YMMV.
Go into low/null and do the hacking mini game that takes up your entire screen making responding to threats much more difficult for what appears to be no reason other than to add "danger" to an already dangerous adventure. No reason not to be able to resize that and the fittings windows.
Everyone including the person/persons that came up with lewt spew knows by now it sucks warm donkey balls. We also know that since it is someones baby with power at CCP, it is not going anywhere.
Exploration was not great before but it is terribad now.
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Klatus Doshu
Deutsche Technik Space Angels
0
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Posted - 2013.11.27 20:08:00 -
[99] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Quote:But what about using the analyzer to see what it is in the can (without minigame) --> you need more skill to analyze difficult cans And use the codebreaker for relic and data site cans (with minigame but without spew) By this you won't need a cargo scanner anymore (one more mid) and it would be more difficult to do cherry picking Correct me if i'm wrong, you propose: 1 - analyzer should "roll" content of a can. The better the skills player have the better loot will be "rolled" (this will be a step back to pre odyssey devices) 2 - hacking a can with codebreaker. No loot fireworks just loot the can. What if i don't want to know what is inside a can? just go straight to point 2, or is it just must do mechanism? I like the idea of spliting devices activity to analizing loot and codebreaking. What kind of penalize mechanism you provide for sites? Can exploding? Any ideas for multiplayer exploration?
Yes....right now players use the cargo scanner and open only can which are worth to open it.... with my idea you need (have to invest ) at least some skill to be efficient and yes if you don-Št want to know what it is inside ...skip it...but with my idea you will need only two mid slots (analyzer+codebreaker) instead of three (cargo scanner+analyzer+codebreaker) or if you are not interested in the can content only one (code breaker) instead of two (code breaker + analyzer)
I would leave the kind of penalization as it is right now (can explode if you fail to hack it ) i just want to improve the amount of modules you need
And regardining the can spew I find the idea, which I quoted; quite fine |
Jeremiah Saken
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.11.27 21:31:00 -
[100] - Quote
Quote:...and yes if you don-Št want to know what it is inside ...skip it...
Cargo container scanner is linked with loot eruption, without it there is no reason to bring it.
data sites = parts relic sites = parts and materials data container for both if needed
Maybe lets try quite the oposite: do not reamove loot spew. But. Containers will not vanish in space, and loot will better spread among the types of them. Its hardcore but it suits the very concept of group exploring.
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Nlex
Domini Canium
20
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Posted - 2013.11.27 22:54:00 -
[101] - Quote
Loot spew does not look like a normal part of gameplay, but instead like a punishment. Loot contained in structure is sent flying in all directions, player has to catch it fast - why does it happens when player WON the hacking minigame?
Maybe it should go like: 1. Won on first attempt (got full control on enemy system) - get one can with everything 2. Won on second attempt (got control on backup airlock system) - get current loot spew 3. Lost two attempts - container explodes/locks up completely/calls reinforcements. |
Evva Ready
Matala Capital
5
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Posted - 2013.11.28 23:49:00 -
[102] - Quote
It's a **** waste of time and I won't be doing it again ! Just like most the crap they have introduced in the last few years. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
581
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Posted - 2013.12.09 14:33:00 -
[103] - Quote
Bump.
Loot spew is a terrible mechanic.
Get rid of it. Not today spaghetti. |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
636
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Posted - 2014.01.08 13:37:00 -
[104] - Quote
Ok lets tl,dr
Lootspew.
Universally hated.... Check Bad design...............check Visually unclear .......check Timewasting.............check Frustrating................check Physically painful......check Bad ergonomics........check Breaks immersion.....check
Have I missed anything?
CCP just admit you screwed the pooch on this one, not every idea works in practice, it is not a failiure if you learn from it.
Please even if you do nohing else just remove it in it's entirity as a concept. There is nothing worth saving as an idea. Just no. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
35
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Posted - 2014.01.08 14:07:00 -
[105] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ok lets tl,dr
Lootspew.
Universally hated.... Check Bad design...............check Visually unclear .......check Timewasting.............check Frustrating................check Physically painful......check Bad ergonomics........check Breaks immersion.....check
Have I missed anything? Just no.
Makes most sites (data/relic) worthless in wormholes? I'd rather spend 20 minutes fighting sleepers than the hour after huddled with my corpmates around cans. We've done it a couple times and it sucks for everyone involved... especially the 1 or 2 guys around the can that aren't even hacking and just waiting to catch loot.
I also echo the sentiment that this should be eradicated. |
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Hello-There
80
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Posted - 2014.01.08 14:28:00 -
[106] - Quote
heh, perhaps we need a new 'Loot Hoover' mobile structure... |
Elfred Gam'Havoc
Havoc Violence and Chaos Advent of Fate
14
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Posted - 2014.01.08 15:22:00 -
[107] - Quote
I was ambivalent about it when it came into effect... with practice, strategy and an afterburner its not terribly cumbersome when soloing relic/data sites... but for the difficulty of the nullsec hacking minigame for cans that display decent loot, you shouldn't have to chase the shiny parts or data cans. |
Deunan Tenephais
63
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Posted - 2014.01.08 15:53:00 -
[108] - Quote
The loot spew is overkill, first there is the scanning mini-game, then the hacking mini-game, and at last the catch'em all mini-game. Wheels within wheels within wheels...it's too much. Plus it feels very much unfair and unrewarding, the site was found and scanned, the system was hacked, no reason for a sore-loser-mechanic like that. Why not simply put the contents of the containers on different protected nodes of the hacking minigame ? It would make it more strategic than actually, having to choose which nodes attack while keeping enough juices to get out of the system. Once you're out, you get what you unlocked during the hack, and that's all, no need to overcomplicate things.
And yes, make data and archeological sites different from each other with different mechanics, currently having 2 skills and 2 modules is totally useless, it's only a skill sink without purpose nor meaning. |
Andrea Keuvo
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
73
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Posted - 2014.01.11 04:49:00 -
[109] - Quote
dexington wrote:The loot spray could be removed from hackable gas sites.
It's annoying having to bring both data analyzer and cargo scanner, when you still have to fit tank and weapons. And it's even more annoying having to grab the loot, when the white could background makes it almost impossible to read the text telling you which type the can is.
This +1000. You can't fail the minigame in these sites so wtf is the point of having the spew? Best part is, the tractor feature doest even work right all of the time. Seems like at least once per can it lags 2-4 seconds before actually tractoring the can in. Nothing like losing a 250m isk skillbook due to a crap mechanic that was poorly implemented. |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
617
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Posted - 2014.01.11 05:42:00 -
[110] - Quote
The point to lootspew is that the hacking game can be done in a click, check overview, dscan, click, check overview, dscan fashion. The lootspew is a bit more consuming of your attention, and that's a deliberate game design feature.
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Omega Flames
Forever Winter
87
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Posted - 2014.01.12 21:32:00 -
[111] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:The point to lootspew is that the hacking game can be done in a click, check overview, dscan, click, check overview, dscan fashion. The lootspew is a bit more consuming of your attention, and that's a deliberate game design feature.
lootspew lasts only 15 secs maybe 20, the odds ill be dropped on during that 15-20 sec period is pretty small since none of the wh pvpers are going to actually time their drop for when the spew happens since all they need is 1 cloaky to get close enough to point and that's it. (and yes i intentionally didnt include kspace dwellers since local is your way of not getting hotdropped on)
my opinion of the lootspew is get rid of it already. whoever is the reason lootspew hasnt been taken out of the game when rubicon was released needs to be fired already since they obviously are this out of tune with the player base. <Munnkeh> i'm gonna use that excuse if i ever kill someone. "look, if you keep meeting ppl, it's bound to happen eventually" http://i.imgur.com/76pQ9.jpg |
Kaivar Lancer
Garoun Investment Bank
426
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Posted - 2014.01.13 08:43:00 -
[112] - Quote
The response to lootspew is overwhelmingly negative. Why is CCP still sitting on its hands? |
Metamonic
Bubbles Bubbles Bubbles
16
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Posted - 2014.01.13 14:51:00 -
[113] - Quote
I don't mind the mini game (quite fun) or the loot spew. The loot discharge is quite manageable in my opinion and I rarely lose anything I really want from the scan list. Maybe there are better ways to implement the looting part, but I can live with it. In a way it forces you to make a very quick prioritization of what you want to go for and in what order before they drift apart. There is nothing wrong with that idea in itself.
On the other hand, I do feel a bit for all those useless cans that drops. It seems like such an easy thing to improve. Aside of the massively one-sided strain of complaints towards the mechanics of clicking at cans in space, I think the real problems of the exploring mechanics today is simply how people leave sites half way done once they cherry pick what they want.
To solve this problem, in my opinion, is to also solve the problem with useless cans;
- Add some non-scanable content of semi valuable loot (for example reports, and hydrogen cells but in larger quantities, but a bit of versatility is not un-welcome here. (Maybe moon-goo in Null, PI in Highsec and Worm-stuff in W-space?) - Allow for exploration sites to escalate
These things will make people finish the sites and maybe also chase those last cans even after the scanable content was picked up.
My two cents. |
Higgs Foton
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
11
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Posted - 2014.01.13 14:58:00 -
[114] - Quote
I changed my mind. After doing a bunch of relic sites i think both the lootspew and the hacking game need to go. Change it back to the way it was. Hack into can, open container, grab lewtz. |
Sununu Guasu
Sununu Guasu Piru
0
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Posted - 2014.01.13 18:21:00 -
[115] - Quote
I'm all for completely removing both the hacking mini game and loot spew.
If CCP isn't willing to do that, I think they should at least remove one of the clickfests an explorer has to suffer through after having gone through the trouble of finding the site.
For data sites, remove loot spew, and keep the hacking mini game.
For relic sites, keep loot spew (if you must), and remove the hacking mini game.
That aligns better anyway with the idea of hacking into a system to retrieve data, or analyzing an archeological site to extract relics without damaging or destroying them. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
1215
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:33:00 -
[116] - Quote
Can loot spew cans be added to the overview? if so this would remove my biggest complaint about loot spew, that being that you have to mouse over stuff to figure out what kind of can it is.
Reduce volume of the trash mods from loot spew containers
Give us a third chance to hack those really hard containers. Hacking game is at about the right level of difficulty IMO, but a third chance to deal with the bad-luck aspect of certain boards would help.
Loot spew itself is mostly fine, only issue is occasional latency in getting your tractor beam to pick stuff up.
Make sites properly despawn when people leave them, provided at least one of the containers has been exploded or successfully hacked. I don't think there's a single site in the last week where I bothered to hack every container. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
Jeremiah Saken
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2014.01.13 19:50:00 -
[117] - Quote
Quote:Can loot spew cans be added to the overview?
This
Quote:Loot spew itself is mostly fine, only issue is occasional latency in getting your tractor beam to pick stuff up.
Mostly. Tractor beam needs longer range and speed.
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Erin Crawford
21
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Posted - 2014.01.13 20:01:00 -
[118] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:The response to lootspew is overwhelmingly negative. Why is CCP still sitting on its hands?
Who knows? Maybe they just couldn't be bothered? It's a possibility. Maybe they are working on a better solution already. It's also possible...
One thing's for sure though; the current mechanic totally sucks balls cans and has to go!! |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
2174
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Posted - 2014.01.14 00:47:00 -
[119] - Quote
Loot spew exists because some coke-head in Marketing read a magazine article about "casual gaming" and thought tacking Peggle or whatever into EvE would be a great idea. Nullsec in a Nutshell: http://nedroid.com/comics/2006-08-24-2155-arrrdino.gif |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
621
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Posted - 2014.01.14 07:57:00 -
[120] - Quote
Omega Flames wrote:Tauranon wrote:The point to lootspew is that the hacking game can be done in a click, check overview, dscan, click, check overview, dscan fashion. The lootspew is a bit more consuming of your attention, and that's a deliberate game design feature.
lootspew lasts only 15 secs maybe 20, the odds ill be dropped on during that 15-20 sec period is pretty small since none of the wh pvpers are going to actually time their drop for when the spew happens since all they need is 1 cloaky to get close enough to point and that's it. (and yes i intentionally didnt include kspace dwellers since local is your way of not getting hotdropped on) my opinion of the lootspew is get rid of it already. whoever is the reason lootspew hasnt been taken out of the game when rubicon was released needs to be fired already since they obviously are this out of tune with the player base.
nobody hotdrops a helios, unless they are in dek or somewhere else totally boring.
last I looked, I see cloakies on grid decloaking before they can start locking me - which is long enough for an agile frigate to get away) which is why the specific process I outlined works. I am more distracted by lootspew however, which is the natural moment to decloak on someone if you do intend trying to tackle an aggressive but attentive miniprof runner.
As far as WHs go, you should have a pretty good idea whether or not someone can be in your system, and it takes them a lot of commitment to your kill if you do practice safe-wh. |
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