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Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
655
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Posted - 2013.10.23 14:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
Current FW is balanced, can be tweaked an improved, but it does the work.
Main problem is defensive plexing, is boring like hell and not rewarding, so everyone hates doing it. Problem is: a core idea behind FW sovreignity model is that don't have to be passive like in null (place your flag and then don't have to worry about it too much, don't have neither live in there) but players have to actively be there and "do something".
Another element in the current FW is promoting offensive gameplay, gathering resources (LP/plex) in enemy systems, capturing and so on.
All this - as is balanced now - works; create e dynamic envinroment and checking the ship/pod kills on dotlan prove as FW systems are generally the one with higher PvP activity in all EVE.
However just these characteristics: promoting/rewarding offensive capturing gameplay and forcing people to do something boring (deplexing) is what annoy. I think many hysterical approach to farmer are more generated by this: people login, would like to roam around fighting and see that have to deplex instead becaiuse in the previous hours someone else plexed in his home system.
So, yes, we can nerf offensive plexing so the problem is fixed; but the whole system (that actually works) will be broken.
For sure we can tune it, but we have to always keep in mind as any nerf to offensive or buff to defensive (this include, LP reduction, automatisms, timers rollback, less plex spawn and so on) risk to ruin the system turning it in a pale and stagnant clone of null-sec sov.
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Humang
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
23
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Posted - 2013.10.24 11:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
I've not read this entire thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone.
I would suggest that the capture speed/time of a plex is based on how far away (# of jumps) it is from a allied held system(the further away, the longer it takes)
EG. If you are offensive plexing 1 jump from a friendly system, then the capture time is unaffected, if you are 4 jumps from a friendly system it takes twice as long to capture the plex. (rough numbers, but you should get the idea)
It wont stop farmers, but it would help compress the war-zone and promote fights. Just an idea though. Witty Comment Here |
Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
103
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Posted - 2013.10.24 16:39:00 -
[33] - Quote
I heard this somewhere. If you kill the farmers, they MUST stop farming for the entire time they are dead. |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos
38
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Posted - 2013.10.24 17:32:00 -
[34] - Quote
Moonlit Raid wrote:I heard this somewhere. If you kill the farmers, they MUST stop farming for the entire time they are dead.
I've heard it takes well set up farmers less than 5 minutes to be right back at it again.
I've also heard that fitting to gank crapfit stabbed cloaked farmers gimps your fit for fighting actual PvPers in FW.
Realistically, OP is right. Need to decouple plexing LPs from system contested percentage in some way. At the same time, I hate the idea of giving them bonus LPs for farming plexes.
What about a hybrid system? If you don't set your capture flag, you get full LPs, but nothing goes to the contested percentage. If you do, you get x% of the normal rewards, and it impacts the contested percentage for the system. Then increase the LP rewards for hub bashing significantly.
Farmers would never willingly set a capture flag on if it decreased their LP rewards, so would rarely contribute to contesting systems. They'd still provide targets, though. Combine this with timer rollbacks and you've got a workable system IMO.
PvPers pushing for control would set the flag, and would be incentivized to bash the hub and take the system in the end.
If a farmer and a pilot with their capture flag set 'on' should have the plex pay out at the lower rate. Another way of farming farmer tears.
Lastly, defensive plexing should pay 0 LP unless you've got your capture flag set; if it is set, have the payout be fixed at 50% or so of offensive plexing LP. This should remove the disincentive to deplex at lower levels of contesting, and reduce farmers gaing lots of LP with minimal risk. |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
355
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Posted - 2013.10.24 19:09:00 -
[35] - Quote
Reduce LP gain for the amount of Warp Core Stabilizers fit. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1647
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Posted - 2013.10.24 19:19:00 -
[36] - Quote
Major Trant wrote: The thing is though, people are suggesting a return to 1 or 2 in order to STOP farming. Yes it did. The second option of timer stopping until all rats were killed, along with the large number of rats to be killed wiped out farming activity.
But, whatever. Time to move on just like CCP. |
Andre Vauban
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
146
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Posted - 2013.10.24 19:23:00 -
[37] - Quote
The system as it currently stands is really quite good. Who cares about all the systems nobody lives in? If a FW group actually lives in lowsec, the home systems will be at low contested rates pretty much all the time as any farmer attempting to plex will be hunted and destroyed.
IMHO, the only thing that needs to change is that people should be rewarded almost full LP for deplexing a "home" system so that it doesn't become to much of a chore that nobody wants to do. The devil is in the details and CCP will have to figure out how to define "home" system so that it isn't exploitable to farm full defensive LP on a large number of systems. If this happens, the winning side can keep the losing side down instead of burning out because they have no more plexes to run, which then starts the pendulum swinging back towards the loser. QCATS is recruiting: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=146180 |
Red Teufel
Mafia Redux Phobia.
254
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Posted - 2013.10.29 03:48:00 -
[38] - Quote
right now i like how it is. with some more dust interaction it will only get better. pilots have everything they need for easy sustainable pew pew. if it isn't your fancy any longer perhaps moving to 0.0 or become a pirate. |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
644
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Posted - 2013.10.29 04:50:00 -
[39] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Major Trant wrote: The thing is though, people are suggesting a return to 1 or 2 in order to STOP farming. Yes it did. The second option of timer stopping until all rats were killed, along with the large number of rats to be killed wiped out farming activity.
Yeah, farming pretty much fell flat on it's face when you had to kill all the rats and there were a ton of them. Plus, it actually provided a limited amount of built in incentive to plex in groups that didn't overscale because you could clear the rats faster. If you wanted to push a system, you truly had to dedicate the resources necessary to push that system since deplexing was so much easier.
Quote:But, whatever. Time to move on just like CCP.
I think of this everytime I see one of these threads.
The moar you cry the less you pee |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
663
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Posted - 2013.10.29 10:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
Pinky Feldman wrote: Yeah, farming pretty much fell flat on it's face when you had to kill all the rats and there were a ton of them. Plus, it actually provided a limited amount of built in incentive to plex in groups that didn't overscale because you could clear the rats faster. If you wanted to push a system, you truly had to dedicate the resources necessary to push that system since deplexing was so much easier.
Was also a decent income from rats tags. It was good cause is a "neutral" income for whoever stayed and held the plex, and not linked to the tier so working as partial balance/incentive for the side on lower WZ tier.
And in some cases also promotic asymmetric engagments, or anyway an added variable. |
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Major Trant
Oxide Nation Iron Oxide.
215
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Posted - 2013.10.29 15:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
Pinky Feldman wrote:
Yeah, farming pretty much fell flat on it's face when you had to kill all the rats and there were a ton of them. Plus, it actually provided a limited amount of built in incentive to plex in groups that didn't overscale because you could clear the rats faster. If you wanted to push a system, you truly had to dedicate the resources necessary to push that system since deplexing was so much easier
I disagree that it killed farming, the system never had time to settle. Let me expand on what happened.
CCP had already announced what was going to happen in the Winter expansion. They were going to stop offensive plexes paying LP once the system reached vulnerable; Move the button closer to the warp in; Change the system from minor, medium, major, major unrestricted, to novice, small, medium, large with different ship restrictions; Force the killing of the rats; Change the rats; Add LP to defensive plexing and also change the way Tier levels worked.
As mentioned above one of the problems with the old system was that most systems were farmed to vulnerable and then continued to be farmed rather than flipping them. My alliance, Iron Oxide set up an alt corp in the Amarr Militia and we started flipping the Minmatar vulnerable systems to the Amarr so that we could farm them back to vulnerable and then flip them back to Minmatar just before the Winter patch. An indication of just how screwed the original system was.
CCP got wind of the plan after we had flipped about 4 systems. They announced an emergency half patch going live the very next day. Several of the feature were implemented. Adding defensive LP; Forcing the rats to be killed; Stopping the paying of offensive LP once the system hit vulnerable and I think the offensive buffer was limited to 125% contested.
The farmers didn't go away, they flocked to defensive plexing. As nearly all the systems were already vulnerable, they could get the full 70% of the LP defensive plexing without having to kill any rats, which saved them 20 minutes per plex. It was simply more cost effective over time to farm defensive plexes. Eventually all the systems were either farmed back to a lower level of contestation or they were flipped the other way.
Farming never settled, two or three months later the winter patch hit and the remaining changes were implimented. But you can bet you mortgage that as long as some form of plexing remained profitable, the farmers would have adapted and continued.
Like the original system solo PvP was very difficult in those plexes. Worst of all, because it became more profitable/cost effective to defensive plex at higher levels of contestation, it became almost impossible to flip a system. The warzone would have eventually settled to a stagnated state.
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Having seen the response to this thread, while a few ppl have been supportive, I can see no general consensus for my idea, thus don't think I'm going to try and progress it further. Thanks for the input though. Oxide Nation - Minmatar FW - Low Sec PvP - Euro TZ - New Player Friendly Contact: Major Trant In game channel: FeO Public Recruitment thread: Oxide Nation |
Major Killz
La Fraternite
265
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Posted - 2013.10.29 15:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
CCP should just put NPC back inside PLEX. Everyone who goes in there should be shot. Do it Incursion style and be done with it. No warp disruptors but stasis webs and what not. Make them a serious enough threat in terms of damage. So, pilots will need to set up their ships for combat or PVE. Sure it will make battling INSIDE a PLEX difficult but a lot of engagements happen around the WARP GATE anyways. Plus pilots have to deal with mission, anom and DED NPC shooting them if they battle in there. Why not factional warfare?
Also, REMOVE WARP CORE STABS.
Problem solved v0v - Killz
Combat Log: http://www.youtube.com/user/kdsalmon/videos - Pantaloon II: Violins (Jun 23, 2013) |
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