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Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
390
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 03:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Privateer historical; an armed ship owned and crewed by private individuals holding a government commission and authorized for use in war, especially in the capture of merchant shipping. .....
Privateers is a way to expand upon the existing bounty system. Players purchase a privateer's license from any high-sec station for a specific region (ie: Forge, Citadel, etc.) The license is good for 30 days and allows players to legally hunt any ships with low security status (-4.99 to -0.01) in high-sec systems. The higher the security status, the more expensive the privateer license.
... -4.99 to -4.00: $25-million ISK ... -4.99 to -3.00: $50-million ISK ... -4.99 to -2.00: $100-million ISK ... -4.99 to -1.00: $150-million ISK ... -4.99 to -0.01: $250-million ISK
Eligible targets automatically appear as suspect for engagement. Players with a security status of 0.0 or higher are ineligible targets until they drop below 0.0. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Allandri
Liandri Industrial Liandri Covenant
60
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 05:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why? You can do this now if you do it away from stations and gates |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
393
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 05:48:00 -
[3] - Quote
Allandri wrote:Why? You can do this now if you do it away from stations and gates That's called "ganking" (suicide). This would be for targets with -4.9 to -0.1 security status. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Cheng Musana
BetaMax Beta
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 07:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Most pirates have alts which they use for shopping and shipping ships. Its rare that i see some 1 with low sec status in highsec and if he is dumb enough to go to a tradehub he usually gets insta killed by the locals sitting infront the station looking for people with killrights/low sec status. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
394
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 07:35:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cheng Musana wrote:Most pirates have alts which they use for shopping and shipping ships. Its rare that i see some 1 with low sec status in highsec and if he is dumb enough to go to a tradehub he usually gets insta killed by the locals sitting infront the station looking for people with killrights/low sec status. Valid point. Revised the security status for privateering to between -1.9 and -0.1. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
204
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 13:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Okay, but then if you have sec status lower than 0 you can go to the pirate stations in low/null and buy a ninja kit.
A ninja kit, designed for assassinating those who love their high sec status, lets you gank them and vanish before CONCORD arrives! The higher the victim's sec status the slower CONCORD responds.
Alright, on a serious note: no.
-1.9/-0.1 aren't scum, they're just shifty. In fact, none of them are scum (well, I guess sides from SCUM. ? That's kind of... self-descriptory), they're just pirates who want to make a living. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15597
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 13:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
If you want to shoot them, then shoot them. But you pay the consequence of such an action, as they would.
In other words, no.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
353
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 16:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
If the pirates can get a (for example) guristas hunting license and can freely attack mission runners that attack Gurista assets, sure, why not? I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC. -- TheGunslinger42 "**** goons, they only kill stuff that can't shoot back, they aren't killing us fast enough, they missed my ****** Ibis so they failed, CCP ban goons they shot my ship." -- Distracted |
Angeal MacNova
XDraconis CombineX
100
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 19:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
People with a sec status of -5 and lower can be engaged freely already. I see very few people with a -5 or lower sec status in hi-sec. What is it? You can only enter hi-sec in your pod or in specific ships (eg. shuttle) or else CONCORD will respond?
I see where you're going with this though. Purhaps a little limitation on it.
It's 50M/week for a corp to war dec another. Maybe 5 or 10 million per week since this is based on an individual player level and not a corp level (If the member of a corp/alliance pays for this service, only that member is given the freedom).
For every sec status higher than -5, the person doing the 'hunting' must have a positive sec status of 1 up from 0.
So to break it down...
You must have a sec status of 1 to kill anyone with a sec status of -4 or lower Status of 2 to kill -3 or lower Status of 3 to kill - 2 or lower Status of 4 to kill - 1 or lower Status of 5 to kill anyone with less than 0 sec status.
Having a security status higher than 5 doesn't mean anything more as you'll never be allowed to engage someone with a security status equal to or greater than 0.
Now I know you adjusted it to cover what CONCORD won't but this isn't about CONCORD response WRT the player's negative security status and the security level of the system they are in. It's about a player's ability to engage another player based on that other player's security status without CONCORD involvement.
Paying a fee in a similar fashion to a war dec and include the full spectrum of security status. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
396
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 19:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:People with a sec status of -5 and lower can be engaged freely already. I see very few people with a -5 or lower sec status in hi-sec. What is it? You can only enter hi-sec in your pod or in specific ships (eg. shuttle) or else CONCORD will respond?
I see where you're going with this though. Purhaps a little limitation on it.
It's 50M/week for a corp to war dec another. Maybe 5 or 10 million per week since this is based on an individual player level and not a corp level (If the member of a corp/alliance pays for this service, only that member is given the freedom).
For every sec status higher than -5, the person doing the 'hunting' must have a positive sec status of 1 up from 0.
So to break it down...
You must have a sec status of 1 to kill anyone with a sec status of -4 or lower Status of 2 to kill -3 or lower Status of 3 to kill - 2 or lower Status of 4 to kill - 1 or lower Status of 5 to kill anyone with less than 0 sec status.
Having a security status higher than 5 doesn't mean anything more as you'll never be allowed to engage someone with a security status equal to or greater than 0.
Now I know you adjusted it to cover what CONCORD won't but this isn't about CONCORD response WRT the player's negative security status and the security level of the system they are in. It's about a player's ability to engage another player based on that other player's security status without CONCORD involvement.
Paying a fee in a similar fashion to a war dec and include the full spectrum of security status. I like your suggestions - they're a good improvement (mind if I amend the original post?) Especially the part about requiring a higher security status. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
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Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
355
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 19:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Cheng Musana wrote:Most pirates have alts which they use for shopping and shipping ships. Its rare that i see some 1 with low sec status in highsec and if he is dumb enough to go to a tradehub he usually gets insta killed by the locals sitting infront the station looking for people with killrights/low sec status. Valid point. Revised the security status for privateering to between -1.9 and -0.1.
Sounds like you are just trying to get easy kills for little to no risk. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
396
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 19:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote:Sounds like you are just trying to get easy kills for little to no risk. No, what it's saying is that you can live in your world (low and null-sec), but don't expect to play in ours (high-sec) if you don't have a decent security status. Completely fair since high-sec players can be ganked by low-sec players at any time, with little or no recourse available to them. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
15602
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 20:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Sean Parisi wrote:Sounds like you are just trying to get easy kills for little to no risk. No, what it's saying is that you can live in your world (low and null-sec), but don't expect to play in ours (high-sec) if you don't have a decent security status. Completely fair since high-sec players can be ganked by low-sec players at any time, with little or no recourse available to them. No recourse available? I didn't know high sec players were not permitted to gank people in low sec.
Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
353
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 20:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mag's wrote:No recourse available? I didn't know high sec players were not permitted to gank people in low sec.
Low-sec is full of pirates. It's impossible to go there because you will get killed when you enter any low-sec system. Never leave high-sec!
I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC. -- TheGunslinger42 "**** goons, they only kill stuff that can't shoot back, they aren't killing us fast enough, they missed my ****** Ibis so they failed, CCP ban goons they shot my ship." -- Distracted |
Sipphakta en Gravonere
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
353
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 20:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Sean Parisi wrote:Sounds like you are just trying to get easy kills for little to no risk. No, what it's saying is that you can live in your world (low and null-sec), but don't expect to play in ours (high-sec) if you don't have a decent security status.
I thought that Eve's marketing slogan was along the line "ONE universe". How wrong I was. High-sec4lyfe!
I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC. -- TheGunslinger42 "**** goons, they only kill stuff that can't shoot back, they aren't killing us fast enough, they missed my ****** Ibis so they failed, CCP ban goons they shot my ship." -- Distracted |
Robbie Robot
Exiled Kings SCUM.
26
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 20:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Sean Parisi wrote:Sounds like you are just trying to get easy kills for little to no risk. No, what it's saying is that you can live in your world (low and null-sec), but don't expect to play in ours (high-sec) if you don't have a decent security status. Completely fair since high-sec players can be ganked by low-sec players at any time, with little or no recourse available to them. No recourse available? I didn't know high sec players were not permitted to gank people in low sec. In addition, all of these SCUM. bags with -5 status can be freely engaged by you high seccers without penalty, and without gate guns firing on you. I'd give you advice on how to do this, but how about instead of free advice, you just try piracy?
Also, why would Amarr let you shoot me? The Amarr empire loves me. I have +8 standing with them. Now, if this permit allowed you to shoot people based on empire standing, that would make sense, and if it then would make you get shot by NPC's in their opponents space, like minmatar if you were Amarr aligned, that would also make sense. How about we add little missions you can accomplish as a privateer too, for LP to an exclusive store that has exclusive items and some items that are cheaper there than in regular stores? Next, we can call it Faction Combat, or Warfare. |
Urkhan Law
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
24
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Posted - 2013.10.24 20:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:No, what it's saying is that you can live in your world (low and null-sec), but don't expect to play in ours (high-sec) if you don't have a decent security status. Completely fair since high-sec players can be ganked by low-sec players at any time, with little or no recourse available to them. And the evil piwates can be killed in low-sec by high-sec people with the help of gate guns. Make the pirate faction appear, web, scram and kill you if you enter low sec with a positive security status. And low sec gate guns should help people bellow -5, not above.
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Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
396
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 21:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Robbie Robot wrote:In addition, all of these SCUM. bags with -5 status can be freely engaged by you high seccers without penalty, and without gate guns firing on you. I'd give you advice on how to do this, but how about instead of free advice, you just try piracy?
Also, why would Amarr let you shoot me? The Amarr empire loves me. I have +8 standing with them. Now, if this permit allowed you to shoot people based on empire standing, that would make sense, and if it then would make you get shot by NPC's in their opponents space, like minmatar if you were Amarr aligned, that would also make sense. How about we add little missions you can accomplish as a privateer too, for LP to an exclusive store that has exclusive items and some items that are cheaper there than in regular stores? Next, we can call it Faction Combat, or Warfare. It's not just high-secers that get to engage -5 status players in high-sec. It's anyone. Faction Standing is an interesting idea; maybe that's a better proposal than security status (which is somewhat covered already to an extent). Mind if I borrow it? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Iudicium Vastus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
110
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 21:58:00 -
[19] - Quote
Mag's wrote:No recourse available? I didn't know high sec players were not permitted to gank people in low sec.
Of course that's possible, but not a logical way of working it within law enforcement. Attacking a -4.99 person in lowsec still gains yourself sec loss and global tag.
Maybe not in the manner presented in OP, but some sort of profession in attacking -4.9 to -.1 without own sec loss sounds pretty fun. Pirates have their total freedom in operating in low and even hi with workarounds and proudly wear a negative sec badge, why is there no true 'player empire law enforcement' to reward and proudly wear a positive sec stat.
Also, if such a thing as an official empire aligned player law enforcement came to be, then it could lay some foundation for true pirate alignment for players as well (blood raiders, sansha, etc). Which I know pirate scum are just itching for. lol. Right? Don't deny it
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Bischopt
Arbitrary Repossession
291
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 22:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
This sounds more like being a debuty or something.
Privateers were essentially pirates that (secretly) worked for a government rather than just themselves. Not so much heroes seeking out and killing pirates but pirates seeking out and sinking cargo ships.
About the actual mechanic: It sounds a little one-sided. "privateers" waiting to attack people who aren't really even criminals (if you're still above -5.0 you can't be that bad). I don't think I saw any mention about whether or not the targets can see the privateer as a threat before they've already been attacked. Even more importantly, they probably wouldn't have the advantage of attacking first, because the privateers would have a high security status.
The privateers would have a massive (=unfair) advantage because they could attack at will while the other party would be blind and defenseless until the assault. That's really just ganking. In highsec. |
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Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
396
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 23:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bischopt wrote:This sounds more like being a debuty or something.
Privateers were essentially pirates that (secretly) worked for a government rather than just themselves. Not so much heroes seeking out and killing pirates but pirates seeking out and sinking cargo ships.
About the actual mechanic: It sounds a little one-sided. "privateers" waiting to attack people who aren't really even criminals (if you're still above -5.0 you can't be that bad). I don't think I saw any mention about whether or not the targets can see the privateer as a threat before they've already been attacked. Even more importantly, they probably wouldn't have the advantage of attacking first, because the privateers would have a high security status.
The privateers would have a massive (=unfair) advantage because they could attack at will while the other party would be blind and defenseless until the assault. That's really just ganking. In highsec. It's more like being a Privateer, actually. The ocean was fairly vast, and this was a legal way for empires to raid the commerce of their enemies. This wasn't so much pirating as it was... free enterprise. Pirating came into play when it was more lucrative either to cut the crown out of their commission or raid both sides. Which is exactly what this proposes. And space is indeed vast...
Since there's already a mechanic in-place for security status, I've revised this to Faction standings. Unless you're accepting a lot of the "bad" missions or running amok of customs officials, you should have a neutral or positive faction standing. Anything above 0.0 for that Faction and you're safe anywhere in their high-sec Empire space.
However... if you dip below 0.0, you begin to run the risk of any Privateers licensed by that Empire while in their space. This is strictly a player-player mechanic (there's no Empire intervention as there is with security status). And it's not merely ganking in high-sec, since you have to have a Faction (not corporate) standing in excess of 5.0 to be licensed to begin with. And if that isn't maintained through continued good deeds, well - your license is forfeited. It's a lot easier to lose Faction standing than it is to gain it. Another way to look at this is PvP "lite" for high-sec mission runners (our version of Faction Warfare in low-sec).
And it's not like players can't fight back. I mean, after all - this is what all the low-sec folk keep telling us... right?
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Robbie Robot
Exiled Kings SCUM.
27
|
Posted - 2013.10.24 23:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Robbie Robot wrote:In addition, all of these SCUM. bags with -5 status can be freely engaged by you high seccers without penalty, and without gate guns firing on you. I'd give you advice on how to do this, but how about instead of free advice, you just try piracy?
Also, why would Amarr let you shoot me? The Amarr empire loves me. I have +8 standing with them. Now, if this permit allowed you to shoot people based on empire standing, that would make sense, and if it then would make you get shot by NPC's in their opponents space, like minmatar if you were Amarr aligned, that would also make sense. How about we add little missions you can accomplish as a privateer too, for LP to an exclusive store that has exclusive items and some items that are cheaper there than in regular stores? Next, we can call it Faction Combat, or Warfare. It's not just high-secers that get to engage -5 status players in high-sec. It's anyone. Faction Standing is an interesting idea; maybe that's a better proposal than security status (which is somewhat covered already to an extent). Mind if I borrow it? I failed at trolling. Didn't you see what I outlined was Factional Warfare? That is essentially what you are proposing. I don't know if you just don't know EVE well enough to know similar game features are already here. If you join the amarr in FW, you get free license to shoot all the evil minmatar FW people, even in high sec. You also get LP for killing them in the FW play field, LP which is VERY valuable, because of the above 'proposed' LP store (hint, navy harbingers are amarr FW stores only).
People are considered 'outlaws' when they are -5. You are proposing shooting people that are not outlaws. The consequences you propose is like getting your car repossessed because you jay walk. It is expected that crime happens in EVE. The cops don't even pursue you if you steal. Infact, they even forgive your misdeeds if you kill rats.
:edit: I reread what you propose. Do you know how many Low Sec pirates have excellent empire standing? I'll give you a preview. All the top PvP'er in my corp ran missions once, for a very long time. I'm not sure what your exact goal is. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
397
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 00:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
Robbie Robot wrote:I failed at trolling. Didn't you see what I outlined was Factional Warfare? That is essentially what you are proposing. I don't know if you just don't know EVE well enough to know similar game features are already here. If you join the amarr in FW, you get free license to shoot all the evil minmatar FW people, even in high sec. You also get LP for killing them in the FW play field, LP which is VERY valuable, because of the above 'proposed' LP store (hint, navy harbingers are amarr FW stores only).
People are considered 'outlaws' when they are -5. You are proposing shooting people that are not outlaws. The consequences you propose is like getting your car repossessed because you jay walk. It is expected that crime happens in EVE. The cops don't even pursue you if you steal. Infact, they even forgive your misdeeds if you kill rats.
:edit: I reread what you propose. Do you know how many Low Sec pirates have excellent empire standing? I'll give you a preview. All the top PvP'er in my corp ran missions once, for a very long time. I'm not sure what your exact goal is. You know what they say... If at first you don't succeed.
I do understand how FW works. There are quite a few differences, namely that it doesn't cost anything for you to enroll (and I'm fairly certain they'll take just about anyone). You can also earn LP and ISK in FW, and with the Privateer idea your only ISK potential is through combat (with no guarantees). But FW is also specific to low-sec.
For as many low or null-sec players that have excellent faction standings, there are probably an equal number of players (regardless of where they call home) that transit through various high-sec Empire systems with crappy standings. Why? Because anything down to -4.9 isn't any kind of offense. You can even skirt most gates with a -5.0 or less rating.
Privateers is for this group. And there's really no reason why they couldn't and shouldn't be hunted down. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
806
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 01:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
as long as those with in the profession are auto suspect to peeps with offending sec status There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
397
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 02:27:00 -
[25] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:as long as those with in the profession are auto suspect to peeps with offending sec status Suspect, no. But they could be tagged with an icon designating them as a Privateer. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
3495
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 03:00:00 -
[26] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:It's more like being a Privateer, actually. The ocean was fairly vast, and this was a legal way for empires to raid the commerce of their enemies. This wasn't so much pirating as it was... free enterprise. Poh-tay-toe... Poh-tah-toe.
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Pirating came into play when it was more lucrative either to cut the crown out of their commission or raid both sides. Which is exactly what this proposes. And space is indeed vast...
Since there's already a mechanic in-place for security status, I've revised this to Faction standings. In which case, you have "recreated" Faction Warfare... but with standings as the primary basis for it. People in the militias more closely conform to the definition of "privateers" as they are 3rd parties acting at the behest of a sovereign nation against another (but don't exactly follow the rules of the regular navy if it doesn't suit them).
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Unless you're accepting a lot of the "bad" missions or running amok of customs officials, you should have a neutral or positive faction standing. Anything above 0.0 for that Faction and you're safe anywhere in their high-sec Empire space. Interesting fact: every mission you accept lowers or raises your standings with the other empires (the anti-faction missions just do it more so).
The exact math escapes me... but it's very possible to have poor faction standings even if all you do is kill pirate NPCs (my alt has -3 standings with Amarr and -1.3 standings with Caldari for running too many missions for the Minmatar... and I have never done an anti-faction mission against either). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
397
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 03:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:The exact math escapes me... but it's very possible to have poor faction standings even if all you do is kill pirate NPCs (my alt has -3 standings with Amarr and -1.3 standings with Caldari for running too many missions for the Minmatar... and I have never done an anti-faction mission against either). I guess that's only a problem if you frequent Jita often. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Angeal MacNova
XDraconis CombineX
100
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 03:54:00 -
[28] - Quote
God damn them all! I was told we'd cruise the seas for American gold We'd fire no guns-shed no tears Now I'm a broken man on a Halifax pier The last of Barrett's Privateers.
Sorry. All this talk of being privateers. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
806
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 10:20:00 -
[29] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:as long as those with in the profession are auto suspect to peeps with offending sec status Suspect, no. But they could be tagged with an icon designating them as a Privateer.
so u can see them coming, but can do nothing about it until they fire upon u?
another winning idea arthur ... There are no vets in EVE. Only varying levels of Noobery. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
397
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 11:11:00 -
[30] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:so u can see them coming, but can do nothing about it until they fire upon u? another winning idea arthur ... Leaving the area is out of the realm of possibilities?
I appreciate where you're coming from, but you're not completely considering the actual mechanic here. Privateers was intended more as a solo role, and if they were automatically made suspect all we'd see are roving gangs from low-sec venturing into high-sec for the sole purpose of legally shooting Privateers. Perhaps you hadn't considered that (or maybe that was the intent?), but you'd kill the entire concept from the outset.
I'm not opposed to something along the lines of giving Privateers a suspect timer for enemy ships *after* they initiate combat, but I think to avoid skewing things they still need to have limited CONCORD protection in high-sec. There's nothing stopping those determined from outright ganking Privateers, either. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
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