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Vizard
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Posted - 2006.02.05 04:24:00 -
[31]
Would you all like some Cheese with your WHINE!!
What is your problem, are there not enough lawyer Bull**** in real life.
This is a game a PvP game By DESIGN.
If your an idiot enough to haul 100mil or more cargo in one ship with out proper support your an IDIOT!
I will tell you right now that if you drive down the street in most large cities with bags of money sitting out were people can see it you would be car jacked and I bet killed, atleast in high sec you get away without being podded in most cases.
Now go home to mommy and stop crying.
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Jhonen Senraedi
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Posted - 2006.02.05 05:23:00 -
[32]
Hey Vizard stop smacking like a kid and answer the post in a more mature manner...W*nker
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Vizard
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Posted - 2006.02.05 07:28:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Jhonen Senraedi Edited by: Jhonen Senraedi on 05/02/2006 05:41:50 Hey Vizard stop smacking like a kid and answer the post in a more mature manner...We're trying to have a reasoned and reasonable discussion without all the CS kiddy talk...
And mate..I ain't whining...I made the cash back and a lot more in a couple of days speculation so no big deal....Just trying to make the universe more dynamic....But if you're not into ideas being tossed around then ..pray tell...Why are you checking this sub-forum?
There are alot of good IDEAS that come through here, this is not one of them
I was talking about the post of wanting litigation against players for actions.
I mean come on!
If you want to play without PvP in a game were no danger, this is not the game you should play.
The tactics these Pirates used is unique not the norm.
There is many TRUE game issues that for one I find need fixing and for two are valid, this is not.
Like the days of Pirates on the High seas they watched the ships and waited for the best time and prize to attack.
The Raven was a little much, I would of used a different setup less expensive. But when your Insurance is about to expire why not get a Pay-out.
I salute the pirates on a Job Well done
Arrrrrrrrrrr....
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whejl
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Posted - 2006.02.05 12:52:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Jhonen Senraedi
Funny how in any ofthese sort of threads...the long time players etc. always say everything is ok....probably because they have 100's of millions of isk etc.Too many damned elitists here who think because they've been around longer then they are more important...
We are more important.
Originally by: Jhonen Senraedi
NEWSFLASH
Those of us in for a month or two are just as important...we pay exactly the same amount per month as you do.....!
Which gives us oldies the other 33 or so months of earlier payments, finiancing the game, servers and development to the point it is today.
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Jhonen Senraedi
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Posted - 2006.02.05 17:52:00 -
[35]
Seems some of you are missing the point....
1/The legal litigation etc. was not a suggested player v player mechanism...more a rp player v the authorities/local government etc..which I believe I did say.If a local police force fails in it's duty to protect a community(In our day at least)It is open to proceedings where a plaintiff can try and secure damages and be compensated for their failure to protect.
2/The mechansim where a person with an expiring insurance..or any insurance for that matter,can use it as a tool to profit from crime is unrealistic.Some say why would they be insured for battle..i.e Alliance/Corp wars etc....well that can be looked on as a corporate situation...i.e the insurer wishes to maintain the goodwill and profits from insuring these craft due to standing and business with the corps and alliances.
However it is unrealistic to expect an insurer to support criminal activities by paying out for suicide ganks.Just like in real life...if suicide or a deliberate calculated act on the part of the insured is responsible for loss etc then the insurer would not pay out...and ,as has happened in some cases,would most likely be investigated and possibly brought to book both with criminal litigation and civil action...the latter for the insured's victims.
And to the last poster..hmm so you vets are more important than the rest of us...ok..guess we should all just give you all our isk..gear and ships and quit because you are all so Godly?..I'm sure CCP see your money as somehow more holy????
Also don't forget that sure you helped get the game to where it is today..but without new blood it would stagnate and become a clique community...and that in the past you had better loot drops and the like so..in some ways it's tougher to make it for the newer player...but essentially they are and always will be as important as the vets out there.
I mean by your theory ...anyone who has been on the planet longer than you is more importanty than you...
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Nimie
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Posted - 2006.02.05 18:52:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Vizard Would you all like some Cheese with your WHINE!!
What is your problem, are there not enough lawyer Bull**** in real life.
This is a game a PvP game By DESIGN.
If your an idiot enough to haul 100mil or more cargo in one ship with out proper support your an IDIOT!
I will tell you right now that if you drive down the street in most large cities with bags of money sitting out were people can see it you would be car jacked and I bet killed, atleast in high sec you get away without being podded in most cases.
Now go home to mommy and stop crying.
noone is arguing that this isn't a pvp game. the question is how much pvp it is. also, 100m isn't much. the whole purpose of an indy is to carry alot of stuff. unless you are using indys only for carrying trit and pye, you can easily get more than 100m in your indy.
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Nimie
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Posted - 2006.02.05 19:01:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Nimie on 05/02/2006 19:04:31
Originally by: Vizard
If you want to play without PvP in a game were no danger, this is not the game you should play.
The tactics these Pirates used is unique not the norm.
it's not that we want a game with no danger. it's more like wanting a safe spot to go when you want to relax in peace. i always thought the game was meant to be there was one area that was relatively dangerous and one area that was relatively dangerous and not that all areas was relatively dangerous. these tactis are not unique. they are getting very common. kisago is not a trade hub for instance, but has huge amounts of ships killed per hr. the number of ships killed in kisago can go above what most of low sec can produce.
also, 100m is a joke. with a 3b assests in rens, it would take me 1200+ jumps to move my stuff to jita. this is incredibly stupid that i have to carry less than 100m or move through empire space full of wcs and plates as if there was a war going on.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.02.05 19:13:00 -
[38]
Missing the point entirely. You shouldn't be shipping large amounts of stuff in an undefended transport. Get an escort already.
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Nimie
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Posted - 2006.02.05 19:23:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Nimie on 05/02/2006 19:23:17
Originally by: Joerd Toastius Missing the point entirely. You shouldn't be shipping large amounts of stuff in an undefended transport. Get an escort already.
you are the one missing the point. 100m is not "alot of stuff". i should not need an escort or wcs and plates to move 100m worth of stuff in empire.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.02.05 22:16:00 -
[40]
I think there is a clause in "real life" life insurance that voids it if the insured was killed "by a member of any law engorcement agency in the pursuit of his duty". I'd tend to agree that insurance for kills by Concord shouldn't pay out, and those who have little "accidents" might be less likely to have them in future.
Yes, I have had little accidents with Concord myself, no I wouldn't have whinged if the insurance was withheld, as long as that was made clear when I took out the policy.
Originally by: Avon Your sig is always a welcome sight... ...it means I've got to the end of your post.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.02.05 22:20:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Nimie Edited by: Nimie on 05/02/2006 19:39:51
Originally by: Joerd Toastius Missing the point entirely. You shouldn't be shipping large amounts of stuff in an undefended transport. Get an escort already.
you are the one missing the point. 100m is not "alot of stuff". 100 is a "small amount."i should not need an escort or wcs and plates to move a "small amount" worth of stuff in empire.
As far as I can tell, you're ALL missing the point...the op's not complaining that he shouldn't have been ganked. He's complaining that it's unfair that the ganker gets the insurance on his ship.
Since people WILL insist on real life analogies...it's like someone ramraiding a Mercedes in an old clapped out Honda Civic, the police then blowing the crap out of said Honda Civic, and the ramraider claiming on his insurance for the damage the police did to the car.
Yes, that MIGHT happen in America, but most of what happens in America doesn't count as a real life analogy.
Originally by: Avon Your sig is always a welcome sight... ...it means I've got to the end of your post.
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Che Hermez
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Posted - 2006.02.05 22:59:00 -
[42]
From a storyline point of view I agree with the OP. But it would lead to other things. People with negative sec can buy insurance, even though they are known criminals? Seems odd that. People who are in corps in CONCORD registered wars go out and buy insurance. Do these insurance companies carry out no background checks? I have known people buy, insure and lose 3 bs in a night. If a household insurance company was to insure a guy 3 times in a row for houses that burnt down on the day he bought the insurance, I doubt they would stay in business. I know I'm going down the "real-life analogy for virtual scenario" route, but Sharcy started it :P
Voiding insurance for concord kills might sound like a nice idea for prevention of suicide piracy, but with the buggy state of the overview it would make empire war nearly impossible (or at least incredibly expensive) to conduct. Stiffer sec hits are a better idea, but i don't think its necessary. Its not hard to make a set of instas for your trip before you go, fit stabs and/or nanos, carry things in less obvious ships etc etc.
I have been playing the game three years, but I'm no elitist. Many players only 6 months old have MUCH more isk than me, and if I lost 100 mill (which is apparently a small amount) in a hauler i would be mighty annoyed, but probably more with myself for being too lazy, stupid or brave to take some of the steps I detailed above.
In summary, I reject Sharcy's proposal. Thank you for your time.
PER SCIENCIA AD ASTRA
ETHICS IS JUST ANOTHER EXCUSE TO STAY WEAK
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.02.05 23:14:00 -
[43]
Analogies suck. Use some actual reasoning and this argument might go somewhere.
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.02.05 23:15:00 -
[44]
Well, even given the eloquent post above from Che, I think he still feels that SOMEthing has to be done to prevnet the rise in suicide piracy...it's a low form of playing...regardless of the value of cargo, a 1.0 system is supposed to offer protection from random gankings (not sanctioned wars, in other words) and a small section of the player base have found a way to minimise their losses so as to be able to carry it out.
Suggestion: Should Concord pod people who DESTROY another ship in 0.5+ sec (sanctioned wars excluded)?
Firing on them would result in the normal ship destruction...but blowing up their ship would get them podded.
Accidents would still pay out insurance, and as long as the player didn't carry through the attack to destruction, no podding would take place...so actually no different from the system now...but to continue and destroy the target would result in a podding...I can see how you might accidentally FIRE on a ship, but it's a bit much to accidentally DESTROY one...
And yes, a battleship might get lucky (or should that be unlucky, if it's an accident?) and one-shot a frigate. Does it seem harsh that the battleship player gets podded...yes, a little, if it was a genuine accident. But if you're in a BATTLESHIP, you should damned well know better by now...
Originally by: Avon Your sig is always a welcome sight... ...it means I've got to the end of your post.
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Strongarm Sally
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Posted - 2006.02.05 23:40:00 -
[45]
I tend to agree with those that warn haulers to bring an escort and make instas. I've been playing for nearly 3 years myself and the ONLY time I end up getting ganked (in ANY system) is when I get lazy or stupid.
I do see the point someone made about ship insurance now paying out more than the ship is worth - that is mainly thanks to our friendly macros and farmiers selling that isk on ebay (its down to $20 now? wow...). The massive influx of minerals has made the once elite battleship a mere weeks savings more than a frigate, and that sux.
Insurance has always been a bit whacked tho. It never takes into account any fittings on the ship, but as we know, you could easily insure the ship with a 200m setup then change it out to a 200k setup and reap the rewards that way, so I'm kinda glad it is the way it is. I DO think, however, insuance should be based on the average regional price and NOT the npc price of the mineral content. That way, if the price goes up again, people are still covered, while not allowing profits from low cost sales.
One other little thing: There is NO ACCIDENTAL firing... All you vets should have pointed that out. The very first time you try to shoot another player, or good npc, you get that stupid pop-up (one for each weapon you tried to fire, too). If n00bs turn that off, they deserve to get concord ganked. There is, however, that messed up overview, but in time that will be fixed... probably just like drones got fixed :-/ Oh, well.
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Ayla Vanir
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Posted - 2006.02.06 02:28:00 -
[46]
Nice idea. Void insurance for illegal activity. I'd voice support for this - no real downside to it as far as I can tell.
Escrow Market Revamp
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.02.06 10:27:00 -
[47]
You can't make ins depend on average price because it's absurdly easy to manipulate.
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Pesadel0
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Posted - 2006.02.06 10:57:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Pesadel0 on 06/02/2006 10:58:02 I agree with the OP ideia and make it so that all -10 can roam the 1.0 secure space like all the serpentis,angels,sansha,drones etc .
I would be a happy man to go to jita ,rens every friday and kill 200 guys now that would be fun ^^
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Moirane
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Posted - 2006.02.06 11:29:00 -
[49]
i have 3 words for thoose who carry goods worth ****loads of ISK GIANT SECURE CANS
prevents ppl from using whatever u'r carrying, makes they're sacrifice not worth much.
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Sharcy
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Posted - 2006.02.06 13:55:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius Missing the point entirely. You shouldn't be shipping large amounts of stuff in an undefended transport. Get an escort already.
The one who's missing the point here is you and all the other loudmouths who claim my post is a whine for more safety. Read it again and you'll see it's not. Drizit's post was excellent in describing the issue. - PVP is not the issue - Safety is not the issue - Piracy is not the issue - RL vs Game is not the issue The issue is that killing another player in hi sec has been deemed illegal by CONCORD, punishable by destruction. If that's the case, than paying out insurance for the same act is bizar and completely illogical.
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Sonnema is recruiting! |
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.02.06 14:26:00 -
[51]
Explain to me where my post was replying to you.
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Ayla Vanir
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Posted - 2006.02.06 14:37:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius Explain to me where my post was replying to you.
You'd posted in this thread, so there should be some level of confidence that your reply had something to do with the OP. But there's been some derailment. Soooo... back on topic:
Insurance voided for activities deemed illegal by CONCORD. Great idea. Makes perfect sense. No downside. When does it go into effect? ;)
Escrow Market Revamp
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.02.06 15:19:00 -
[53]
Good idea with the voidig insurance for illegal acts. Not gonna stop them, but makes the game more realistic.
sgb
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Chaoskeeper
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Posted - 2006.02.06 15:28:00 -
[54]
I just see some problems with this idea:
a) if you ever did a fleet battle in empire you know how fast you can target a wrong one in all the mess, so you can destroy a ship without wanting it
b) Even if the guy had traveled with escort they couldn't do anything, Raven would still kill it and complice would still take the loot. Nobody has an escort of 5 indies as backup.
c) **** happens.... I don't support those actions, no at all. But I think it's just the risk you take hauling that much isk at one time. Don't give up, 100mil isn't really alot if you work hard
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Grey Area
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Posted - 2006.02.06 15:34:00 -
[55]
Chaoskeeper;
a. You answered this with the first two words of your point c.
b. True an escort is no defence...so would you support the voiding of the insurance?
c. Yes, it does, but in this case the **** is happening to someone who was an "innocent" victim...a little naive, maybe, but still innocent. Taking the insurance payment off the suicide ganker would at least make sure that the **** was spread around a bit.
Originally by: Avon Your sig is always a welcome sight... ...it means I've got to the end of your post.
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Pang Grohl
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Posted - 2006.02.06 18:54:00 -
[56]
Having been shot at in Hi-Sec space this weekend it's time to weigh in.
I say deny the insurance pay out. Why? 2 reasons, 1) these tactics are being emulated by folks who can't correctly evaluate the risk vs. reward equation(my hold was empty when the attack happened), making the risk larger will deter this behavior until a player can make sure they have a gain on the action. 2) Since the perpetrators get to keep thier ill-gotten gains, let that be their reward for ratting in Hi-Secville.
If a rat can catch me napping in hi-sec space & my loot is more valuable than his ship, he is welcome to try to make a profit at my expense. He shouldn't be profiting even if the attempt fails.
Pang
Forum: A place where ideas come to prove their worth.
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Yurameki Daishun
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Posted - 2006.02.06 23:15:00 -
[57]
one problem with that, insurance companies may choose to be seedy and hide things from Concord, we don't know if concord even bothers to police the insurance companies, they likely don't.
Plus player corps should be able to do things like become insurance companies and such I think, make insurance more realistic, and make a lot of other things more player based to make the economy a bit more vibrant and interesting.
Also the guy that scoops the loot should be flagged as stealing from both the offending pirate and the player that got blown, so he should be shot up by concord too, but unfortunately that's not how concord works.
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Strongarm Sally
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Posted - 2006.02.07 04:46:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Yurameki Daishun ...Also the guy that scoops the loot should be flagged as stealing from both the offending pirate and the player that got blown, so he should be shot up by concord too, but unfortunately that's not how concord works.
No, but when you travel with escorts, in a gang, the thief is flagged TO THE ENTIRE GANG - I know because I hunt macros and have been flagged many, many times to entire gangs of macro-bots. This means (directed at the one above that said the accomplice would still take the loot) any escorts of the original hauler could, feasibly, fend off theft until they could get a new hauler there. Once an accomplice takes the loot and gets popped, just drop a new jet can and move the item back into your posession so the next thief gets flagged as well. Traveling with anything worth more than you can afford to lose without armed escort is plain silly.
As for the secure can trick - once that can is in MY hold and taken back to MY hangar, I can REPACK it, without the need to enter a password. While it DOES prevent someone from getting a fix on what you have in your hold, just having a secure can could be enough to trigger an incident. Add to the fact that most of these folks are talking about things WAY MORE than 3900m3 in size...
But, as it has been pointed out, that is not the issue in question. Paying insurance out to an explicitly illegal act should not be. It would be quite similar to me taking out auto insurance and getting into a high speed chase and totalling the car - think any sane insurance company will be paying for the car? It's just not practical, nor does it make any sort of sense, reality or not. Insurance companies are in it to make money, not give out a free ship with every ganking...
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Corp Scammer
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Posted - 2006.02.07 09:08:00 -
[59]
well then we need to find where the high sec gankers are and run basic industrials with sec cans with a password something like t2 BPO - when they gank u they loose a lot and of course there isnt a t2 BPO in the first place.
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Sharcy
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Posted - 2006.02.07 10:10:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Joerd Toastius Explain to me where my post was replying to you.
Well, as I didn't see you quote anyone.... <points to Quote option above ^^^^>
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Sonnema is recruiting! |
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