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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Nanatoa
371
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Posted - 2013.10.26 01:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
It has become harder and harder for MD to function properly where loan requests are concerned, as it is now illegal to mention mains/alts/related characters and any critical cross-examination of the person requesting the loan is considered a 'personal attack'. Whereas MD has historically dealt with frivolous loan requests by a combination of sarcasm and proper critical analysis, a new strategy will have to be found.
I propose that from now on any frivolous loan request will be reported either for begging - which is what requesting a loan without being subjected to proper analysis is - or, in the case of repeat offenders, trolling. Because that's what repeatedly asking for loans with no collateral is. Their motto is "if at first you don't succeed, try again" and all they accomplish is getting MD regulars riled up and breaking forum rules. It's a textbook definition of trolling. With all frivolous loan requests getting insta-locked, MD will be a better place. So from now on, report any thread which smells fishy! "Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011
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Adunh Slavy
1282
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Posted - 2013.10.26 03:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Could just ignore them Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.-á-á- William Pitt |
OllieNorth
Recidivists Incorporated
236
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Posted - 2013.10.26 15:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
I generally just pledge 20b. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1516
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Posted - 2013.10.26 15:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yeah, maybe just stop pretending there ever was or ever will be some legitimate system of loans that requires defending, and just treat everything like the intentional scam or disaster in the making that it most likely is. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
flakeys
Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans
1560
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Posted - 2013.10.26 15:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Yeah, maybe just stop pretending there ever was or ever will be some legitimate system of loans that requires defending, and just treat everything like the intentional scam or disaster in the making that it most likely is.
So basically what we got going since ebank playtime ?
Check
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1047
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Posted - 2013.10.27 22:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'll provide 1500m to Nanatoa's request. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. The difference between an enemy and a friend is that you stab your enemies in the front. |
Samroski
Games Inc. The Night Crew Alliance
288
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Posted - 2013.10.28 04:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
I appreciate the deep thought behind your strategy, though the pitfall may be the step where threads require reporting. In light of recent events, I have lost what little faith I had in the system.
MD is best left to self-moderation. The sarcasm may be tough for newcomers to pick up and a few feathers may get burnt, but hey! Eve has a learning curve. My advice: keep pledging 20b. Any colour you like. |
Inignort Err
SchmeckTel Group
6
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Posted - 2013.10.29 17:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Nanatoa wrote:It has become harder and harder for MD to function properly where loan requests are concerned, as it is now illegal to mention mains/alts/related characters and any critical cross-examination of the person requesting the loan is considered a 'personal attack'. Whereas MD has historically dealt with frivolous loan requests by a combination of sarcasm and proper critical analysis, a new strategy will have to be found.
I propose that from now on any frivolous loan request will be reported either for begging - which is what requesting a loan without being subjected to proper analysis is - or, in the case of repeat offenders, trolling. Because that's what repeatedly asking for loans with no collateral is. Their motto is "if at first you don't succeed, try again" and all they accomplish is getting MD regulars riled up and breaking forum rules. It's a textbook definition of trolling. With all frivolous loan requests getting insta-locked, MD will be a better place. So from now on, report any thread which smells fishy!
I wasn't going to ask for a loan but now for s&s's I could use one, no, two billion ISK. So I'm a beggar. I guess that is the 'fishy' qualification. Now, I have billions in collateral available but don't want to assume any risk. So, that qualifies me as being 'frivolous' (with your money - which is what I assume the intent of the label is).
I'm doomed. I'll never achieve elite status and feel I can shape the playing field for my own benefit.
EVE = Formula One -á* -áSWTOR = Indy Car -á* WOW = NASCAR DUCY? |
Magnu Stormhawk
Stormhawk Enterprises
31
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Posted - 2013.10.30 09:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nanatoa wrote: it is now illegal to mention mains/alts/related characters and any critical cross-examination of the person requesting the loan is considered a 'personal attack'
Wait what? Did is miss something? (highly likely as my lurking has been limited in recent months) |
RAW23
366
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Posted - 2013.10.30 13:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Magnu Stormhawk wrote:Nanatoa wrote: it is now illegal to mention mains/alts/related characters and any critical cross-examination of the person requesting the loan is considered a 'personal attack' Wait what? Did is miss something? (highly likely as my lurking has been limited in recent months)
Some rather heavy handed moderation removed posts that were scrutinising a loan request and later an ISD posted in the thread confirming that the moderation had been correct. However, things aren't as bleak as they seem - despite the denial of any error and without announcing the fact, most of the important posts were actually restored. In addition, it has been confirmed to me through other channels that we can carry on with business as normal and that the only posts that aren't allowed are the ones with insults but no analytical content. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
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CCP Eterne
C C P C C P Alliance
2911
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Posted - 2013.10.30 14:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
It is not illegal to mention known alts of players when discussing loan requests or any other business ventures they are proposing. As long as you are not revealing any real life information or information on their account, it is acceptable. EVE Online/DUST 514 Community Representative GÇ+ EVE Illuminati GÇ+ Fiction Adept
@CCP_Eterne GÇ+ @EVE_LiveEvents |
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Nanatoa
382
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Posted - 2013.10.30 15:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Well I'm happy that has been cleared up. "Stay the course, we have done this many times before." - (CCP) Hilmar, June 2011
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Magnu Stormhawk
Stormhawk Enterprises
31
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Phew.
Next contestant then! |
flakeys
Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans
1584
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Posted - 2013.10.30 17:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote:It is not illegal to mention known alts of players when discussing loan requests or any other business ventures they are proposing. As long as you are not revealing any real life information or information on their account, it is acceptable.
Allthough a dev mentioned the opposite in ''the impersonation threadnaught'' i'll take this quote for what it is and bookmark it for ''emergency use''
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1524
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Posted - 2013.10.30 17:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
flakeys wrote:CCP Eterne wrote:It is not illegal to mention known alts of players when discussing loan requests or any other business ventures they are proposing. As long as you are not revealing any real life information or information on their account, it is acceptable. Allthough a dev mentioned the opposite in ''the impersonation threadnaught'' i'll take this quote for what it is and bookmark it for ''emergency use'' same here.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations CODE.
1912
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Posted - 2013.10.31 14:43:00 -
[16] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:flakeys wrote:CCP Eterne wrote:It is not illegal to mention known alts of players when discussing loan requests or any other business ventures they are proposing. As long as you are not revealing any real life information or information on their account, it is acceptable. Allthough a dev mentioned the opposite in ''the impersonation threadnaught'' i'll take this quote for what it is and bookmark it for ''emergency use'' same here.
I too shall bookmark this for future precedence use. See Bio for isk doubling rules. -áIf you didn't read bio, chances are you helped fund those who did. |
Jdestars
Stars Research systems Incorporation
4
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Posted - 2013.11.05 08:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nanatoa wrote:It I propose that from now on any frivolous loan request will be reported either for begging - which is what requesting a loan without being subjected to proper analysis is ..!
Loan are not a implanted feature of Eve so its the opend door to scam for anyone ...and you hope that CCP clean this "building player market forum feature ... ?"
Do not they have other thing of better to do that to take care of it? |
RAW23
447
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Posted - 2013.11.05 10:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jdestars wrote:Nanatoa wrote:It I propose that from now on any frivolous loan request will be reported either for begging - which is what requesting a loan without being subjected to proper analysis is ..! Loan are not a implanted feature of Eve so its the opend door to scam for anyone ...and you hope that CCP clean this "building player market forum feature ... ?" Do not they have other thing of better to do that to take care of it?
Actually, the hope is that CCP will more or less leave it alone. This thread was a semi-ironic response to the question of what to do now that CCP's mods had got involved in stuff they didn't understand and were breaking mechanisms that had emerged naturally over years. Fortunately, the mods dialed back their involvement and stopped undercutting the mechanisms that are already in use. |
Manu Militari
Tactical Black
25
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Posted - 2013.11.06 09:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
flakeys wrote:CCP Eterne wrote:It is not illegal to mention known alts of players when discussing loan requests or any other business ventures they are proposing. As long as you are not revealing any real life information or information on their account, it is acceptable. Allthough a dev mentioned the opposite in ''the impersonation threadnaught'' i'll take this quote for what it is and bookmark it for ''emergency use''
The threadnaught was about using alts, whether real or not, to scam. If you cite a known alt of yours in a legitimate business deal there is nothing wrong, if I understand correct? As long as scamming is not involved.
So in essence, you could basically vet loan proposals by requesting the requester to involve an alt in the process - if he ends up scamming you can therefore report him for violating the EULA/TOS by using impersonation to scam. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1530
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Posted - 2013.11.06 09:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Manu Militari wrote:flakeys wrote:CCP Eterne wrote:It is not illegal to mention known alts of players when discussing loan requests or any other business ventures they are proposing. As long as you are not revealing any real life information or information on their account, it is acceptable. Allthough a dev mentioned the opposite in ''the impersonation threadnaught'' i'll take this quote for what it is and bookmark it for ''emergency use'' The threadnaught was about using alts, whether real or not, to scam. If you cite a known alt of yours in a legitimate business deal there is nothing wrong, if I understand correct? please provide a clear distinction between a 'legitimate' deal and a scam. the only objective distinction i can see is one party using the word scam to describe a deal that went not in their favor. |
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Rhivre
TarNec Invisible Exchequer
524
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Posted - 2013.11.06 09:56:00 -
[21] - Quote
A legitimate deal has both sides upholding their part of the contract, where goods offered are as expected, and monies offered are of the agreed amount.
"I agree to trade you an [insert item here] for X amount of ISK"
A scam is where either the item offered is not as promised, or the amount of isk is not what was agreed upon |
Manu Militari
Tactical Black
25
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Posted - 2013.11.06 10:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote: please provide a clear distinction between a 'legitimate' deal and a scam. the only objective distinction i can see is one party using the word scam to describe a deal that went not in their favor.
A deal between two parties where the agreed upon exchange is not fulfilled by one of the parties invovled.
So, in essence, requesting a loan and defaulting on it would be a scam. Therefore, by involving a real alt of the requestor in the loan request process you can essentially make the loan default a violation of the TOS because the use of said alt in a scam violates the impersonation clause.
GM Karidor wrote:Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
So, if Olli's alt were named Humbaby, and he claimed to be Olli's alt to faciliate a scam, and actually was Olli's alt on the same account, you're saying that would be allowed? Because before we all thought that was fine, but your last post made that sound like it would be bannable, and now you've muddied the waters and I don't know anymore.
The example I gave is clear enough to cover that, the short answer is "No, not allowed". If you were under the impression that this was permitted, you were going off on incorrect assumptions. |
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