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Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
47
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Posted - 2013.10.26 18:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok so I trying to do more industry at present and I'm looking at improving my blueprints so I'm looking at doing some research (probably ME) however from what I can see its not worth it.
I brought a certain cheap BPC with 100 or so on both ME and PE and yet the required resources and time are barely improved. So am I missing something or are ME and PE only really worth it on highly intensive blueprints? |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
670
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Posted - 2013.10.26 18:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
ME and PE are near-essential on most blueprints, but they both have diminishing returns. ME 100 isn't much better than ME 30 for most. ME 0 - 30 is a large improvement. |
Huttan Funaila
Terminal Radioactivity Spaceship Samurai
219
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Posted - 2013.10.26 19:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Blueprints start out with 10% waste. For cheap things, that 10% isn't much. For expensive things like ships, that 10% is larger than the profit margin of making the ship.
Time productivity level is a different matter. If you are only going to make a few, then any PL research is a waste. If you make zillions of them, like ammo or fuel blocks, then every bit of PL research is a good deal.
Your personal Production Efficiency skill also makes a huge difference, so if you make things, you really want to get that skill to 5 sooner than later.
One blueprint calculator is: http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpo |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
48
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Posted - 2013.10.26 20:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
So no building battleships then? |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
2187
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Posted - 2013.10.26 21:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
10% waste / (ME 20 + 1) < 0.5% waste.
There really isn't a good financial argument to research much beyond ME 20. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
670
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Posted - 2013.10.26 21:45:00 -
[6] - Quote
Paul Otichoda wrote:So no building battleships then?
Why not? Not all are profitable, but that goes for most things. |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
48
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Posted - 2013.10.26 21:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Paul Otichoda wrote:So no building battleships then? Why not? Not all are profitable, but that goes for most things.
well the Battleship BPO cost about a billion each (about the same a carrier BPO for the same reason). I'm not ready for that |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
670
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Posted - 2013.10.26 22:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ships are a bad place to start in general. High cost, low margins, low demand. Everyone and their grandmother thinks ship building is cool and so does it.
If you insist on building ships, most battleships have BPCs going for around 1 mil per run. Plus saves you the months of research required. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
1966
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Posted - 2013.10.26 22:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/blueprints/
See the effects of ME/PE research. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9!-á I'm starting early :) Handy tools and an SDE conversion Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
IDunLikeBlastas
Italians do it better
1
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Posted - 2013.10.27 18:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Download "Eve Isk per hour", go trough the basic configuration and feed it an api key to download your charachter skills
Hint: as you starts out you don't want to work with BPOs straight away, they are somewhat a capital sink
Use Eve isk per hour "update prices" Tab, select your trade HUB and the pricing method to buy/sell the stuff you make, let him update the prices
Go to "Manufacturing" Tab and, for the purpose of answering your question, make 3 different runs (we will only modify the "unowned BP" option):
-ME:0 PE:0
-ME30 PE:0
-ME30 PE:30
See result for yourself ^^, oh and btw dont get so hasty on buying BPOs even the cheap ones, use researched BPC at first (hint: as long as you dont go for overpriced/overresearched one they are almost always worth it, Isk per Hour can tell you that too), get a feeling for that item and only after that decide to go for the BPO or not.
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Locked'n Loaded
Logi and Anal R Us
1
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Posted - 2013.10.27 19:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
Almost all battleships in Jita are being sold at or below mineral cost. Unless you have spent 2+ years researching a BS BPO, don't bother building them. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
2189
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Posted - 2013.10.27 21:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Locked'n Loaded wrote:Almost all battleships in Jita are being sold at or below mineral cost. Unless you have spent 2+ years researching a BS BPO, don't bother building them. More accurately: "at or below current mineral cost."
The formerly tier 1 and tier 2 battleships were brought up to the costs of the tier 3 battleships when tiers were removed. Many industrialists built thousands of ships beforehand, and are currently selling them at a profit.
Similarly for all other ships as the've undergone recent rebalancing. |
Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Northern Associates.
131
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Posted - 2013.10.28 02:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
IDunLikeBlastas wrote:Doh and btw dont get so hasty on buying BPOs even the cheap ones, use researched BPC at first (hint: as long as you dont go for overpriced/overresearched one they are almost always worth it, Isk per Hour can tell you that too), get a feeling for that item and only after that decide to go for the BPO or not. This is kinda a double edged sword, obtaining BPOs and researching them yourself, building up a Library of Researched BPOs can be rewarding in itself.
I used to run missions and buy BPOs of whatever Modules I was fitting to my ships, repro the loot(that was selling for less than the mineral costs) and manufacture the Modules/Ammo/Drones that I needed to run missions, eventually you find you have a library of BPOs that when you start taking manufacturing seriously, and you don't have to buy other peoples BPCs, hint you can make BPCs to sell too once you get them to a reasonable level of ME/PE.
hint reasonable level of ME/PE for items vary, most modules start at about ME 50 PE 25, this is normally below their Perfect level, however this is where many find the trade off between research time and cost saving to be. |
Dasola
Rookie Empire Citizens Rookie Empire
210
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Posted - 2013.10.28 08:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Problem with ship manufacturing is that CCP recently changed mineral requirements by adding extra materials to most ships. When this was made public, people with big isk went to manufacturing frenzy on big ticket ships, expecting eventually price level rise because increased mineral requirements to build. I'm pretty sure big ships still have tons of stock left from cheaper era...
My basic advice is this, in most cases ME research is worth it, at least to some level. In most cases PE research is worth it if you planning on producing more then few of said item.
How ever, if your serious about research you need a POS, just make calculation before and make sure POS does pay for it self on what it provides to you. How you value the benefit of your own research labs, well thats up to you. For me they were golden at time...
We are Minmatar, Our ship are made of scraps, but look what our scraps can do... |
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