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Hesod Adee
Turalyon Plus Turalyon Alliance
102
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Posted - 2013.10.26 21:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
And what percentage comes from elsewhere ? |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
64081
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Posted - 2013.10.27 01:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Never heard a statistic.
If you can state some reason why this is deathly important to know, it would help.
I for one ain't going on a Wild Google Chase.....especially for someone else. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
My Little Pyongyang
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.10.27 02:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
With the removal of drone poo, probably most of it?
Though I assume there are still large stockpiles of drone poo keeping the prices down, the russians (and others) botted the **** out of it. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
64082
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Posted - 2013.10.27 02:16:00 -
[4] - Quote
My Little Pyongyang wrote:With the removal of drone poo, probably most of it?
Though I assume there are still large stockpiles of drone poo keeping the prices down, the russians (and others) botted the **** out of it.
That was now well over 2 years ago. So......no.
And the mineral prices are down right now because of the Null Sec mineral content changes with Odyssey.
CCP most likely doesn't even have finalized statistics for it all yet, or anything meaningful.
ed: And God only knows I recycle a lot of Mission Loot. Anything worth under 100,000 ISK gets the axe. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Alberik
Eusebius Corporation
26
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Posted - 2013.10.27 09:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:[ ed: And God only knows I recycle a lot of Mission Loot. Anything worth under 100,000 ISK gets the axe.
make it 200k. but even then it is less than 10m a week for me. doesnt even pay for the ammo |
Felicity Love
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
928
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Posted - 2013.10.27 10:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
My Little Pyongyang wrote:With the removal of drone poo, probably most of it?
Though I assume there are still large stockpiles of drone poo keeping the prices down, the russians (and others) botted the **** out of it.
Don't forget we've had several massive and speculative build-ups for the various ship rebalancings. BS's, particularly.
As for the percentage now --- I'm pretty certain this is why CCP has an economist, not that we've heard alot from him lately. Hopefully someone will rap on his door.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
64325
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Posted - 2013.10.27 11:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:My Little Pyongyang wrote:With the removal of drone poo, probably most of it?
Though I assume there are still large stockpiles of drone poo keeping the prices down, the russians (and others) botted the **** out of it. Don't forget we've had several massive and speculative build-ups for the various ship rebalancings. BS's, particularly. As for the percentage now --- I'm pretty certain this is why CCP has an economist, not that we've heard alot from him lately. Hopefully someone will rap on his door.
They made Dr. Eggnog stop publishing those quarterly reports due to exploitation by "certain entities". CCP Diagoras was allowed to post some historical statistics (The Damsel is rescued about 14,000 times a day) and all that but nothing substantial.
CCP has taken the stance on this and other issues of " What is not known, cannot be exploited". "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1514
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Posted - 2013.10.27 12:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:CCP has taken the stance on this and other issues of " What is not known, cannot be exploited". "What is not known, can only be exploited by those smart enough to find out for themselves." |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
64548
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Posted - 2013.10.27 14:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Abdiel Kavash wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:CCP has taken the stance on this and other issues of " What is not known, cannot be exploited". "What is not known, can only be exploited by those smart enough to find out for themselves."
Good luck discovering from Market API pulls, that are allowed, the percentage of minerals on the market that are from ore, and those that come from recycling.
You cannot.
Ever.
Shiptoasting in S & I is kinda desperate tbh. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Felicity Love
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
933
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Posted - 2013.10.27 15:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: They made Dr. Eggnog stop publishing those quarterly reports due to exploitation by "certain entities". CCP Diagoras was allowed to post some historical statistics (The Damsel is rescued about 14,000 times a day) and all that but nothing substantial.
CCP has taken the stance on this and other issues of " What is not known, cannot be exploited".
While I can see and appreciate the rationale, I guess that explains his lower visibility of late.
Too bad, too. I loved those QENs.
Proud Beta Tester for "Bumping Uglies for Dummies" |
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
64799
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Posted - 2013.10.27 20:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote: They made Dr. Eggnog stop publishing those quarterly reports due to exploitation by "certain entities". CCP Diagoras was allowed to post some historical statistics (The Damsel is rescued about 14,000 times a day) and all that but nothing substantial.
CCP has taken the stance on this and other issues of " What is not known, cannot be exploited".
While I can see and appreciate the rationale, I guess that explains his lower visibility of late. Too bad, too. I loved those QENs.
Yeah. My 80 yo dad at the time never really grasped the scale of EVE as described over the phone, till I forwarded him one of those. He was quite amazed. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1099
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Posted - 2013.10.27 20:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:And what percentage comes from elsewhere ? The vast majority. AFAIK The only other supply is mission loot. I guess hauler spawns too but again, mining is key. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
65180
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Posted - 2013.10.28 13:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:Hesod Adee wrote:And what percentage comes from elsewhere ? The vast majority. AFAIK The only other supply is mission loot. I guess hauler spawns too but again, mining is key.
The OP dude is wanting exact numbers apparently.
But then he has not posted in over 48 hours so this is more than likely a Fail-Troll to start 'vicious arguments'. Some folks just have nothing better to do. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
828
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Posted - 2013.10.28 16:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
Back in the days of gun mining, before the drone poo and meta 0 drops were removed, mining only provided about 40% of the total minerals consumed, and much of that was mined by bots. Now I would say it is closer to 80-90%, and bots are less of an issue as CCP has gotten a little better and more aggressive at finding them. This is based on my own memory and what I have read over the years, rather than cold facts, but this has been discussed many times, and I do recall some stats mentioned back around the time of the drone poo nerf, but I do not recall exactly where I read it.
So why are mineral prices still down? After all the changes we have seen to make mining better, it is still the worst isk/hr activity in game. Well mining is a low risk activity that can easily be done semi afk, without the use of bot programs. Not all miners are bots, although some lazy players often act like bots. There have always been players willing to mine for as little as 10m isk/hr, now those players are still getting 15M isk/hr. But that difference could be chalked up to inflation. No matter what changes CCP makes, the prices will always settle out at a point that is directly related to how cheap the miners are willing to work for. Every society has people willing to work for what ever the minimum wage for that area is. In New Eden a few years ago it seems minimum wage was 10M/hr now it is up to 15M/hr, and those minimum wage workers are miners, why would you make a higher wage mining, if someone else is willing to do the same work for less?
On top of that there have been a few changes that have made mining easier. We now have more robust ships, ships that can hold far more ore per load than before, and now with Odyssey null sec ores with high amounts of low end minerals. All of these changes have been great improvements to the game. But nothing CCP can ever do will change the fact that the easiest career in the game will always be the lowest paid. Why? One simple fact, there is always someone willing to work less hard for less isk/hr.
Back in 2009 when I started playing EVE, trit was a little over 3 isk/unit, pyrite was about 5 isk/unit. Procurers were never used, as the mining cruisers could get more yield, and retrievers were nothing more than a stepping stone to HULK's. Although ganking in general was less popular back then, miner ganking was rampant, as the ships were far easier to gank than they are now. As miners we certainly have come along way. The game has gotten much better, not that it was not a great game to begin with, but most of the changes in EVE I have seen have been for the better.
So it really does not matter how much of the minerals consumed come from mining, if that ratio was changed, the price of minerals would just settle at a new place leaving miners with about the same minimum wage income. If you want to make more isk then you have to put in more effort than afk mining in a tanked retriever.
Even within the high sec miners circle it is possible to make 25-30M isk/hr, with a max yield HULK and maxed Orca boost. However the players that do so are not solo AFK miners. they are fleet or mutibox miners, who are actually atk and playing the game. In a tanked out retriever, without ORCA boosts you will be lucky to make even 15M isk/h. Higher mineral prices, or even higher yield, will not give you higher income, at least not long term. The only way to make more isk/hr is to work harder and/or smarter. The players who make several billion isk a month, do not do it sitting in an afk mining ship. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
65585
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 21:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Maybe CCP should start making all players contribute to a sort of Miner Assistance Program to help them with that low income. I mean, McDonald's just opened an employee hotline to assist their employees in obtaining government Food Stamps because of their horrifically low wages that they know are criminally low.
More and more businesses are doing this....paying a low wage knowing the government will step up and assist with the rest of it so they can actually feed themselves.
ed: I kid, of course (the part about CCP doing this). "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Hesod Adee
Turalyon Plus Turalyon Alliance
110
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Posted - 2013.10.29 03:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Zifrian wrote:Hesod Adee wrote:And what percentage comes from elsewhere ? The vast majority. AFAIK The only other supply is mission loot. I guess hauler spawns too but again, mining is key. The OP dude is wanting exact numbers apparently. But then he has not posted in over 48 hours so this is more than likely a Fail-Troll to start 'vicious arguments'. Some folks just have nothing better to do. I didn't say anything because I had nothing to say. This thread has been informative in telling me why even approximate numbers aren't going to be possible.
As for why I was asking, I had a change to risk/reward ratio of low sec mining that I was planning to post in F&I. An idea that will not work if minerals that come from non-mining activities make up too much of the total amount of minerals created. I thought it best to find out if that would be a problem before posting the suggestion.
I doubt I'll have anything more to say in this thread. |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
65974
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 11:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hesod Adee wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Zifrian wrote:Hesod Adee wrote:And what percentage comes from elsewhere ? The vast majority. AFAIK The only other supply is mission loot. I guess hauler spawns too but again, mining is key. The OP dude is wanting exact numbers apparently. But then he has not posted in over 48 hours so this is more than likely a Fail-Troll to start 'vicious arguments'. Some folks just have nothing better to do. I didn't say anything because I had nothing to say. This thread has been informative in telling me why even approximate numbers aren't going to be possible. As for why I was asking, I had a change to risk/reward ratio of low sec mining that I was planning to post in F&I. An idea that will not work if minerals that come from non-mining activities make up too much of the total amount of minerals created. I thought it best to find out if that would be a problem before posting the suggestion. I doubt I'll have anything more to say in this thread.
Acknowledged. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
829
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Posted - 2013.11.01 13:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Maybe CCP should start making all players contribute to a sort of Miner Assistance Program to help them with that low income. I mean, McDonald's just opened an employee hotline to assist their employees in obtaining government Food Stamps because of their horrifically low wages that they know are criminally low.
More and more businesses are doing this....paying a low wage knowing the government will step up and assist with the rest of it so they can actually feed themselves.
ed: I kid, of course (the part about CCP doing this). LOL, first troll I've read of yours. Obvious even without that last line.
Mining is the lowest income in game because it is the easiest and lowest risk activity, higher risk in Low/Null, but still a very low effort for most. There is a reason why so very few mine in low and NPC null. The risks are to high for the minimum wage rewards. However the null bears hiding deep inside Sov space surrounded by blues are just as safe as those mining in high sec.
To the miners that complain about the low income of there chosen profession, I say, if you want to make more isk/hr, put the effort into higher risk activities that pay a higher isk/hr. It really is that simple. The wages of miners are pretty much where they should be.
Mining income is not in near as bad of shape as it was a year or so ago. The income gap between high sec miners and high sec mission runners is much smaller than it used to be. With all the changes mining has seen, income has come up a bit, although curbed by inflation, but it as leveled out at a point where the wages are high enough to attract enough miners to meet demand. The income is where it should be.
I am not saying mining does not still need some attention. I have my own complaints about mining, but the isk/hr is not one of them. You want isk, work for it. Mining is easy, so the income is low. My only real complaint right now is the removal of gravametric sites, or ORE signatures as they would have been rebranded by Odyssey. All gravametric sites were converted to ORE anomalies, which you do not need skills or probes to find. But neither do those hunting you. This change has made mining in low and NPC null suicide.
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