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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5021
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 20:30:00 -
[121] - Quote
Kyle Sev wrote:Krimishkev wrote:This thread is ****, unsubscribed.
Grinding meaningless structures is the bane of EVE PVP, and people want to add more of them. You're idiots. ....... Not sure if troll. Or dident read the thread. Just like ganking is not pvp There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
187
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Posted - 2013.10.30 09:53:00 -
[122] - Quote
In my opinion the focus should move from controlling regions to constellations and the distance to be traversed (with a capital) through one region should increase from 1 cyno to about 6 or 7 or even more. At the same time there should be mechanics that encourage corporations instead of alliances to control sov. For instance I could imagine a mechanic where an alliance gets a bonus to jump bridge range but a corpororation a reduced sov cost. To make things more dynamic the amount of timers should be reduced to 1 per I-hub and 2 per station. This would make owning a capital at a given location much more meaningful and people would think twice if they really need to control 6 or 7 regions without actually using them completely, just for the sake of a few systems. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
644
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 02:16:00 -
[123] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:In my opinion the focus should move from controlling regions to constellations and the distance to be traversed (with a capital) through one region should increase from 1 cyno to about 6 or 7 or even more. At the same time there should be mechanics that encourage corporations instead of alliances to control sov. For instance I could imagine a mechanic where an alliance gets a bonus to jump bridge range but a corpororation a reduced sov cost. To make things more dynamic the amount of timers should be reduced to 1 per I-hub and 2 per station. This would make owning a capital at a given location much more meaningful and people would think twice if they really need to control 6 or 7 regions without actually using them completely, just for the sake of a few systems. I concur, great ideas. |
Baaldor
In Igne Morim Easily Excited
156
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Posted - 2013.10.31 02:26:00 -
[124] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:In my opinion the focus should move from controlling regions to constellations and the distance to be traversed (with a capital) through one region should increase from 1 cyno to about 6 or 7 or even more.
Oh **** that.
That is just terrible.
and you should feel bad. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1566
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 02:41:00 -
[125] - Quote
Yeah, you can always identify a bad "fix" suggestion if it basically boils down to "more tedium and less incentive to even bother doing anything in nullsec". That said, a nerf to combat power projection, not logistic, would be fine after a profound mechanics change aimed at more regional and regular organic conflict and general nullsec gameplay (indy etc).
Nullsec fixes should make it more fun and compelling, not less than it already is. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1339
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 02:57:00 -
[126] - Quote
Baaldor wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:In my opinion the focus should move from controlling regions to constellations and the distance to be traversed (with a capital) through one region should increase from 1 cyno to about 6 or 7 or even more. Oh **** that. That is just terrible. and you should feel bad.
Yep. No one who has ever lived in nullsec for a decent period of time would say that. I haven't lived in null since the Great War, and the very thought of that "suggestion" still makes me shudder. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5036
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 03:25:00 -
[127] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Baaldor wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:In my opinion the focus should move from controlling regions to constellations and the distance to be traversed (with a capital) through one region should increase from 1 cyno to about 6 or 7 or even more. Oh **** that. That is just terrible. and you should feel bad. Yep. No one who has ever lived in nullsec for a decent period of time would say that. I haven't lived in null since the Great War, and the very thought of that "suggestion" still makes me shudder. Even more cyno alts for harry forever to shoot There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
645
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 04:46:00 -
[128] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Baaldor wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:In my opinion the focus should move from controlling regions to constellations and the distance to be traversed (with a capital) through one region should increase from 1 cyno to about 6 or 7 or even more. Oh **** that. That is just terrible. and you should feel bad. Yep. No one who has ever lived in nullsec for a decent period of time would say that. I haven't lived in null since the Great War, and the very thought of that "suggestion" still makes me shudder. Even more cyno alts for harry forever to shoot Its not terrible, please explain why your cap leaving venal going to period basis should beat an interceptor going by gates by an hour or so. Its stupid. Capitals are OP without being able to jump around like the galaxy is a few jumps across.
Capitals should be regional defense and offense meaning it should be possible to deploy them in a region so they can defend or attack locally. Its how capital ships are used on Earth. They are deployed to the Indian ocean or the Middle East. They don't sit in Hawaii until something happens and magically teleport to a location.
I think the whole of non-mega alliance EvE would agree the way they jump around is stupid.
Caps should be unable to use jump bridges, caps should require a spool down time before jumping again, the longer the jump the longer the spool down. That'd stop all the multiple cyno alt issues wouldn't it since you could move you cyno alt while the jump drive is waiting to rejump.
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Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
192
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Posted - 2013.10.31 06:03:00 -
[129] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote:Yeah, you can always identify a bad "fix" suggestion if it basically boils down to "more tedium and less incentive to even bother doing anything in nullsec". That said, a nerf to combat power projection, not logistic, would be fine after a profound mechanics change aimed at more regional and regular organic conflict and general nullsec gameplay (indy etc).
Nullsec fixes should make it more fun and compelling, not less than it already is.
It would make actually planning ahead much more rewarding and create new tactical possibilities at the same rate it closes others. Today you can move from the south (Omist) to the North (Branch) in a Jump drive calib V Carrier in 8 jumps, that's absolutely stupid. It would also encourage people to produce their stuff locally rather than import it from HS. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
573
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 06:07:00 -
[130] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:Varius Xeral wrote:Yeah, you can always identify a bad "fix" suggestion if it basically boils down to "more tedium and less incentive to even bother doing anything in nullsec". That said, a nerf to combat power projection, not logistic, would be fine after a profound mechanics change aimed at more regional and regular organic conflict and general nullsec gameplay (indy etc).
Nullsec fixes should make it more fun and compelling, not less than it already is. It would make actually planning ahead much more rewarding and create new tactical possibilities at the same rate it closes others. Today you can move from the south (Omist) to the North (Branch) in a Jump drive calib V Carrier in 8 jumps, that's absolutely stupid. It would also encourage people to produce their stuff locally rather than import it from HS.
8 jumps........And five stops for fuel.
Having moved south to north before I spent three hours collecting fuel for 18 carriers. Not to mention you can't carry anything but ships the entire cargo had to be fuel.
.....And forget dreads or supers |
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Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1568
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Posted - 2013.10.31 06:08:00 -
[131] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:It would make actually planning ahead much more rewarding and create new tactical possibilities at the same rate it closes others. Today you can move from the south (Omist) to the North (Branch) in a Jump drive calib V Carrier in 8 jumps, that's absolutely stupid. It would also encourage people to produce their stuff locally rather than import it from HS.
Yeah, the galaxy is definitely "too small" right now. But just fractioning jump distance and walking away is a terrible idea.
Again, a general nerf to power projection should go hand in hand with a comprehensive reworking of nullsec gameplay. Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
465
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 06:39:00 -
[132] - Quote
Nerfing jump ranges only hurts the smaller entities. Think about it, is it easier for 10 guys to setup and maintain a cyno chain or a 1000 guys to setup and maintain the same cyno chain?
The only real way to make smaller entities competitive with larger entities in direct sov warfare would be to limit the total amount of force committed by both sides. Think wormholes, where the total mass of ships you can bring to bear to a given system in a few hours is essentially finite. However, that would kinda defeat the whole point of sov really.
A better way, which CCP seems to be pursuing atm, is to give smaller entities the ability to actually hurt larger entities. It's not practical, from a mechanics point of view, for an alliance of 1,000 dudes to beat an alliance of 35,000 dudes. Far better to give the 1,000 guys a means to hurt the larger alliance while avoiding a direct slugfest. That way, if the 1000 dudes hold a bit of space, it might not be "worth it" for the larger entities to attack their space directly. |
Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
192
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Posted - 2013.10.31 06:46:00 -
[133] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Nerfing jump ranges only hurts the smaller entities. Think about it, is it easier for 10 guys to setup and maintain a cyno chain or a 1000 guys to setup and maintain the same cyno chain?
No, but once they do move their caps to the deployment area they have a decent advantage. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
465
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 06:48:00 -
[134] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Nerfing jump ranges only hurts the smaller entities. Think about it, is it easier for 10 guys to setup and maintain a cyno chain or a 1000 guys to setup and maintain the same cyno chain?
No, but once they do move their caps to the deployment area they have a decent advantage. So, 10 guys move their caps to the deployment area using am 8 jump cyno chain. 1000 guys move their caps to a deployment area using an 8 jump cyno chain.
How exactly does the 10 man gang have an advantage over the 1000 man gang? |
Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 06:58:00 -
[135] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Nerfing jump ranges only hurts the smaller entities. Think about it, is it easier for 10 guys to setup and maintain a cyno chain or a 1000 guys to setup and maintain the same cyno chain?
No, but once they do move their caps to the deployment area they have a decent advantage. So, 10 guys move their caps to the deployment area using am 8 jump cyno chain. 1000 guys move their caps to a deployment area using an 8 jump cyno chain. How exactly does the 10 man gang have an advantage over the 1000 man gang?
If the 1000 man alliance is being attacked 25 cynojumps away at the same time they need to reconsider if they really need that space and want to jump ludicrous distances again and again and again. Of course you cant expect that isboxing guy with his 10 alts to take sov from goonswarm, but corps/ alliances who can field a mix between caps and subcaps and are able to actually take advantage of it should be able to do so. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
573
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 07:02:00 -
[136] - Quote
That looks vaguely like English, but it made no sense. |
Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 07:04:00 -
[137] - Quote
Onictus wrote:That looks vaguely like English, but it made no sense. Please tell me which part you didn't understand and I might tell you what it meant.- |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
465
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 07:13:00 -
[138] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
If the 1000 man alliance is being attacked 25 cynojumps away at the same time they need to reconsider if they really need that space and want to jump ludicrous distances again and again and again. Of course you cant expect that isboxing guy with his 10 alts to take sov from goonswarm, but corps/ alliances who can field a mix between caps and subcaps and are able to actually take advantage of it should be able to do so.
So the 1000 man gang sends 50 guys to deal with the 10 man gang leaving 950 behind to defend the campfire. Same result. In the old days BoB kicked everyone's teeth in, across multiple regions, just fine without massive cap fleets.
What you're not getting, is that being able to jump stuff around easily is a massive boon to smaller entities living in null. Big entities can get along just fine without it because they always have, and they always will. We know what an eve without jumpdrives looks like. Jumpdrives aren't the problem. |
Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
192
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Posted - 2013.10.31 07:25:00 -
[139] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:
If the 1000 man alliance is being attacked 25 cynojumps away at the same time they need to reconsider if they really need that space and want to jump ludicrous distances again and again and again. Of course you cant expect that isboxing guy with his 10 alts to take sov from goonswarm, but corps/ alliances who can field a mix between caps and subcaps and are able to actually take advantage of it should be able to do so.
So the 1000 man gang sends 50 guys to deal with the 10 man gang leaving 950 behind to defend the campfire.
As I said Im not expecting that 10 man alt corp to do that, but alliances/corps to the tune of 100ish should be able to. Also: lol that 1000 man gang wont just send 50 guys, because KILLMAILZ
Quote:What you're not getting, is that being able to jump stuff around easily is a massive boon to smaller entities living in null. Big entities can get along just fine without it because they always have, and they always will. [b]We know what an eve without jumpdrives looks like. Jumpdrives aren't the problem.
Its an advantage if you want to do logistics as a small entity for sure, but not if you actually want to field caps in combat. Im not talking about removing jump drives, Im talking about nerfing them (a lot). |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
465
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 07:32:00 -
[140] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:As I said Im not expecting that 10 man alt corp to do that, but alliances/corps to the tune of 100ish should be able to. Also: lol that 1000 man gang wont just send 50 guys, because KILLMAILZ.
Just like the CFC didn't send Razor up north to fight BL/401k in the last war while the bulk of the CFC went south. Granted, Razor failed miserably in their task but ...it's Razor, what can you expect?
Baali Tekitsu wrote: Its an advantage if you want to do logistics as a small entity for sure, but not if you actually want to field caps in combat. Im not talking about removing jump drives, Im talking about nerfing them (a lot).
Living in null as a small independent entity is ALL about logistics. If you cant get your people the right ships, replace their losses, sell their loot, your people die, they don't undock, and your alliance collapses. Toss off your renter shackles and join a self sufficient outfit, you might actually learn a thing or two. |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5040
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Posted - 2013.10.31 07:34:00 -
[141] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:
If the 1000 man alliance is being attacked 25 cynojumps away at the same time they need to reconsider if they really need that space and want to jump ludicrous distances again and again and again. Of course you cant expect that isboxing guy with his 10 alts to take sov from goonswarm, but corps/ alliances who can field a mix between caps and subcaps and are able to actually take advantage of it should be able to do so.
So the 1000 man gang sends 50 guys to deal with the 10 man gang leaving 950 behind to defend the campfire. Same result. In the old days BoB kicked everyone's teeth in, across multiple regions, just fine without massive cap fleets. What you're not getting is that being able to jump stuff around easily is a massive boon to smaller entities living in null. Big entities can get along just fine without it because they always have, and they always will. We know what an eve without jumpdrives looks like. Jumpdrives aren't the problem. grrr blobbers There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Fatal Ascension
573
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 07:41:00 -
[142] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:
If the 1000 man alliance is being attacked 25 cynojumps away at the same time they need to reconsider if they really need that space and want to jump ludicrous distances again and again and again. Of course you cant expect that isboxing guy with his 10 alts to take sov from goonswarm, but corps/ alliances who can field a mix between caps and subcaps and are able to actually take advantage of it should be able to do so.
So the 1000 man gang sends 50 guys to deal with the 10 man gang leaving 950 behind to defend the campfire. As I said Im not expecting that 10 man alt corp to do that, but alliances/corps to the tune of 100ish should be able to. Also: lol that 1000 man gang wont just send 50 guys, because KILLMAILZ Quote:What you're not getting, is that being able to jump stuff around easily is a massive boon to smaller entities living in null. Big entities can get along just fine without it because they always have, and they always will. [b]We know what an eve without jumpdrives looks like. Jumpdrives aren't the problem. Its an advantage if you want to do logistics as a small entity for sure, but not if you actually want to field caps in combat. Im not talking about removing jump drives, Im talking about nerfing them (a lot).
Yeah so then after the 1000 man gang goes 40 jumps on foot what stops them from just steamrolling all of you **** for making them jump that far.
Or just staying, they have the manpower, I've fought wars on opposite sides of the map at once via jump clones and pod express. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5040
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Posted - 2013.10.31 07:44:00 -
[143] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:
If the 1000 man alliance is being attacked 25 cynojumps away at the same time they need to reconsider if they really need that space and want to jump ludicrous distances again and again and again. Of course you cant expect that isboxing guy with his 10 alts to take sov from goonswarm, but corps/ alliances who can field a mix between caps and subcaps and are able to actually take advantage of it should be able to do so.
So the 1000 man gang sends 50 guys to deal with the 10 man gang leaving 950 behind to defend the campfire. As I said Im not expecting that 10 man alt corp to do that, but alliances/corps to the tune of 100ish should be able to. Also: lol that 1000 man gang wont just send 50 guys, because KILLMAILZ Quote:What you're not getting, is that being able to jump stuff around easily is a massive boon to smaller entities living in null. Big entities can get along just fine without it because they always have, and they always will. [b]We know what an eve without jumpdrives looks like. Jumpdrives aren't the problem. Its an advantage if you want to do logistics as a small entity for sure, but not if you actually want to field caps in combat. Im not talking about removing jump drives, Im talking about nerfing them (a lot). Yeah so then after the 1000 man gang goes 40 jumps on foot what stops them from just steamrolling all of you **** for making them jump that far. Or just staying, they have the manpower, I've fought wars on opposite sides of the map at once via jump clones and pod express. Docking in an NPC station
There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 07:46:00 -
[144] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:
If the 1000 man alliance is being attacked 25 cynojumps away at the same time they need to reconsider if they really need that space and want to jump ludicrous distances again and again and again. Of course you cant expect that isboxing guy with his 10 alts to take sov from goonswarm, but corps/ alliances who can field a mix between caps and subcaps and are able to actually take advantage of it should be able to do so.
So the 1000 man gang sends 50 guys to deal with the 10 man gang leaving 950 behind to defend the campfire. As I said Im not expecting that 10 man alt corp to do that, but alliances/corps to the tune of 100ish should be able to. Also: lol that 1000 man gang wont just send 50 guys, because KILLMAILZ Quote:What you're not getting, is that being able to jump stuff around easily is a massive boon to smaller entities living in null. Big entities can get along just fine without it because they always have, and they always will. [b]We know what an eve without jumpdrives looks like. Jumpdrives aren't the problem. Its an advantage if you want to do logistics as a small entity for sure, but not if you actually want to field caps in combat. Im not talking about removing jump drives, Im talking about nerfing them (a lot). Yeah so then after the 1000 man gang goes 40 jumps on foot what stops them from just steamrolling all of you **** for making them jump that far. Or just staying, they have the manpower, I've fought wars on opposite sides of the map at once via jump clones and pod express.
Well if there is an entity that can motivate 1000 people to constantly jump clone and jump 40 jumps in their BS fleet then they will have an advantage for sure, but I don't know such entity yet. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5040
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 07:47:00 -
[145] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:Well if there is an entity that can motivate 1000 people to constantly jump clone and jump 40 jumps in their BS fleet then they will have an advantage for sure, but I don't know such entity yet. Well, when you put it that way bark bark There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
301
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 07:51:00 -
[146] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Nerfing jump ranges only hurts the smaller entities. Think about it, is it easier for 10 guys to setup and maintain a cyno chain or a 1000 guys to setup and maintain the same cyno chain?
No, but once they do move their caps to the deployment area they have a decent advantage.
eh ?
1000 accounts have 1000 cyno alts, and no matter who is logged on, there will be 8 available characters in the right locations for the chain, and there will be enough people logged on to have an entirely different escape chain, and another chain all the way back to the other side of their territory, and there will be more people that can afford a titan alt, so that the chain can transmit subcaps too.
I don't know why people want to kick their own teeth in trying to make null into W-space when w-space exists.
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Marexlovox
The Scope Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.10.31 07:55:00 -
[147] - Quote
People wanted to see null sec expanded, well I can say this there is a lot of low sec system that are not even used, why not revamp those systems into some null systems, shorten high/low instead of expanding the current galaxy we have. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
465
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 07:56:00 -
[148] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:
I don't know why people want to kick their own teeth in trying to make null into W-space when w-space exists.
Wspace doesn't have local, and that makes it a scary, scary place. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
646
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 07:59:00 -
[149] - Quote
Depends on whether you can still move caps in complete safety or whether many more jumps will put you at risk. If you're moving a lot of caps and in doing so you're opening yourself up to being picked off then the risk of moving those caps make its a lot harder vs moving a small number.
Then you have to move them all back again putting yourself in more jeopardy. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
646
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 08:00:00 -
[150] - Quote
Tauranon wrote:Baali Tekitsu wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Nerfing jump ranges only hurts the smaller entities. Think about it, is it easier for 10 guys to setup and maintain a cyno chain or a 1000 guys to setup and maintain the same cyno chain?
No, but once they do move their caps to the deployment area they have a decent advantage. eh ? 1000 accounts have 1000 cyno alts, and no matter who is logged on, there will be 8 available characters in the right locations for the chain, and there will be enough people logged on to have an entirely different escape chain, and another chain all the way back to the other side of their territory, and there will be more people that can afford a titan alt, so that the chain can transmit subcaps too. Which is why there needs to be a cooldown on jump drives. |
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