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Vandemar Chozi
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.10.27 16:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
[qq] I mean, the game's been out for what, a decade now? I would expect better explanations for so many things.
Trying to scan down a relic site? Well, if your probe strength isn't high enough, you might not be able to get higher than ~70% even with your probe right on top of the site.
Trying to salvage a wreck? Well, your Salvage equipment says it has a small % chance to succeed. It lies - you have a 0% chance because of some hidden negative bonus on elite wrecks that isn't explained anywhere in the game.
One piece of equipment says -% bonus, and another says +% bonus? lol no, they're really both negative.
It's reasonable to assume that something will be more difficult - even far more difficult. But making something actually impossible without anything in the game explaining that is unnecessarily unintuitive. And really, some consistency with whether or not a bonus is positive or negative seems so basic it's like CCP isn't even trying. [/qq] |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
48
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Posted - 2013.10.27 16:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vandemar Chozi wrote:[qq] I mean, the game's been out for what, a decade now? I would expect better explanations for so many things.
Trying to scan down a relic site? Well, if your probe strength isn't high enough, you might not be able to get higher than ~70% even with your probe right on top of the site.
Trying to salvage a wreck? Well, your Salvage equipment says it has a small % chance to succeed. It lies - you have a 0% chance because of some hidden negative bonus on elite wrecks that isn't explained anywhere in the game.
One piece of equipment says -% bonus, and another says +% bonus? lol no, they're really both negative.
It's reasonable to assume that something will be more difficult - even far more difficult. But making something actually impossible without anything in the game explaining that is unnecessarily unintuitive. And really, some consistency with whether or not a bonus is positive or negative seems so basic it's like CCP isn't even trying. [/qq]
Yes eve is confusing. But its a lot better than 5 years ago I understand when we pretty much had no tutorial. At least now they give you some skill and ships along with the Sisters of Eve epic Arc to start you off.
Probing can be a bit odd and sometime I do think you get bugged sites that you can't get 100% at but general its involves setting the probes in a ball around the dot and reducing the scan range so the strength is higher. Also train up your frigate and scanning skills and they improve the scan.
For salvage I think you're confusing chance to access with difficulty to access. A 10% reduce to difficulty to access means you have a 10% higher change to access the item. And yes elite wrecks are hard to crack. But elite wrecks give higher value wrecks so its worth it.
My general advice is to have the wiki handy and take everything logically. Failing that ask in the help channel. |
Fractal Muse
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
284
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Posted - 2013.10.27 16:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Vandemar Chozi wrote:[qq] I mean, the game's been out for what, a decade now? I would expect better explanations for so many things.
Trying to scan down a relic site? Well, if your probe strength isn't high enough, you might not be able to get higher than ~70% even with your probe right on top of the site.
Trying to salvage a wreck? Well, your Salvage equipment says it has a small % chance to succeed. It lies - you have a 0% chance because of some hidden negative bonus on elite wrecks that isn't explained anywhere in the game.
One piece of equipment says -% bonus, and another says +% bonus? lol no, they're really both negative.
It's reasonable to assume that something will be more difficult - even far more difficult. But making something actually impossible without anything in the game explaining that is unnecessarily unintuitive. And really, some consistency with whether or not a bonus is positive or negative seems so basic it's like CCP isn't even trying. [/qq] I like to say that the UI of EVE Online gets in the way of the incredible game that it is.
The reason for it? It's a throw-back to when the game was made. The original developers appear to have had a thing for spreadsheets and designed most of the UI around the look and feel of it being a spreadsheet. Over the years there has been a concerted effort to remove the spreadsheet element of the UI and replace it with something that is more intuitive.
Unfortunately for us that process is a very long and slow moving process. Every change to the UI to make it 'nicer' and friendlier is met with an awful lot of resistance from entrenched players who got used to how it was and don't want to (understandably so) have to relearn their game.
Basically, the UI was designed by people more interested in functionality and shortcuts than in design and intuitiveness. The folk who worked on EVE Online weren't UI masters. They were coders. Back in the day the height of "brilliance" when it came to compiling and the like was a series of command line toggles (something like: ATTRIB [+ R|-R] [+A|-A] [+ H|-H] [+ S|-S] [d:][path]filename [/S] - if you don't remember DOS or UNIX's love of command line options consider yourself lucky imo).
To display a lot of information it was (and, really, still is) easier and more efficient (especially given the computing resources of a PC back in 2003) to use a series of boxes and display the information in a spreadsheet form. This saved on CPU and made the EVE Client remarkably efficient. Unfortunately it also meant that the UI wound up covering up the game itself. Essentially, we were playing spreadsheets online. The screen became cluttered with boxes with text that would blink, change colour, and have little icons next to it to indicate what was happening.
Interestingly, there used to a radar type UI element in the game but while it was pretty enough people found having information displayed in a text box as more useful. The radar element was replaced by the directional scanner overview. |
Baggo Hammers
186
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Posted - 2013.10.27 17:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sorry to see you go. You are the only one who ever noticed these flaws. If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. |
Maethilar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
10
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Posted - 2013.10.27 17:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Well look at the good side, it was very worse than is today, and now its so better. It will never be perfect but it is in constant development. |
Vandemar Chozi
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.10.27 17:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Baggo Hammers wrote:Sorry to see you go. You are the only one who ever noticed these flaws. Who said I was quitting? Also, the fact that these flaws are well-known really only bolsters my point. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
2188
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 18:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
There is too much in EVE to document well, and that document would be massive tome and boring as heck.
Probably the best attempt to date has been http://www.isktheguide.com/ and it is outdated and incomplete.
Luckily it is an MMO, so you can ask and learn from others. |
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
25
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Posted - 2013.10.28 20:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Seriously... have you heard of google? Youtube. There is sooo much out there to get you properly started.
Unless you wanted WoW in spaceships.
ps posting while intoxicated. Best Idea Ever! |
Paul Otichoda
Electric Sun Associates
48
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 21:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:There is too much in EVE to document well, and that document would be massive tome and boring as heck. Probably the best attempt to date has been http://www.isktheguide.com/ and it is outdated and incomplete. Luckily it is an MMO, so you can ask and learn from others.
it isn't helped by the fact that CCP change everything ever few years as part of rebalancing or overhauls |
Nick Starkey
Exiled Kings SCUM.
2
|
Posted - 2013.10.28 21:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Actually they have a version up to date with Odyssey now for ISK the guide: http://www.isktheguide.com/downloads/ISK_Vol_1_Odyssey_1_0_16.zip
And as for the OP, yes this game is hindered by the overintrusive UI. It's quite hard to play this game unless you have a huge momitor or resolution, or else most important data will cover your screen. CCP said during their latest fanfest that some progress is being done for a new UI "soon". |
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
360
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Posted - 2013.10.29 05:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vandemar Chozi wrote:[qq] I mean, the game's been out for what, a decade now? I would expect better explanations for so many things.
Trying to scan down a relic site? Well, if your probe strength isn't high enough, you might not be able to get higher than ~70% even with your probe right on top of the site.
Trying to salvage a wreck? Well, your Salvage equipment says it has a small % chance to succeed. It lies - you have a 0% chance because of some hidden negative bonus on elite wrecks that isn't explained anywhere in the game.
One piece of equipment says -% bonus, and another says +% bonus? lol no, they're really both negative.
It's reasonable to assume that something will be more difficult - even far more difficult. But making something actually impossible without anything in the game explaining that is unnecessarily unintuitive. And really, some consistency with whether or not a bonus is positive or negative seems so basic it's like CCP isn't even trying. [/qq]
if you aren't higher than a 70% how can you know your probe is on the site?
I think the salvager has an "access difficulty modifier" not exactly percent to succeed. although if you run into it once it is easy to read up on why, and how to get around that.
+% and -% and well even just percentages. ah well a little thinking, and/or reading and you can figure it out. You can trust me, I have a monocole |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
12218
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 11:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Google "EVE learning curve" for a visual illustration. Basically the odd stuff comes from the very ad-hoc, beer-fueled, "that sounds awesome let's just put it in now and worry about the details later" method of feature development that CCP employed for about 7-8 years.
As mentioned, CCP have actually fixed a lot of these little issues - in fact EVE is immensely more polished than it was say 3 years ago. They've changed their dev process and now things are getting better.
Others remain for game balance reasons that aren't immediately obvious to a new players, and many more are simply on the "To Do" list, because 7 years of beer-fueled "Awesome!" takes a long time to clear up.
1 Kings 12:11
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Keno Skir
Vectis Covert Solutions
432
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Posted - 2013.10.29 12:37:00 -
[13] - Quote
You also need probing knowledge as well as skills.. Likely your tactics could improve a lot :) BUDDY TRIALS - 21days + ISK bonus + Starting Assistance : https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=77facad8-d941-45ad-95bc-c1ec90919b6b&action=buddy Feel free to contact me with questions :) |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
445
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 12:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:There is too much in EVE to document well, and that document would be massive tome and boring as heck. Probably the best attempt to date has been http://www.isktheguide.com/ and it is outdated and incomplete. Luckily it is an MMO, so you can ask and learn from others.
But we have EVElopedia.
Oh wait...
Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
393
|
Posted - 2013.10.29 15:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
A game that takes time to learn the ins and outs of?
What do you mean there's no arrow pointing where I should go?
You want me to learn from out of game sources?
Blasphemy!
((you'll come to appreciate a game that doesn't hold the hands of its playerbase))
p.s. it took me a full hour and a half (between trying to figure out where my ship was and how to undock, how to warp in space, etc.) to finish the very first tutorial mission. Mind you that was 2007 so the tutorial missions basically told you nothing. I actually logged out for a few days before I went back and figured out the game. Still learning. Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Donbe Scurred
University of Caille Gallente Federation
399
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Posted - 2013.10.29 18:10:00 -
[16] - Quote
Some people think learning and figuring things out for themselves or making friends that help you figure things out is fun.
Apparently you don't.
If everything was easy the game would be boring. Fortunately this game is hard and very entertaining. |
PeanutBuddah
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 02:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Donbe Scurred wrote:Some people think learning and figuring things out for themselves or making friends that help you figure things out is fun.
Apparently you don't.
If everything was easy the game would be boring. Fortunately this game is hard and very entertaining.
He didn't ask for the game to be easy. He asked for it to be intuitive. Big difference. |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1568
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 02:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Imagine playing chess.
Now imagine playing tic-tac-toe, but you have to use your feet to hold the pencil.
Which one is more difficult? Which one is more complex? |
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