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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
45thtiger 0109
AL3XAND3R.
17
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Posted - 2013.10.29 01:07:00 -
[91] - Quote
ISD Suvetar wrote:Hi,
We understand that people are eager to discuss this matter; We (ISD) have decided to use this thread as a container so that people may post their views.
Please don't let this devolve into any kind of RMT discussion or otherwise, and we will let this stay open.
Thank you for your patience and understanding.
I concur with the above quote.
Great Job ISD Suvetar in keeping the Forum nice and clean
As I have said in the other area of the forum that i do not see that CCP & Somer Blink did anything wrong.
If CCP donated ships to Somer Blink for prizes I accept that.
I wish people get the facts right instead of using the blame game.
This is a game and CCP has put allot of man hours in making EvE a great game as it is.
Lets play the game as what it made for, instead of bringing politics in the game because politics can kill a game. I am not a CCP employee-ájust having a input in the EvE forum
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
9904
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Posted - 2013.10.29 01:09:00 -
[92] - Quote
Nice business there... not only for-profit in-game, but even more so for-profit oog.
/c
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RAW23
325
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Posted - 2013.10.29 01:20:00 -
[93] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:RAW23 wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:You know what?
Bravo. Bravo to SOMER for finding a loophole and making an absolute killing off it. I for one like to applaud someone with a sense of business. Not only have they found a way to legally 'sell' in-game currency, they're doing it in a way where most of the money goes straight to the developer.
None of the money for the referral fee (which is what is swapped for the ingame currency) goes to the developer. You seem a little confused on this front. Yeah except the player doesn't buy a GTC for a referral fee. The player buys a GTC for the full price, most of which ends up directly at CCP.
Sure. But that's the case for any GTC sale. Adding in a Somer isk for cash element doesn't change that.
Also, sorry for my snappy tone in the previous post. It's late and I've been arguing too much. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
Frying Doom
2867
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Posted - 2013.10.29 01:22:00 -
[94] - Quote
45thtiger 0109 wrote:This is a game and CCP has put allot of man hours in making EvE a great game as it is. . Shame CCP had to ruin it. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
TigerXtrm
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
209
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Posted - 2013.10.29 01:26:00 -
[95] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:RAW23 wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:You know what?
Bravo. Bravo to SOMER for finding a loophole and making an absolute killing off it. I for one like to applaud someone with a sense of business. Not only have they found a way to legally 'sell' in-game currency, they're doing it in a way where most of the money goes straight to the developer.
None of the money for the referral fee (which is what is swapped for the ingame currency) goes to the developer. You seem a little confused on this front. Yeah except the player doesn't buy a GTC for a referral fee. The player buys a GTC for the full price, most of which ends up directly at CCP. Sure. But that's the case for any GTC sale. Adding in a Somer isk for cash element doesn't change that. Also, sorry for my snappy tone in the previous post. It's late and I've been arguing too much.
My point was that, as far as RMT goes, the money paid for in-game currency normally doesn't end up with the game developer. CCP made a system where the money does end up back with them and SOMER is an extension of that existing legal system. My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things! |
Diomedes Calypso
Aetolian Armada
149
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Posted - 2013.10.29 01:41:00 -
[96] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:RAW23 wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:RAW23 wrote:TigerXtrm wrote:You know what?
Bravo. Bravo to SOMER for finding a loophole and making an absolute killing off it. I for one like to applaud someone with a sense of business. Not only have they found a way to legally 'sell' in-game currency, they're doing it in a way where most of the money goes straight to the developer.
None of the money for the referral fee (which is what is swapped for the ingame currency) goes to the developer. You seem a little confused on this front. Yeah except the player doesn't buy a GTC for a referral fee. The player buys a GTC for the full price, most of which ends up directly at CCP. Sure. But that's the case for any GTC sale. Adding in a Somer isk for cash element doesn't change that. Also, sorry for my snappy tone in the previous post. It's late and I've been arguing too much. My point was that, as far as RMT goes, the money paid for in-game currency normally doesn't end up with the game developer. CCP made a system where the money does end up back with them and SOMER is an extension of that existing legal system.
That's why I'm thinking that it could all be above board IF at one point a player had a PLEX... and in game asset , to do what they wanted at their choosing with.
SOMER would need to be blind to the source of that in game asset... a PLEX.. without any knowledge of who sold the GTC the plex came from.
Somer could pay extra Isk for the ingame asset and give EXTRA isk to existing constomers ... customers of their LOTTO, not customers of their GTC store.
Obviously, SOMER would limmit how many times a player could get more isk from them... and they could base that on how much each player played their lotto and made them ISK in-game.
Why would SOMER agree to that ? By offereing the bonus only to players that already made them more isk than the bonus, they'd keep themseve from being expoited in terms of ISK. Somer would only make $ if PLAYERs (not characters) chose to make the out of game transaction with them.....instead of another seller of gtcs that could make the identical plex to be exchanged.
The reality is.. many players would have loyalty to Somer and buy their plex via their easy method...yet many players woule be loyal to their corps and buy gtcs and get the isk rebate from SOMER....who would only be rebating what the player already made for them from their house Rake in the lottos they participated in.
I know I'm repeating myself here.. but.. I really think it is a clean alternative that draws sharp lines between the in game and out of game assets. . |
Cuddle Monster
Schwarzschild Casimir Collective STR8NGE BREW
3
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Posted - 2013.10.29 01:42:00 -
[97] - Quote
I am not going to pretend to know what SOMER's hosting fees are because I have no clue. However I do have experience in what it costs to run a website that I feel has very similar traffic and the hardware, technology, and service levels needed to run a site such as that. While those costs are EXTREMELY variable I would not bat an eye if they came out and said it was in excess of $2,000 a month to maintain the site. |
The Greenmachine Greenmachine
Green's Bicycle Shop
62
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Posted - 2013.10.29 01:48:00 -
[98] - Quote
wouldn't it be funny if it was ccp's plan from the beginning to just scam the **** out of all you people by purposely treating their customers in the manner they have and designing the game to extract the most amount of $. Indirectly and directly but it all ends up in their pockets in the very end. What if this is a giant CCP metagaming trick on all of you. Now that would be funny. |
Frying Doom
2868
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Posted - 2013.10.29 01:53:00 -
[99] - Quote
While the CSM may stop CCP blundering from time to time, CCP really pick good ones not to talk over with the CSM.
But then again members of the CSM have told us, "a quick resolution is unlikely to be one you will like" and" I can't be bothered to talk to naive children." and the Best Quote Yet
Jester wrote:"Do you think EVE players shoot themselves in the foot by challenging CCP when they give things away to community organizers?" I answered that in my experience, CCP takes player concerns seriously and in those few cases where those concerns are fueled by unjustified anger, the company tends to be very understanding and forgiving. And when those concerns are justified, CCP has shown a history of listening. Sometimes, getting them to listen requires fairly extraordinary efforts, but they do listen. emphasis mine
so once again for your viewing pleasure CCP Hilmar.
CCP Hilmar wrote:Currently we are seeing _very predictable feedback_ on what we are doing. Having the perspective of having done this for a decade, I can tell you that this is one of the moments where we look at what our players do and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change. emphasis mine
CCP really has a history of listening......To their wallet.
So I will admit the CSM atm just seems to be telling us all through this how wrong we are and how right CCP are.
I am so glad they are there to represent us in these times of crisis. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
580
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Posted - 2013.10.29 02:04:00 -
[100] - Quote
Everyone wants to talk about the real issue here, but no-one is allowed to talk about the real issue here.
Would be nice for CCP to just come out and make a clear statement. Just how long do they plan to just ignore all these threads? There certainly seems to be alot of confusing comparisons, SOMER is allowed, but this isn't, and yet they are the same thing.
With the amount of petty things the community has mass-protested over, I'm surprised this hasn't hit quite high on the scale.
Oh, and in before the lock. Post with your main, like a BOSS! |
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Jessica Danikov
FatalFleet Fatal Ascension
130
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Posted - 2013.10.29 02:11:00 -
[101] - Quote
I made a couple of diagrams to try and highlight whether SOMER blink and associated parties 'copying' them are RMTers. The whole album is here: http://imgur.com/a/ar0yI
Cross-posted from https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=290967 , see thread OP for more detail.
In short, I think SOMER are quite legit, at least by the current rules. I think what they've done has been quite enterprising, and the fact that it's based off of gambling is very EVE. I also think that they're a benefit to the community, encouraging people to use GTCs and give even more money to CCP than is necessary by subscription.
I'd love to see more competition in the space to dethrone them as the de facto monopoly in that space though. I think you're all idiots for gambling away your ISK, but EVE rewards people who take advantage of such people and this is no different. The GTC exploitation is quite valid and just SOMER being a victim of their own success |
Frying Doom
2869
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Posted - 2013.10.29 02:16:00 -
[102] - Quote
Except for the breach to the EULA I listed in the other thread. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
267
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Posted - 2013.10.29 02:17:00 -
[103] - Quote
Jessica Danikov wrote:The GTC exploitation is quite valid and just SOMER being a victim of their own success
Idk if making over $130,000 USD off a video game is appropriate in any universe, and then to be propped up and touted by the developer just reeks. I mean nobody even made that kind of bank in Diablo 3..
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Grog Barrel
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
53
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Posted - 2013.10.29 02:18:00 -
[104] - Quote
TigerXtrm wrote:You know what?
Bravo. Bravo to SOMER for finding a loophole and making an absolute killing off it. I for one like to applaud someone with a sense of business. Not only have they found a way to legally 'sell' in-game currency, they're doing it in a way where most of the money goes straight to the developer.
CCP is not against players buying ISK with real money, let's get that straight. If CCP wanted to prevent players buying money they wouldn't have introduced PLEX. That was a very deliberate move to offer players a legal way of buying ISK.
The thing CCP has always had a problem with were the shady RMT dealers who were botting all day long, installing shady viruses and stealing peoples money in some cases.
So what SOMER is doing is nothing more than an extension of the already legal PLEX system put in place by CCP.
Many people say "Oh RMT is legal as long as CCP gets the money?!"
Yes. That's exactly the point. That's why CCP introduced PLEX to begin with. So that any players who wants to buy ISK gives their money to CCP and not some shady Chinese company. SOMER is helping that cause and getting a commission for it. They set up an amazing business venture which probably grew larger than even they could have predicted. And I genuinely applaud them for it. Good job guys.
And to everyone who is crying RMT this RMT that I would suggest to set up your own venture of selling ISK in exchange for people using your affiliate link. You're supporting CCP, yourself and the player. It's a win-win-win. There are no losers.
"But now EVE is a pay-to-win game!"
Don't kid yourself. EVE has always been a pay-to-win game. Every MMO has to deal with illegal RMT. In every MMO you can buy currency to improve your game. EVE hasn't been any different since the start. You think all those large empires in 0.0 were founded on hard work and farming missions? Don't be naive, please. Hell, most Titans in the game are probably entirely RMT funded. RMT was around in 2003, RMT was around up to 2007 and CCP took control of the RMT market in 2008 by introducing the PLEX system. Now it's 2013 and guess what? RMT is still around, even allowing players to get in on a piece of the action. The capsuleers are taking control, right?
So again; bravo to SOMER. Keep up the awesome work and may you enjoy the spoils it got you.
As far as I understand, if someone is willing to applaud blink, it should be because of his skills at "contacts" with CCP, since the exclusiveness of his deeds is rather the chicken of the golden eggs. A lot of other people knew about the hole, but had different response/treatment from CCP.
c/d? |
Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
269
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Posted - 2013.10.29 03:09:00 -
[105] - Quote
Grog Barrel wrote:As far as I understand, if someone is willing to applaud blink, it should be because of his skills at "contacts" with CCP, since the exclusiveness of his deeds is rather the chicken of the golden eggs. A lot of other people knew about the hole, but had different response/treatment from CCP.
c/d?
It seems like people are bandwaggoning now and being shut down. Except for that one player in the Noizygamer blog. Obviously there needs to be some kind of blanket ruling that applies to everyone.
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IDGAD
Get in the van I have candy.
32
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Posted - 2013.10.29 04:33:00 -
[106] - Quote
It's really sad to see such sites being shut down with such an obvious double standard. What's going on here? First we see some devs giving away guardian vexors and ishukone scorps to blink, and now we see devs and GMs banning those who try to do the same thing as blink? I honestly don't know what to think at this point. Is CCP really involved with blink, or have they recently broken down completely and lost all sense in fairness and equality that EVE is based on.
EVE is about being harsh and unforgiving, but it is fair. It was designed to be fair in the truest manner possible. It is fair that if you fight in equal ships, the one with better skills will almost always win. It is fair that everyone has the same skill training time. But where CCP is starting to break the game is when they bring in these double standards which are blatant favoritism on the scale of the BoB BPO scandal and other horridly corrupt events. I'm starting to worry that maybe some of the devs left CCP because they saw what it was degrading into, and perhaps this is only going to get worse?
If we think back not too long ago, some of you may remember we had a similar issue with lack of vision and doing incredibly stupid things around the time Incarna was released. Afterword Hilmar apologized, CCP got restructured, and many were purged from the company. After that restructure we saw some amazing expansions with the vision and dedication to the game that we've always expected from CCP..... but now it seems like they are slowly diving back into that mediocrity with small patches and releasing content many don't really care for. |
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
557
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Posted - 2013.10.29 04:42:00 -
[107] - Quote
I wonder how many of you blockheads gamble daily on that website and sink real money into it rather than going to a casino or race track where your odds are much better and you win real money.
Looks like some real shady sh!t to me and is probably going into some grey (or not so grey) areas of international gaming laws.
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Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2013.10.29 04:59:00 -
[108] - Quote
CCP is obviously involved in less than steallar business practices when it comes to obtaining/exploting additional revenue streams. In all truth we as a playerbase have NEVER had a reason to trust these guys since the old BOB days...NONE!
They have no credibility and the fact that they have been trolling us on this topic is just another example of their true contempt for us as a whole.
Scumbaggery for sure. |
destiny2
Perkone Caldari State
211
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Posted - 2013.10.29 05:37:00 -
[109] - Quote
Officer spawn belt 1 GO GO GO GO |
Carrey Winter
Hoover Inc. Black Legion.
13
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Posted - 2013.10.29 05:57:00 -
[110] - Quote
Ok, CCP simple question:
Why was this closed, but somer is allowed to give tickets to lotteries for affiliates? And if the Nyx lottery was closed, why is paying out ISK directly tolerated instead?
If the Nyx lottery also allowed people to buy tickets for lets say 300m ISK - would it then be allowed? There would be no difference to Blinks model then. |
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Leigh Akiga
State War Academy Caldari State
270
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Posted - 2013.10.29 07:06:00 -
[111] - Quote
Carrey Winter wrote:Ok, CCP simple question: Why was this closed, but somer is allowed to give tickets to lotteries for affiliates? And if the Nyx lottery was closed, why is paying out ISK directly tolerated instead? If the Nyx lottery also allowed people to buy tickets for lets say 300m ISK - would it then be allowed? There would be no difference to Blinks model then.
Clearly you havent contributed enough to the community like Somer. |
adarma
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2013.10.29 07:30:00 -
[112] - Quote
ISD Suvetar wrote:Hi,
We understand that people are eager to discuss this matter; We (ISD) have decided to use this thread as a container so that people may post their views.
Please don't let this devolve into any kind of RMT discussion or otherwise, and we will let this stay open.
Thank you for your patience and understanding.
People are just worried that CCP swept this whole issue under the carpet and went total radio silence. Certainly, weeks of nothing happening should not be a good sign. It is a actually a pretty sure sign that they are hoping this issue to be dissolved into Rubicon excitement and that we simply forget it and shut up! |
Frying Doom
2876
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Posted - 2013.10.29 07:49:00 -
[113] - Quote
adarma wrote:ISD Suvetar wrote:Hi,
We understand that people are eager to discuss this matter; We (ISD) have decided to use this thread as a container so that people may post their views.
Please don't let this devolve into any kind of RMT discussion or otherwise, and we will let this stay open.
Thank you for your patience and understanding.
People are just worried that CCP swept this whole issue under the carpet and went total radio silence. Certainly, weeks of nothing happening should not be a good sign. It is a actually a pretty sure sign that they are hoping this issue to be dissolved into Rubicon excitement and that we simply forget it and shut up! That would probably be the case if this was a real expansion, like Apocrypha or Trinity.
But strangely after having spent 50% more on Development none of it seams to be making it to EvE. We are just getting a patch.
Well Dust, EvE VR and WoD should be coming on rather well. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1087
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Posted - 2013.10.29 07:55:00 -
[114] - Quote
Could totally-not-RMT drama be better than waffles? |
Baali Tekitsu
B0SSAURA xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
143
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Posted - 2013.10.29 07:56:00 -
[115] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Could totally-not-RMT drama be better than waffles? Why not have 'em both? |
Vera Algaert
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1087
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Posted - 2013.10.29 08:00:00 -
[116] - Quote
Can puny mortals even call God unjust?
Isn't justice defined by the actions of God and our human conception of it just a flawed reflection of true (divine) justice?
What leg can you stand on when rebelling against the gods? |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4469
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Posted - 2013.10.29 08:03:00 -
[117] - Quote
KnowUsByTheDead wrote:How about CCP's new stance on completely ignoring their playerbase.
Bolded the word that made me chuckle.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
4469
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Posted - 2013.10.29 08:06:00 -
[118] - Quote
Leigh Akiga wrote: Clearly you havent contributed enough to the community like Somer.
Dude don't be so sarcastic!
When CCP says "community", they intend the shareholders community!
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Frying Doom
2876
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Posted - 2013.10.29 08:08:00 -
[119] - Quote
Vera Algaert wrote:Can puny mortals even call God unjust?
Isn't justice defined by the actions of God and our human conception of it just a flawed reflection of true (divine) justice?
What leg can you stand on when rebelling against the gods? Lets not go down the religious path, how about we call CCP the King.
Louis XVI of France, sounds about right. Any spelling and grammatical errors are because frankly, I don't care!! |
Jove Death
Jovian Vengeance
120
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Posted - 2013.10.29 08:26:00 -
[120] - Quote
Ok time to step it back a bit
I may be wrong but even SOMER chars havent defended themselves once in all of this. Which makes me wonder who is actually SOMER blink.
A corp of 57 chars of which looking and running checks on via EVE WHO (EVE WHO should have got some free stuff too) there start up dates and links via other corps ie Market alliance seem that there pretty much full of alts. There losses pretty much show just cyno alts.
So on the run down a couple of questions I would like to throw in the pot.
1. Who is SOMER run by and are they just alts of CCP. Im only pointing this out as they are not replying to any of the forums like the devs to defend themselves. Then again they maybe like the devs and have more important things to do than speak to us game players. 2. With the Ishkone giveaway how did CCP obtain the correct members who are actually active in game as they have stated this was rewarded to active gamers in EvE. Also how the hell did they get CCP Guards corpse to throw in with a blink. 3. On the part of the RMT does CCP have direct contact with SOMER on how they are running the show. And do they have access to these figures of how much RL money SOMER are gaining due to CCPs game.
With these 3 questions in mind in my own mind Im starting to think SOMER is actually run by CCP alts and is another way of generating isk. We all know CCP has alts that are running around in game with nobody knowing who or where they are.
BTW this is only an assumption Quoting "you will die" in EvE is fail Chars dont die in EvE. Unless you have a heart attack eek
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