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Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
361
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Posted - 2013.10.30 03:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Simple, if you are using a stabilized frigate or a ship that has a cloak on it you cannot run the timer, nor do you gain any LP should you be in range of someone completing the timer.
This allows for legitimate tactics (if you are using cloaks for an ambush you are there to kill and not farm), while nullifying the cheese tactics used by farmers. Of course they can still align out and warp away, but they risk being committed as well. |
Violet Crumble
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2013.10.30 04:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
-1 from me for this way to fix it.
I think I would prefer to see each plex structure have a warp disruption field around it.
Anyone close enough to be running the timer down isn't able to warp at all and needs to slow boat away before warping out. Farmers can still run, but need to at least have some period where they remain in the plex so another ship can try to get them.
Farmers will sit just inside the field and be ready to cross it at a moment's notice, so this isn't much of a nerf to farming, but it at least gives others a chance to catch, tackle and engage.
I also think if you engage in a FW plex, there should be no sec status hit for aggression. The sites are setup for fights, so why penalise a player who goes there to fight.
At the moment, the smart farmers allow you to agress and then they run away. Try everything once |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
361
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Posted - 2013.10.30 04:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Warp Disruption field stops you from boomeranging your enemy quickly. (Warping away from the plex and then back to the gate to catch people on the outside)
Also it would open up alot of abuse. I would in particular fit webs and no warp disruptor. - as there would be no need for one. Tackling should be the job of the player. This would not fix farming completely, but it would stop the abuse of Warp Core stabilizers and cloaks. It forces a farmer to at least pay attention and learn how to use D-Scan. Not just sit there, wait for me to point them and then run away. If they do not pay attention they will be pointed and killed.
I agree that there should be no security hit for engaging within a plex. Atleast to FW players. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2118
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Posted - 2013.10.30 04:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
timer resets - if you cloak or run the timer resets eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
361
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Posted - 2013.10.30 04:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:timer resets - if you cloak or run the timer resets
Agreed with this idea completely as well. Still think core stabs and cloaks should not be able to run the plexes though. (though they can enter and fight in them) |
Trinkets friend
Rules of Acquisition Acquisition Of Empire
1207
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Posted - 2013.10.30 05:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
I thought it was a good idea to ban cloaks.
Others thought it was a great idea to ban stabs.
WHY DON'T WE HAVE BOTH? YOLO is the Carpe Diem of Gen Y http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order Samurai Pizza Cats
671
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Posted - 2013.10.30 05:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote:Simple, if you are using a stabilized frigate or a ship that has a cloak on it you cannot run the timer, nor do you gain any LP should you be in range of someone completing the timer.
This allows for legitimate tactics (if you are using cloaks for an ambush you are there to kill and not farm), while nullifying the cheese tactics used by farmers. Of course they can still align out and warp away, but they risk being committed as well.
I have suggested the same thing before. And i still think its a great idea :p Though i wouldnt go as far as to deny them LP if they are around the button and uncloaked on completion of the plex.
This and timer roll backs really reduces the tool kit of afk evasion farmers.
As for warp disruption fields inside pexes, that is indeed quite possibly the most ******** idea ive ever heard. |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
362
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Posted - 2013.10.30 05:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Exactly. I believe that if we were to ban the use of Stabilizers and Cloaks that it would be taking away from the "Freedom" aspect. But at the same time I believe there should be consequences for this level of risk aversion. Cloaks and Stabs would still be useable, but not profitable. So if you were to set up a recon cloak gank gang it would still enter the plex but be unable to run the button. That being said you wouldn't want to run the button with a setup like that anyways.
Because of this I believe it will at the very least force farmers to focus on D-Scan and align out. They will still farm, but if they screw up they will be running away in a Pod. Reason I would have them also be ineligible for LP on top of it?
Well, once they realize they cant run the timer themselves, they will wait for real players to run the timer down and swoop in to take the LP. So screw those guys. |
Trinkets friend
Rules of Acquisition Acquisition Of Empire
1214
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Posted - 2013.11.01 00:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
America didn't destroy Iraq by hiding in the bushes every time an enemy tank came near, lets put it that way. YOLO is the Carpe Diem of Gen Y http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
74
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Posted - 2013.11.01 15:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Trinkets friend wrote:America didn't destroy Iraq by hiding in the bushes every time an enemy tank came near, lets put it that way.
Nope they just used Stealth bombers invisible to radar, unmanned drones and cruise missile strikes from thousands of miles away.
I'm just saying... |
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Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1524
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Posted - 2013.11.01 22:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote:Simple, if you are using a stabilized frigate or a ship that has a cloak on it you cannot run the timer, nor do you gain any LP should you be in range of someone completing the timer.
This allows for legitimate tactics (if you are using cloaks for an ambush you are there to kill and not farm), while nullifying the cheese tactics used by farmers. Of course they can still align out and warp away, but they risk being committed as well.
Dumb idea. -1 "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1524
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Posted - 2013.11.01 22:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ghost Phius wrote:Trinkets friend wrote:America didn't destroy Iraq by hiding in the bushes every time an enemy tank came near, lets put it that way. Nope they just used Stealth bombers invisible to radar, unmanned drones and cruise missile strikes from thousands of miles away. I'm just saying...
America!! F' Yeah!!! "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
ZheoTheThird
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
135
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Posted - 2013.11.01 22:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote:Simple, if you are using a stabilized frigate or a ship that has a cloak on it you cannot run the timer, nor do you gain any LP should you be in range of someone completing the timer.
This allows for legitimate tactics (if you are using cloaks for an ambush you are there to kill and not farm), while nullifying the cheese tactics used by farmers. Of course they can still align out and warp away, but they risk being committed as well.
ITT: elite pvpers who are butthurt that they need to actually adjust their fit to double scrams to kill farmers |
Knights Armament
Operator Chan
85
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Posted - 2013.11.01 23:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Why don't we get LP per minute instead of LP at completion? I'd say that I wouldn't need stabbers/cloak to farm lp if I didn't have to run away from some guy on 5 accounts every 2 minutes while running a plex, I could just get my lp for ticking the timer, and still get something for dying/fighting in pvp.
I think stabs, and cloak are an integral part of the game, CCP has allowed blob warfare to take over, solo players with one account are at a distinct disadvantage especially with low skill points. I think the real problem here is that corporations or farmers want to remove the competition from faction LP by nerfing stabs and cloak. https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=29554516-05f9-4eca-a942-32e1701a6569&action=buddy |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
77
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Posted - 2013.11.02 14:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
This reminds me of what Taoist Dragon wrote on the subject in one of the MANY locked threads on this topic.
Taoist Dragon wrote: Give it up.
FW has had all the major changes it's going to get for a while. CCP has to move onto other areas that are way more broken than FW, dullsec for example.
If you seriously don't like how FW works nowadays, go fly somewhere else.....
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Tetsuo Tsukaya
Pixel Navigators
193
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Posted - 2013.11.02 15:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
Stabilized farmer solution - 720mm artillery
/thread |
Xiderpunk
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
3
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Posted - 2013.11.03 08:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
In my opinion reducing the LP reward from plexing and increasing the reward for successful FW kills would help reduce the numbers of farmers and increase the risks people will take. |
Gordin Brott
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
3
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Posted - 2013.11.03 14:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
I once told a bunch of novice farmers in Militia Chat that each warp stabber they fitted reduced their LP reward by 25%. I intended it as a quick throwaway remark, which would be quickly rebutted. Instead, people actually believed me.
This might not be such a bad idea. The in-character justification for it could be something like their respective militia penalising the pilot for demonstrating 'less than total dedication to their adopted cause'. |
ZheoTheThird
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
139
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Posted - 2013.11.03 17:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Why exactly are stabbed farmers a problem? People with stabs purposely gimp their fits in order to do one specific thing: disengaging. There is no rule that states that you need to take a fight. Isn't the sandbox what eve is about? If someone choses to fly something that is terrible at fighting but really good at running, where's the problem? Instead of complaining, adapt. Some of you are bigger carebears than the farmers, jesus |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
375
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Posted - 2013.11.03 22:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
ZheoTheThird wrote:Why exactly are stabbed farmers a problem? People with stabs purposely gimp their fits in order to do one specific thing: disengaging. There is no rule that states that you need to take a fight. Isn't the sandbox what eve is about? If someone choses to fly something that is terrible at fighting but really good at running, where's the problem? Instead of complaining, adapt. Some of you are bigger carebears than the farmers, jesus
You don't need stabs or cloak to escape a plex. Most descent players will he pre-aligned if their sole duty is to farm, the difference is that they cannot twiddle their thumbs and waste peoples time by fitting stabs or cloaking up. It goes against the entire idea of Factional Warfare and is counter productive - this is a change that would not eliminate farming, but would discourage some of these tactics.
Essentially you shouldn't "Have" to take the fight, but if you have absolutely 0 intent of fighting then why should you benefit from a system that is solely based around PvP? Run the FW missions instead. At the end of the day I am indifferent as to whether this would actually get implemented or not, but it would reduce the amount of BS that fills up this forum about farming. |
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ZheoTheThird
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
143
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Posted - 2013.11.03 23:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote:ZheoTheThird wrote:Why exactly are stabbed farmers a problem? People with stabs purposely gimp their fits in order to do one specific thing: disengaging. There is no rule that states that you need to take a fight. Isn't the sandbox what eve is about? If someone choses to fly something that is terrible at fighting but really good at running, where's the problem? Instead of complaining, adapt. Some of you are bigger carebears than the farmers, jesus You don't need stabs or cloak to escape a plex. Most descent players will he pre-aligned if their sole duty is to farm, the difference is that they cannot twiddle their thumbs and waste peoples time by fitting stabs or cloaking up. It goes against the entire idea of Factional Warfare and is counter productive - this is a change that would not eliminate farming, but would discourage some of these tactics. Essentially you shouldn't "Have" to take the fight, but if you have absolutely 0 intent of fighting then why should you benefit from a system that is solely based around PvP? Run the FW missions instead. At the end of the day I am indifferent as to whether this would actually get implemented or not, but it would reduce the amount of BS that fills up this forum about farming.
I don't know why you think that plexing is solely based around PvP. It offers opportunities for PvP, sure, but so does ratting, exploration or even mining in the widest sense. System takeovers are about PvP. |
Theroine
Justified Chaos
47
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Posted - 2013.11.05 03:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
As much as I %&^#@$& hate stabbed, cloaky farmers, I don't think banning the use of these modules is the right way to go. Roll back timers at a fixed rate (slower than if done by deplexing) if farmers are cloaked or leave the plex. Make it where the rats warp out and back if not pointed. Timers would not run either way during this time.
As soon as CCP starts messing with modules to solve this problem/irritation, what's to stop other people to start suggesting that something needs to be done for people who enjoy logging onto Eve, cloaking up in a system, and playing WOT. Imagine what those threads would look like. |
Xiderpunk
Noob Mercs Monkeys with Guns.
5
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Posted - 2013.11.05 04:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
ZheoTheThird wrote:Sean Parisi wrote:ZheoTheThird wrote:Why exactly are stabbed farmers a problem? People with stabs purposely gimp their fits in order to do one specific thing: disengaging. There is no rule that states that you need to take a fight. Isn't the sandbox what eve is about? If someone choses to fly something that is terrible at fighting but really good at running, where's the problem? Instead of complaining, adapt. Some of you are bigger carebears than the farmers, jesus You don't need stabs or cloak to escape a plex. Most descent players will he pre-aligned if their sole duty is to farm, the difference is that they cannot twiddle their thumbs and waste peoples time by fitting stabs or cloaking up. It goes against the entire idea of Factional Warfare and is counter productive - this is a change that would not eliminate farming, but would discourage some of these tactics. Essentially you shouldn't "Have" to take the fight, but if you have absolutely 0 intent of fighting then why should you benefit from a system that is solely based around PvP? Run the FW missions instead. At the end of the day I am indifferent as to whether this would actually get implemented or not, but it would reduce the amount of BS that fills up this forum about farming. I don't know why you think that plexing is solely based around PvP. It offers opportunities for PvP, sure, but so does ratting, exploration or even mining in the widest sense. System takeovers are about PvP.
Plexing is a requirement for System takeovers so I am not sure what your point is? The fact is farmers are not here for their respective militia's or alliances, they are here to solo earn LP. Many of the recent Gallente farmers are now on Caldari alts.. as soon as Caldari has more systems they can jump back to Gallente and offensive plex. It is abusing the system and as it has a direct impact on both militias that's why people get annoyed by it. Stick around FW and I guarantee you will change your opinion on this.
Personally, I would never do it for no other reason than, if I got caught (and most farmers do eventually!) a lossmail of that 'shame' would be on my record forever. Stabbed venture dying in an FW zone is extremely embarrassing. |
Jafit McJafitson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
437
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 05:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
Anyone who wants to cap a plex should have to play the hacking minigame. If we're going to be forced to pay attention to Eve while doing literally nothing for 15 minutes then we may as well give players a minigame to play to keep them occupied instead of letting them fit stabs and alt-tab out to watch Adventure Time instead.
But we all know that the whining won't stop if stabs and cloaks are banned from plexes.
Soon...
Quote:CCP pls ban griffins and other ECM ships from capping plexes. I keep getting jammed/damped/ECM burst and losing point on plexers :'(
Quote:CCP pls ban nanos and inertial stabilizers on plexing ships. The plexers are aligning out too quickly and I can't catch them :'(
Quote:CCP please ban people who don't want to let me kill them from capping plexes, they keep watching dscan and running away :'(
Yeah I think people fitting stabs is a symptom of the poor state of affairs that is Eve pvp. You have only yourselves to blame. Deal with it. Adapt to the meta, fit two scrams and actually take the risk of dying in a fire to anyone who actually does want to fight back. |
Thorin Matarielle
Shirak SkunkWorks
0
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Posted - 2013.11.05 06:31:00 -
[25] - Quote
My opinion:
Ships with Stabs wouldn't be able to enter into FW plexes, the accelaration gate should keep them outside so as the cloaky ships except bombers and recons. (their ROLE to be cloaky)
These plexes meant to be dedicated places for fight, ship fitted to AVOID fights should stay away from this places. The fleet boosters got nerfed because they have to be vulnerable if they can give bonuses to someone who fight. Therefore farmers shouldn't be able to affect the war if they doesn't wants to fight. Is that simple. If i dont want to fight i'll stay docked. So finally i can decomission my sensor boosted Dramiel with her 2xTrue Sansha Scrambler (6 points ftw ) and then i can put the shiny combat fit back on. |
Powers Sa
705
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 07:19:00 -
[26] - Quote
You are not entitled to PVP on your own terms. If someone wants to have a WCS and warp away, then they should be able to. It's a valid tactic. That's just the EVE way. |
Sean Parisi
Fugutive Task Force A T O N E M E N T
375
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 07:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Just to clarify - My proposition is not to "Ban" cloaks or warp core stabilizers. Under this idea you would still be able to essentially bring them into a plex, whether it is to bait, trap, etc. But if you must fit those to your ship, you make yourself ineligible to receiving FW LP from the PLEX or to run down the timer unless someone else without them comes into the PLEX.
People can still PvP on their own terms. But the point of FW at its core is a mechanic that encourages conflict. Both of these tools are counter intuitive to that and should not provide farmers with rewards. People would still be able to farm - They could easily align out and click warp whenever they would want to. But atleast they would have to pay attention. |
Morrigan LeSante
The Lost and Forgotten Troopers
434
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Posted - 2013.11.05 08:12:00 -
[28] - Quote
Thorin Matarielle wrote:The fleet boosters got nerfed because they have to be vulnerable if they can give bonuses to someone who fight. Therefore farmers shouldn't be able to affect the war if they doesn't wants to fight. Is that simple.
Fleet boosters got nerfed because they were uncatchable (Assuming you're talking about the death of unprobable boosters), these farmers are catchable with some effort/retrofitting.
If farmers warp off, they dont take the plex therefore aren't affecting the war effort. If no-one is there to make them warp off and they take the plex - does their fit matter...?
If they warp out, or die in a fire they don't cap anyway.
As much as I can understand the annoyance, a cornerstone of eve is messing with the other guys game plan. I put these actions about in the same category as miner bumping tbh. |
Powers Sa
707
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Posted - 2013.11.05 16:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote:Just to clarify - My proposition is not to "Ban" cloaks or warp core stabilizers. Under this idea you would still be able to essentially bring them into a plex, whether it is to bait, trap, etc. But if you must fit those to your ship, you make yourself ineligible to receiving FW LP from the PLEX or to run down the timer unless someone else without them comes into the PLEX.
People can still PvP on their own terms. But the point of FW at its core is a mechanic that encourages conflict. Both of these tools are counter intuitive to that and should not provide farmers with rewards. People would still be able to farm - They could easily align out and click warp whenever they would want to. But atleast they would have to pay attention. What would you have to complain about if ccp changed that? |
The Djentleman Paulson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
142
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Posted - 2013.11.05 19:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
ALOT TIMES I WANT RAT OR MINING BUT PEOPLE R CLOAKED IN MY SYSTEM I PAY GOON FOR SO ITS MINE BUT THEY ARE CLOAK SO CANT DO PLS CCP FIX PLS |
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