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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Novenas Heresy
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
4
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Forgive me if this is a stupid question that has been answered before, but why do we have TOS rule #18:
Quote:You may not publish private communications from CCP, their agents or representatives or EVE Online volunteers without authorization.
EvE is the only MMO I've ever played, but is this a common rule in other MMO's? Wouldn't an open and transparent decision making process be beneficial? Of course there are people out there that will look for any excuse to get out of being punished, but surely the benefits outweigh the costs.
Only in this past week we've seen a decision made in the whole SOMER blink RMT debate, with Katerina Reid stating that CCP has communicated to her that she can't offer ISK rewards for GTC referrals any more, but she's unable to go into any detail because of rule #18. Then there's Astecus losing his high sec Archon and getting a 2 week ban for (and I'm sure I'm simplifying here) *asking* if he was allowed to shoot NOCO's with it, and again he's not permitted to tell us about what the GM involved said in what seems to be a bizarre decision.
I believe that while CCP as a company has to back up their GM staff when it comes to helping them enforce the rules, and remembering that rules have to be sufficiently pliable to be able to cover unforeseen circumstances, shouldn't the GM's be held to a certain standard when performing their duties?
Quote:Whatever hysteria exists is inflamed by mystery, suspicion and secrecy. Hard and exact facts will cool it. Elia Kazan
Seems to me a great deal of the conflict between CCP and its user base could be done away with in one fell swoop if rule #18 went the way of the dodo... |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
4231
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
First! |
oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope Gallente Federation
195
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
SECOND I HOPE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nlJuwO0GDs |
Novenas Heresy
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
4
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:First!
Do people still do "first"? Is that still a thing? |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
116
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
I belive it will boil down to his 2wek ban being becasue he got him self flaged. IE he must have broke one of the rules govening caps in highsec to get him self flaged. Thats what the 2 week ban will be for |
Myrissa Kistel
Planetary Logistics
43
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Its not like case law. They don't have the time and don't need the players going on susch and such date you let this situation go and mine is sort of like that with a bit of this GM ticker here. By keeping it secret they can handle each situation on its own merits.
Thats my theory. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
4231
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
oOReikaOo Michiko wrote:SECOND I HOPE Back onto your treadmill, woman! Maybe that'll help you finish first some day.
*giggles* xD |
Novenas Heresy
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
5
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lord LazyGhost wrote:I belive it will boil down to his 2wek ban being becasue he got him self flaged. IE he must have broke one of the rules govening caps in highsec to get him self flaged. Thats what the 2 week ban will be for
He could have looted another players can, that would give him a suspect flag wouldn't it? He couldn't have aggressed anyone, did you see the fit? http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=20212352 |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
4231
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Novenas Heresy wrote:Solstice Project wrote:First! Do people still do "first"? Is that still a thing? Haven't done this for a long time and i don't see it happening any more. I was rushing through options and this was the first to trigger a bodily response. |
Novenas Heresy
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
5
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:28:00 -
[10] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote:Novenas Heresy wrote:Solstice Project wrote:First! Do people still do "first"? Is that still a thing? Haven't done this for a long time and i don't see it happening any more. I was rushing through options and this was the first to trigger a bodily response.
I think the appropriate response in today's EvE is "In before lock and ban!" :P |
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oOReikaOo Michiko
The Scope Gallente Federation
197
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Novenas Heresy wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Novenas Heresy wrote:Solstice Project wrote:First! Do people still do "first"? Is that still a thing? Haven't done this for a long time and i don't see it happening any more. I was rushing through options and this was the first to trigger a bodily response. I think the appropriate response in today's EvE is "In before lock and ban!" :P
or "This thread is now about kittens"**
** can also be ponies with a picture to mylittlepony http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nlJuwO0GDs |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion xXPlease Pandemic Citizens Reloaded Alliance.Xx
4665
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Novenas Heresy wrote: Seems to me a great deal of the conflict between CCP and its user base could be done away withgenerated rapidly in one fell swoop if rule #18 went the way of the dodo...
FYP
Did someone mention kittens?
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
4231
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 16:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Novenas Heresy wrote:Solstice Project wrote:Novenas Heresy wrote:Solstice Project wrote:First! Do people still do "first"? Is that still a thing? Haven't done this for a long time and i don't see it happening any more. I was rushing through options and this was the first to trigger a bodily response. I think the appropriate response in today's EvE is "In before lock and ban!" :P If by "appropriate" you mean something connected to social rules then i will happily do the very opposite.
Also... as the famous opeea star i am not ... imagine this in the voice of Pavarotti .....
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn beforethe
(deep voice)
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOCK! |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
3930
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Novenas Heresy wrote:Forgive me if this is a stupid question that has been answered before, but why do we have TOS rule #18:
CCP does not want players comparing notes publicly, otherwise they would have to address how irregular and unbalanced some of their decisions and policies are. CCP must maintain the perception they are in control and player concerns are addressed fairly and equally, even when it is demonstrated that is not the case..
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
RAW23
373
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
The reason is in order to minimise accountability for their actions. GMs, in particular, rarely know what they are talking about in the first pass of a petition and it would be really embarassing if their ignorance of the game they run were publicly displayed. If it were permissible to make communication public then CCP and its employees would have a far harder time backtracking or acting in a hypocritical or arbitrary manner because it would be much easier to compare their current statements with historical ones. Banning publication of communications just gives them more room to make mistakes, really. I'm not sure that is entirely a bad thing but it is often used to cover up pretty gross errors. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4799
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 16:46:00 -
[16] - Quote
On the other hand, it could simply be because it's none of our business. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3374
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
I forgive you. It's okay. |
Jayne Fillon
Sanctuary of Shadows Axiomatic Dominion
128
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Posted - 2013.10.30 16:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ironically, this thread itself is in violation of forum rules 10 and 11. Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI. |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
52
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Posted - 2013.10.30 17:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:On the other hand, it could simply be because it's none of our business.
Considering the things not allowed to be discussed affect the game of players beyond the communication, clearly some of what is in some emails to the devs from one person is our business mate.
Anyway, as stated they are trying to avoid accountability...kind of reminds me of Richard Nixon's protestation, "When the President does it, that means it is not illegal" Yeah...we all know how that gem of logic worked out for him.... |
Na Und
Galactronics
78
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Posted - 2013.10.30 17:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Short answer to your question is that EVE's forums are littered with people whining about this or that. |
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Novenas Heresy
Black Scorpions Inc Circle-Of-Two
5
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Posted - 2013.10.30 17:08:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jayne Fillon wrote:Ironically, this thread itself is in violation of forum rules 10 and 11.
Consider me appropriately chastised! :P |
Ghost Phius
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
52
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Posted - 2013.10.30 17:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
.....And people not recognizing the difference between a serious and legitimate issue and the normal forum chatter. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
3026
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Posted - 2013.10.30 17:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
INB4 Lock
Fake Edit: Reika you best be in a tackler tonight D:<
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Prince Kobol
1068
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Posted - 2013.10.30 17:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
I have played a number of MMO's and they all state that you can not post communications from GM's
Its nothing new. |
Na Und
Galactronics
78
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 17:22:00 -
[25] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:I have played a number of MMO's and they all state that you can not post communications from GM's
Its nothing new.
This is the only MMO I play, but it makes sense . . . it would only lead to someone being denied something (or otherwise) by a GM (who has the authority), and running to the forums to "litigate" it. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1490
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Posted - 2013.10.30 17:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
AS far as I know, that archos came out and started triage repping miners to try to prevent ganks. That would be against the rules, since carriers still in high sec are not allowed to interact as far as I know. I think flying it and shooting off fireworks is about the limit.
Anyway, a lot of companies has a non-disclosure of comms rule, because it's so much hassle to deal with the millions of "waah, i hate your decision" mails they get off the back of it. Steam are funny though. They don't have a rule against disclosure, but the instantly delete any communications about bans and such so you simply can't annoy them with it. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4799
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 17:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ghost Phius wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:On the other hand, it could simply be because it's none of our business. Considering the things not allowed to be discussed affect the game of players beyond the communication, clearly some of what is in some emails to the devs from one person is our business mate. Anyway, as stated they are trying to avoid accountability...kind of reminds me of Richard Nixon's protestation, "When the President does it, that means it is not illegal" Yeah...we all know how that gem of logic worked out for him.... How would you know the issues affect the game of other players?
If it "is" something that affects your game, you'll know about it... presumably open a ticket... and be the one having a discussion with CCP.
Every MMO has a similar policy, to protect the interests of the company and the client in question. It's an industry standard that is in place for good reason, whether you happen to understand it or not. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
RAW23
375
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Posted - 2013.10.30 17:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Ghost Phius wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:On the other hand, it could simply be because it's none of our business. Considering the things not allowed to be discussed affect the game of players beyond the communication, clearly some of what is in some emails to the devs from one person is our business mate. Anyway, as stated they are trying to avoid accountability...kind of reminds me of Richard Nixon's protestation, "When the President does it, that means it is not illegal" Yeah...we all know how that gem of logic worked out for him.... How would you know the issues affect the game of other players? If it "is" something that affects your game, you'll know about it... presumably open a ticket... and be the one having a discussion with CCP. Every MMO has a similar policy, to protect the interests of the company and the client in question. It's an industry standard that is in place for good reason, whether you happen to understand it or not.
A 'good reason' may serve one persons interest at the expense of another, for whom it will be a 'bad reason'. The rules are there to make life easier for the powers that be by making it harder to flag up their errors. That's a good reason for the 'authoritarian state' and a bad reason for the players/peasants. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
Na Und
Galactronics
78
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 17:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Ghost Phius wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:On the other hand, it could simply be because it's none of our business. Considering the things not allowed to be discussed affect the game of players beyond the communication, clearly some of what is in some emails to the devs from one person is our business mate. Anyway, as stated they are trying to avoid accountability...kind of reminds me of Richard Nixon's protestation, "When the President does it, that means it is not illegal" Yeah...we all know how that gem of logic worked out for him.... How would you know the issues affect the game of other players? If it "is" something that affects your game, you'll know about it... presumably open a ticket... and be the one having a discussion with CCP. Every MMO has a similar policy, to protect the interests of the company and the client in question. It's an industry standard that is in place for good reason, whether you happen to understand it or not. A 'good reason' may serve one persons interest at the expense of another, for whom it will be a 'bad reason'. The rules are there to make life easier for the powers that be by making it harder to flag up their errors. That's a good reason for the 'authoritarian state' and a bad reason for the players/peasants.
Please identify the authoritarians who are forcing you to play this game. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4799
|
Posted - 2013.10.30 17:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
Na Und wrote:RAW23 wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Ghost Phius wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:On the other hand, it could simply be because it's none of our business. Considering the things not allowed to be discussed affect the game of players beyond the communication, clearly some of what is in some emails to the devs from one person is our business mate. Anyway, as stated they are trying to avoid accountability...kind of reminds me of Richard Nixon's protestation, "When the President does it, that means it is not illegal" Yeah...we all know how that gem of logic worked out for him.... How would you know the issues affect the game of other players? If it "is" something that affects your game, you'll know about it... presumably open a ticket... and be the one having a discussion with CCP. Every MMO has a similar policy, to protect the interests of the company and the client in question. It's an industry standard that is in place for good reason, whether you happen to understand it or not. A 'good reason' may serve one persons interest at the expense of another, for whom it will be a 'bad reason'. The rules are there to make life easier for the powers that be by making it harder to flag up their errors. That's a good reason for the 'authoritarian state' and a bad reason for the players/peasants. Please identify the authoritarians who are forcing you to play this game. Not to mention the fact that I don't think anyone wants the forum to degrade even further with every... single... ticket being discussed and cross examined by our resident internet lawyers... clogging the forums with absolute drivel and bold faced lies designed to get a ship reimbursed and other nonsense.
We have more than enough of that going on already. To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
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