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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.08 11:14:00 -
[1]
Why do they all have very similar hitpoints?
Titans are easily 50 times bigger than a mothership, or at least something close. But they have the same hitpoints. And motherships are much bigger than carriers, but still have the same hitpoints. Or at least close.
Shouldn't motherships, costing 15 billion, have at least 10 times the hitpoints of a dread?
And shouldn't titans, being a 75 billion investment that balloons to over 150 billion when you count the BPOs, take a bit more than 40 seconds of firing by a massive gankfleet to kill? Especially considering you can stop them from warping by bumping them IIRC like you can with freighters?
I really hope the stats on a titan are placeholders, because I don't want to be that alliance that builds one for 75 billion and ends up with it being ganked in half a minute -- Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
<3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron |
Roxanna Kell
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Posted - 2006.02.08 12:11:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 08/02/2006 12:13:21 Edited by: Roxanna Kell on 08/02/2006 12:12:28 being immune to EW, must have something to do with it i guese. and hey, those things needs to go down you know.
but they also have more cap and more slots, so they can TANK better.
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.08 12:12:00 -
[3]
dont make them tak better thats not what people are saying
make them have more HP thus a buffer before you pop.
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Twin blade
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Posted - 2006.02.08 12:12:00 -
[4]
Well motherships are just carrier's with a a bigger fighter bay and cargo bay so i can sort of see why there HP is close but titan's god know's.
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Asurix
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Posted - 2006.02.08 12:13:00 -
[5]
dude carriers have 25k armor, titans 70k, wtf are you talking about?
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Roxanna Kell
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Posted - 2006.02.08 12:14:00 -
[6]
^^he is right now that i checked.
hmm? WAKE UP DARK
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Diana Merris
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Posted - 2006.02.08 14:40:00 -
[7]
The little carriers that are as small as a battleship have 25k, the mother ships have ~50k and titans are ~65k.
Titans are 20 to 30 times the size of a mothership but only have 1/3rd more HP. I think the titan should probably have atleast 100k if not 250k. Titans are supposed to be huge but they're HP seem to mean they are made of cardboard and balsa wood.
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.08 14:42:00 -
[8]
i understand what you mean. they should have lots of HP but they cant be warp scrambled. thus the only way i can see beating one is
1; lag 2; ctd 3; pop him before he can warp out
1 and 2 are luck so dont count and 3 would be impossible with a 250k hp buffer.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Asurix dude carriers have 25k armor, titans 70k, wtf are you talking about?
And?
A Titan is vastly larger than a dreadnought or carrier and should have a lot more than 3x more armor than a carrier and 1.5x more than a dread.
Something that costs 75 billion shouldn't be able to be blown up in 30 seconds because the pilot lagged for a bit and was unable to warp out. -- Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
<3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron |
smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:05:00 -
[10]
Does warp scrambling and webbing count as ecm in this case then? I haven't checked this on test but surely invulnerability to ecm only covers stuff like dampners, ecm, tracking disruptors? What would the point be in a ship that can always warp?
sgb
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Asurix
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:05:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Asurix dude carriers have 25k armor, titans 70k, wtf are you talking about?
And?
A Titan is vastly larger than a dreadnought or carrier and should have a lot more than 3x more armor than a carrier and 1.5x more than a dread.
Something that costs 75 billion shouldn't be able to be blown up in 30 seconds because the pilot lagged for a bit and was unable to warp out.
A Titan isn't supposed to be an I-Win button like anything else in game. Use it with care and don't fly it into a stupid fleet battle! A titan sitting 10 jumps away with his gang bonusses alone is uber, let alone the doomsday weapon launched through a cyno field
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Asurix
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Asurix dude carriers have 25k armor, titans 70k, wtf are you talking about?
And?
A Titan is vastly larger than a dreadnought or carrier and should have a lot more than 3x more armor than a carrier and 1.5x more than a dread.
Something that costs 75 billion shouldn't be able to be blown up in 30 seconds because the pilot lagged for a bit and was unable to warp out.
A Titan isn't supposed to be an I-Win button like anything else in game. Use it with care and don't fly it into a stupid fleet battle! A titan sitting 10 jumps away with his gang bonusses alone is uber, let alone the doomsday weapon launched through a cyno field
Can you launch doomsday weapons through jump fields? Don't see why, you can't fire through stargates... And gang bonuses only work in the same grid as the gang, so these gang assist ships do really need to have tanking ability. And hitpoints.
sgb
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Asurix
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:10:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Asurix on 08/02/2006 19:11:33 they do have hitpoints don't they? they still have most hp of anything ingame!! so don't start ''they CAN't tank'' and YES, you can fire doomsday devices through a cyno field
other then that, put your titan at an SS in the same system if you want the gang bonus then, but this isn't an individual investment, this is an alliance ship, and people who get this ship know what they're doing. It's like the nukes, ''oh **** let's not invade them or they'll launch something that does 55k damage to everyone in a huge radius''
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:15:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Asurix Edited by: Asurix on 08/02/2006 19:11:33 they do have hitpoints don't they? they still have most hp of anything ingame!! so don't start ''they CAN't tank'' and YES, you can fire doomsday devices through a cyno field
other then that, put your titan at an SS in the same system if you want the gang bonus then, but this isn't an individual investment, this is an alliance ship, and people who get this ship know what they're doing. It's like the nukes, ''oh **** let's not invade them or they'll launch something that does 55k damage to everyone in a huge radius''
Interesting about firing weapons through a field. But afaik gang bonuses only apply when you are in the same GRID as your gang, ergo parking your titan at a ss is pointless on that side of things. i can see where you are coming from for the other 3 ship classes but i have to agree with the initial poster that titans, being so much larger than every other ship, should have more hitpoints. Providing, of course, they are not immune to warp scramblers.
sgb
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Krathe
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:16:00 -
[15]
Titans can ONLY fire the super weapon through a cyno field in the same system.
The pictures Wrangler didn't want you to see! |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:17:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 08/02/2006 19:17:12 I just see it being somewhat weird when something 20 kilometers long is as easy to kill as a dreadnought or something much smaller.
A titan should be killable, but not that easily. They are unlikely to be built until they are made at least a bit stronger than their much smaller counterparts.
Remember, to get the Titan in the system you have to activate a cyno field, which anyone can warp to. Its not like its invincible. -- Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
<3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron |
Sasha Anderson
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:18:00 -
[17]
They still should have more hitpoints.
A guy got 32k armor with a cruiser. Aint it aint costing 75 bil http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=283880&page=1#23
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Asurix
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:38:00 -
[18]
you have to be in same system for gang bonus i think, and other then that, a titan is not supposed to be in the middile of a friggin fleet battle anyway.
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:39:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Asurix you have to be in same system for gang bonus i think, and other then that, a titan is not supposed to be in the middile of a friggin fleet battle anyway.
Same grid mate. Pretty sure anyway, it got changed when command ships came in.
sgb
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Asurix
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:42:00 -
[20]
well i was in a hunting gang 2 days ago and i got a shield bonus while my gang-bonus-man was in another astroid belt
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Gronsak
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:43:00 -
[21]
meh. wish someone could clearly state for 100% if its grid or system.some swear its grid others swear its system lol
well when meh alt can use the ship ill let you know if its system or grid. til then at lest ill be in the fark about it
PROJECTILES ARE FINE FINE I TELL YA WTF DO U THINK IS WRONG WITH THEM? DONT GIVE ME THE BULL**** ABOUT DPS FOR YOUR HIGHEST GUN IS THE SAME AS FOR GUNS ONE LOWER |
Serin Nadiir
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:54:00 -
[22]
OK I know CCP isnt big on the whole "real physics" thing, but 3 times as big != 3 times as strong from an engineering standpoint. After a certain point structural integrity becomes harder and harder to keep up with size. Think about ants. Not only that, but much of the Titans' and Motherships' space is dedicated to specialized equipment which wouldn't help matters defensively.
Gameplay-wise I can't really tell you. Maybe they do need a boost. But size alone doesn't justify one, nor does cost neccessarily dictate effectiveness.
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Jezala
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Posted - 2006.02.08 19:54:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Asurix
A Titan isn't supposed to be an I-Win button like anything else in game. Use it with care and don't fly it into a stupid fleet battle! A titan sitting 10 jumps away with his gang bonusses alone is uber, let alone the doomsday weapon launched through a cyno field
I disagree with that. Titans are excellent focal points for fleet battles to be fought around. You'd think that a ship that size should have a fraction of the hit points that a small POS has. In my opinion, titans should have enough hit points such that it can survive a fleet battle raging around it and should only be destroyed after the escort fleet has been destroyed, allowing the attacking fleet to focus fire on the Titan for 10-15 mins.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.02.08 20:37:00 -
[24]
Originally by: smallgreenblur
Originally by: Asurix
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Asurix dude carriers have 25k armor, titans 70k, wtf are you talking about?
And?
A Titan is vastly larger than a dreadnought or carrier and should have a lot more than 3x more armor than a carrier and 1.5x more than a dread.
Something that costs 75 billion shouldn't be able to be blown up in 30 seconds because the pilot lagged for a bit and was unable to warp out.
A Titan isn't supposed to be an I-Win button like anything else in game. Use it with care and don't fly it into a stupid fleet battle! A titan sitting 10 jumps away with his gang bonusses alone is uber, let alone the doomsday weapon launched through a cyno field
Can you launch doomsday weapons through jump fields?
Yes, you can. Please read up on titans.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.02.08 20:40:00 -
[25]
Perhaps after CCP adds xlarge and capital shield extenders and armor plates, they can add special 'Station' extenders/plates that would be Titan-only, or take the majority of cpu/grid on other capital ships, and give like 50-100k shields/armor?
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I'm probably one of the biggest Bush fanboys in Eve... This is like, Darth Vader, can't-reach-climax-without-killing-a-puppy evil.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
ElCoCo
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Posted - 2006.02.08 20:58:00 -
[26]
Um a dread in siege mode has more firepower (if you forget tracking) and tanking capabilities than a titan. That alone looks odd heh
I think titans should be big badda omgwtfbbq'ers and by looking at their hp's.... duh, not realy.
Tbh I think their HP's should be at least two times what they are now...
And until further notice I believe they can be scrambled... the bumping thing is something different.
Some things begin not to be appealing to me... placing yourself in a safespot to provide gang/link bonuses etc is not my idea of fun... and it's bad to even assume(by CCP) that there should be alts just for that job. |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.02.08 20:58:00 -
[27]
The dread is expressly designed as a tanking monster. The primary intended application is taking down POS, which means a big-ass tank. Titans are not designed for this. They're not really even designed for front-line combat. Their main selling points IMO are the doomsday weapon and the rebirth and fleet maintenance abilities. This is a totally different kettle of fish to the dreadnaught.
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Asurix
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Posted - 2006.02.08 21:07:00 -
[28]
Titan's aren't meant to kill POS or tank a whole fleet. They're meant as a mobile station. This is a role it's good at, and what you guys are saying is you want another role for the titan.
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DigitalCommunist
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Posted - 2006.02.08 21:21:00 -
[29]
I'm pretty convinced Titan HP is a joke, and most of the people here commenting probably have no idea what kind of firepower is involved in an average sized fleet battle.
Lets do some math, shall we?
-Dual Capital Armor Reps on Avatar.. (not even sure if thats sustainable without officer mods but meh..) -9600 per rep, 19,200 for both. -30 second cycle time, reduced to 22.5 seconds with that hefty skill at V. -853.3 HP repaired per second -assuming 86% average resists with 64% hardeners and gang skills.. -complete tanking ability of 6095 raw hitpoints per second -assuming average of raw 750 dps per battleship..
That comes to a majestic number of EIGHT BATTLESHIPS required to break the tank on a Titan. By comparison, using the same math and values, a Revelation can take on THIRTY TWO BATTLESHIPS before its tank begins to fail.
And purely for my own amusement, assuming a force of 20 battleships, the Titan would go pop in thirty seconds under sustained fire. Thats 70billion isk for the bpo, weeks of hauling, months of training and construction, 50billion in minerals gone in thirty seconds.
I guess this is why CCP tried to distinguish them from Empire Titans, which had millions and millions of hitpoints.
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2006.02.08 21:31:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Asurix doomsday device is a fleet-vaporator, and there will only be very few titans in game and the firstone maybe in 3 months
Have you seen one in action?
You must be sleeping and/or looking at all the shiny lights to be caught dead in it |
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