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Galadriel Vasquez
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
168
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Posted - 2013.11.04 19:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Please fix the clickfest. I mean really I think its around 12 clicks per run - and if you start using decryptors and meta items then its more.
And some of them are so redundant - like the selecting an Invention Line - its already in the building isn't it! Some of them are totally stupid.
Surely it is quite a simple fix to implement.
Many Thanks
P.S - Necroing an old subject - win... |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
2204
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Posted - 2013.11.04 19:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/CSM8_%22Reasonable_Things%22_Results
30% #98: Allow 'batches' of jobs to be done. Instead of inventing 1 BPC at a time you can put batches of 20 BPC to invent so you don't need to babysit invention every hour. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
265
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Posted - 2013.11.04 20:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
i agree this needs to be fixed. If a gameplay niche is based on the gameplay experience itself being so terrible only few people have the patience to do it, then preserving that niche for those few people should not be an argument against improving the gameplay experience.
This is how I felt about the exploration changes, and its also how I feel about PI right now. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
1979
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Posted - 2013.11.04 20:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
There are ideas being bounced around with redesigning the UI.
One idea is setting up production lines, that keep processing, as long as you have materials. drag and drop to fill bits in.
Going to be interesting to see where it goes. |
Nolen Cadmar
Nexus Ore Technologies and Excavations Surely You're Joking
8
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Posted - 2013.11.04 20:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:There are ideas being bounced around with redesigning the UI.
One idea is setting up production lines, that keep processing, as long as you have materials. drag and drop to fill bits in.
Going to be interesting to see where it goes.
I agree with what's been said so far. Way to many clicks. What Steve mentioned would be great if it was ever implemented. |
Davion Falcon
Those Once Loyal
65
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Posted - 2013.11.04 21:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
Unfortunately, I doubt you're going to see any change to this wonderful S&I interface...at least, until a Dev sits down and tries to make a living off T2 invention/manufacturing. Then you'll see some changes being made.
I mean, it's not as if firing ones guns requires a right click for each gun (ungrouped of course), a lock and selection of the target, and number of rounds to fire (maximum of 10), before a check of ammo and final confirmation of your desire to open fire. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
682
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Posted - 2013.11.04 21:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'd be happy if the various dialogs would actually remember settings correctly.
Right click a BPO and choose Material Research and the drop downs, for whatever reason, have defaulted to 'current blueprint location' and public. Never mind that there isn't a public ME line in the current blueprint location, never mind that I haven't done ME research in a public lab for over a year, those are apparently useful defaults (not consistent ones though) |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
2205
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Posted - 2013.11.04 22:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:There are ideas being bounced around with redesigning the UI.
One idea is setting up production lines, that keep processing, as long as you have materials. drag and drop to fill bits in.
Going to be interesting to see where it goes. I was actually considering posting earlier that the reason we don't already have it is because of the people that didn't vote for Steve Ronuken. |
Gianath
Gallentian Legitimate Businessmen
111
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Posted - 2013.11.05 00:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Like everything in this game, profit seems to favor people that thrive on lengthy, tedious, repetitive activities. Look at PI, large scale alt mining, and especially the entire chain involved with creating tech 2 products.
More than a couple of hours per week of any of these activities makes me want to quit this game and start shooting things. For people happy to deal with the clickfests, I am happy to buy their products at a reasonable price. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1100
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Posted - 2013.11.05 01:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:I'd be happy if the various dialogs would actually remember settings correctly.
Right click a BPO and choose Material Research and the drop downs, for whatever reason, have defaulted to 'current blueprint location' and public. Never mind that there isn't a public ME line in the current blueprint location, never mind that I haven't done ME research in a public lab for over a year, those are apparently useful defaults (not consistent ones though) Suggested this in those "little things" threads about 50 times. They just don't care. I even berated a Dev to give me an answer, to which they replied...looks good, don't know if we can do it. Seriously? Can't do an if/then statement?
There are a billion little things they could do but they won't because we keep playing and building stuff. They have mentioned "end the clickfest" about oh...500 times on chats and such. I have yet to see anything come of it.
I have come to the conclusion that they just don't care anymore. Every time they post one of those, hey look at all these great things we fixed in the UI I laugh...sorry but most of that stuff seems like it took a few hours to fix. I have no idea what that "team" does all day. Play ping pong? |
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Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Northern Associates.
144
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Posted - 2013.11.05 02:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Zifrian wrote:Elena Thiesant wrote:I'd be happy if the various dialogs would actually remember settings correctly.
Right click a BPO and choose Material Research and the drop downs, for whatever reason, have defaulted to 'current blueprint location' and public. Never mind that there isn't a public ME line in the current blueprint location, never mind that I haven't done ME research in a public lab for over a year, those are apparently useful defaults (not consistent ones though) Suggested this in those "little things" threads about 50 times. They just don't care. I even berated a Dev to give me an answer, to which they replied...looks good, don't know if we can do it. Seriously? Can't do an if/then statement? There are a billion little things they could do but they won't because we keep playing and building stuff. They have mentioned "end the clickfest" about oh...500 times on chats and such. I have yet to see anything come of it. I have come to the conclusion that they just don't care anymore. Every time they post one of those, hey look at all these great things we fixed in the UI I laugh...sorry but most of that stuff seems like it took a few hours to fix. I have no idea what that "team" does all day. Play ping pong? They're probably playing Cookie Clicker, cause they like Clickfests |
BornToDieAnotherDay
Tarazed Technology
43
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Posted - 2013.11.05 03:37:00 -
[12] - Quote
Not saying I agree, but one point you should consider in a feature that makes invention (or PI/Manufacturing etc) less click intensive is the drastic increase in competition.
I go on and off inventing solely because of the number of clicks it takes (as pointed out), and I doubt I'm the only one. However, if it suddenly became 2 clicks to start an entire run of invention jobs, every man and his alt that quit due to the clickfest would be straight back in the market (at least I know I would).
Not saying it's a bad idea to implement, but if they did it would result in (in my opinion) the margins in invention and manufacturing decreasing significantly. |
Galadriel Vasquez
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
169
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Posted - 2013.11.05 08:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
I have stopped inventing - just because I can't be bothered to click over and over! It gets Tedious. I was doing Hour long invents about 6 six times a day on ten slots... it is enough to give you RSI !!!!
I have now set all my lines to fattening up BPO and selling those instead....
And yet despite all this I do sometimes get tempted to invent!! Then I go grab datacores and interfaces - check decryptor container, open BPC container , open meta item container, then throw it all on the floor and shout "SOD THIS" - still it keeps my slave cleaner in a job I suppose. |
Termy Rockling
EVE University Ivy League
89
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Posted - 2013.11.05 16:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
There needs to be some kind of compromise between this massive clickfest and the fully automated batch jobs. As people have said, too much automation will massively increase supply and prices will crash. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
276
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Posted - 2013.11.05 23:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Termy Rockling wrote:There needs to be some kind of compromise between this massive clickfest and the fully automated batch jobs. As people have said, too much automation will massively increase supply and prices will crash.
its very simple.
-allow routing from one storage site to multiple processors -allow routing from multiple processors to a single storage -allow installing of schematics in multiple processors at once
This would be entirely an interface change, eliminates 90% of clicking in setting up or adjusting PI networks, does not automate ANYTHING, and doesn't change the clicks needed if all you're doing is is moving an extractor. |
Uppsy Daisy
Perkone Caldari State
557
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Posted - 2013.11.06 10:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Batelle wrote:Termy Rockling wrote:There needs to be some kind of compromise between this massive clickfest and the fully automated batch jobs. As people have said, too much automation will massively increase supply and prices will crash. its very simple. -allow routing from one storage site to multiple processors -allow routing from multiple processors to a single storage -allow installing of schematics in multiple processors at once This would be entirely an interface change, eliminates 90% of clicking in setting up or adjusting PI networks, does not automate ANYTHING, and doesn't change the clicks needed if all you're doing is is moving an extractor.
I fail to see how a load of changes to PI would fix Invention.
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Galadriel Vasquez
Corp 54 Curatores Veritatis Alliance
169
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Posted - 2013.11.06 12:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Uppsy Daisy wrote:Batelle wrote:Termy Rockling wrote:There needs to be some kind of compromise between this massive clickfest and the fully automated batch jobs. As people have said, too much automation will massively increase supply and prices will crash. its very simple. -allow routing from one storage site to multiple processors -allow routing from multiple processors to a single storage -allow installing of schematics in multiple processors at once This would be entirely an interface change, eliminates 90% of clicking in setting up or adjusting PI networks, does not automate ANYTHING, and doesn't change the clicks needed if all you're doing is is moving an extractor. I fail to see how a load of changes to PI would fix Invention.
Nor I :) |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid
354
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Posted - 2013.11.06 12:34:00 -
[18] - Quote
End the clickfests CCP and have pity on my poor battered mouse not to mention my old, worn and RSI riddled hand. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
277
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Posted - 2013.11.06 18:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Uppsy Daisy wrote:Batelle wrote:Termy Rockling wrote:There needs to be some kind of compromise between this massive clickfest and the fully automated batch jobs. As people have said, too much automation will massively increase supply and prices will crash. its very simple. -allow routing from one storage site to multiple processors -allow routing from multiple processors to a single storage -allow installing of schematics in multiple processors at once This would be entirely an interface change, eliminates 90% of clicking in setting up or adjusting PI networks, does not automate ANYTHING, and doesn't change the clicks needed if all you're doing is is moving an extractor. I fail to see how a load of changes to PI would fix Invention.
Sorry confusing this with a different thread about the PI clickfest. Because they both need fixing. |
Brock Nelson
611
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Posted - 2013.11.07 21:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Hope CCP doesn't end the clickfest. If you make invention less click intensive, then it just invites more competition and that's just something I'd rather not happen. |
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Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
53
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Posted - 2013.11.07 22:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:There are ideas being bounced around with redesigning the UI.
One idea is setting up production lines, that keep processing, as long as you have materials. drag and drop to fill bits in.
Going to be interesting to see where it goes. I was actually considering posting earlier that the reason we don't already have it is because of the people that didn't vote for Steve Ronuken.
My votes went to Steve Ronuken this year. There is so much apathy and lack of organisation within the low & high sec communities that the null-sec, and to a lesser extent the wormhole dwellers, hold sway within the CSM. As a direct result bad decisions have and continue to be made which have wrecked the game and the economy.
"Remember remember the fifth of November. Gunpowder, treason, & plot." |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
53
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Posted - 2013.11.07 22:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
BornToDieAnotherDay wrote:Not saying I agree, but one point you should consider in a feature that makes invention (or PI/Manufacturing etc) less click intensive is the drastic increase in competition.
I go on and off inventing solely because of the number of clicks it takes (as pointed out), and I doubt I'm the only one. However, if it suddenly became 2 clicks to start an entire run of invention jobs, every man and his alt that quit due to the clickfest would be straight back in the market (at least I know I would).
Not saying it's a bad idea to implement, but if they did it would result in (in my opinion) the margins in invention and manufacturing decreasing significantly.
I agree a change of this sort would probably fall under the category of dumbing down of the game. More importantly it would indeed result in a drop in prices and profit ratios as more people jumped on the bandwagon. There are quite a lot of skills needed though so it wouldn't happen straight away. But it would happen.
A number of markets and prices have collapsed recently such as exploration loot, minerals, and mindlinks to name just three. It would not be wise to see this happen across the board. |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
295
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Posted - 2013.11.07 23:10:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:BornToDieAnotherDay wrote:Not saying I agree, but one point you should consider in a feature that makes invention (or PI/Manufacturing etc) less click intensive is the drastic increase in competition.
I go on and off inventing solely because of the number of clicks it takes (as pointed out), and I doubt I'm the only one. However, if it suddenly became 2 clicks to start an entire run of invention jobs, every man and his alt that quit due to the clickfest would be straight back in the market (at least I know I would).
Not saying it's a bad idea to implement, but if they did it would result in (in my opinion) the margins in invention and manufacturing decreasing significantly. I agree a change of this sort would probably fall under the category of dumbing down of the game. More importantly it would indeed result in a drop in prices and profit ratios as more people jumped on the bandwagon.
This is 100% wrong, and this notion stands directly in the way of improving gameplay.
Competition is not a bad thing. Even if it means profit margins go down. When you do invention jobs, you're typically doing many identical jobs. It should be no different than putting in a giant, high-run t1 job. How would you feel if ammo required the manufacturer to resubmit the job every 50,000 rounds? Margins would be higher, because the experience would be ****** and un-fun. Streamlining the job submission process takes NONE of the complexity out of invention. Decryptor costs, moongoo for components, t1 manufacturing and copying, meta module costs, all of that still exists. All of that still needs to be accounted for to turn a profit. It doesn't dumb down the game, it makes it smarter, because you spend more time figuring out whats profitable and optimizing your supply chain, and less time trecking back to your pos at strange hours to submit new invention jobs.
Do you want to be paid to click repeatedly, or do you want to be paid to think?
If profit margins go down because the gameplay is less terrible, then nothing of value will have been lost. T2 manufacturing should resemble a more complex version of t1 manufacturing. Right now it doesn't. |
Styth spiting
Ion Corp. NightSong Directorate
329
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 02:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Galadriel Vasquez wrote:Please fix the clickfest. I mean really I think its around 12 clicks per run - and if you start using decryptors and meta items then its more.
And some of them are so redundant - like the selecting an Invention Line - its already in the building isn't it! Some of them are totally stupid.
Surely it is quite a simple fix to implement.
Many Thanks
P.S - Necroing an old subject - win...
Right click BPC > click invention Tab Tab Tab Tab, Up and down keys to select lab, double click on slot. Tab, Enter Enter.
3 clicks.
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Styth spiting
Ion Corp. NightSong Directorate
329
|
Posted - 2013.11.08 02:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
Batelle wrote: This is 100% wrong, and this notion stands directly in the way of improving gameplay.
Competition is not a bad thing. Even if it means profit margins go down. When you do invention jobs, you're typically doing many identical jobs. It should be no different than putting in a giant, high-run t1 job. How would you feel if ammo required the manufacturer to resubmit the job every 50,000 rounds? Margins would be higher, because the experience would be ****** and un-fun. Streamlining the job submission process takes NONE of the complexity out of invention. Decryptor costs, moongoo for components, t1 manufacturing and copying, meta module costs, all of that still exists. All of that still needs to be accounted for to turn a profit. It doesn't dumb down the game, it makes it smarter, because you spend more time figuring out whats profitable and optimizing your supply chain, and less time trecking back to your pos at strange hours to submit new invention jobs.
Do you want to be paid to click repeatedly, or do you want to be paid to think?
If profit margins go down because the gameplay is less terrible, then nothing of value will have been lost. T2 manufacturing should resemble a more complex version of t1 manufacturing. Right now it doesn't.
You're very wrong. Margins wouldn't be lower, they would be unprofitable and T2 manufacturing would work the same was T1 manufacturing is now; based on the prices of materials going up then what you paid for them being the bulk of the profit you make (see basically every T1 ship as an example).
Perfect example is drones. They take 1 hour to invent, and lets say you have 10 lab slots. Average player will on average maybe do 2 or maybe 3 runs per day. At 30 attempts per day thats about 12 10 run BPC's per day. So if we say 100 players are making the same T2 drone we have an average of 120 BPC's per day (1,200 drone runs). Now lets look at if invention queuing and multi BPC manufacutring queuing existing. You now have 24 (hours) of invention attempts per day. Thats 240 BPC's with an average of 96 successful 10 run BPC's. From 100 players that is a total 960 10 run BPCs or a total of 9,600 drones made per day verses the current system, or roughly 800% increase in supply. Yes this would end well for all T2 manufacturers wouldn't it? |
BornToDieAnotherDay
Tarazed Technology
44
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Posted - 2013.11.08 04:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Batelle wrote: ...
This is 100% wrong, and this notion stands directly in the way of improving gameplay.
Competition is not a bad thing. Even if it means profit margins go down. When you do invention jobs, you're typically doing many identical jobs. It should be no different than putting in a giant, high-run t1 job. How would you feel if ammo required the manufacturer to resubmit the job every 50,000 rounds? Margins would be higher, because the experience would be ****** and un-fun. Streamlining the job submission process takes NONE of the complexity out of invention. Decryptor costs, moongoo for components, t1 manufacturing and copying, meta module costs, all of that still exists. All of that still needs to be accounted for to turn a profit. It doesn't dumb down the game, it makes it smarter, because you spend more time figuring out whats profitable and optimizing your supply chain, and less time trecking back to your pos at strange hours to submit new invention jobs.
Do you want to be paid to click repeatedly, or do you want to be paid to think?
If profit margins go down because the gameplay is less terrible, then nothing of value will have been lost. T2 manufacturing should resemble a more complex version of t1 manufacturing. Right now it doesn't.
Aside from contradicting yourself in your final statement, have you considered the actual profitability of those T1 jobs? As you say it's so incredibly easy to set up a large run and just leave it, and that directly corresponds to the low, crappy margins on ammo. Reducing the click fest will do the same to T2, and whilst the 'complexity'/skill requirements will keep the margin slightly higher, it will still crash the T2 market as you know it.
You mention being paid to think, however once you understand Invention and setup your lines correctly once, the thinking goes out of it. I'm not inventing currently but if I change my mind it would take me 2 minutes to get back into it and verify the margins are still there (and they will be, they almost always are on T2 invention).
You shouldn't view invention as your ticket to afk income - rather as something to actively put your time in to to generate the higher margins. If any sort of large scale automation was introduced, the margins on everything would spiral down to just above T1 levels, and it would be no different. People have the characters/money that the number of invention jobs being run would sky rocket. If the margins on ammo and T1 modules excite you then I guess you wouldn't have a problem with it. |
Lara Dantreb
Reisende des Schwarzschild Grenze
26
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Posted - 2013.11.08 10:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
Scripts for invention/production/copy jobs and so on would be a great UI improvement and welcome.
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Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1102
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Posted - 2013.11.10 02:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
CCP karkur, who does the UI updates from time to time said, in a reply to my asking about it, that fixing the UI is a 20% time project. So expecting anything out of that is going to be minor.
Maybe a major push will happen for industry changes. I dunno, if CSM has been pushing or not. |
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