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Solstice Project
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
4333
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Posted - 2013.11.05 21:06:00 -
[211] - Quote
This reminds me of something.
Thank you Goons, TEST and you other big entities, for helping defend our game from the people who ignore reality and only care for themselves.
You are many and your voices count a lot.
Without you, it'd be much harder not to have EvE turned into a boring carebear land which would die as soon as all these idiots left to kill the next game.
Thank you ! |
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
28
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Posted - 2013.11.05 21:08:00 -
[212] - Quote
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote: The solution here would be: don't be in defenseless ships. I for one, cannot figure out for the life of me why years old miners in years old specialized mining corps don't fit their exhumers properly (you know, with at least a basic tank) and don't have vast flocks of ECM drones out and/or have ECM boats/instalocking high DPS combat ships around.
The almost complete lack of ECM drones is what surprises me most, I think I'm not exagerating when I say that 99% of miners don't carry them while they may be one of the most effective ways to fumble a gank. Yes yes, when 10 catalysts jump your single exhumer those aren't going to save you but the thruth is that most barges/exhumers die to solo/dual gankers.
On top of that: a large portion of the gankers are at least as terrible as a large poriton of the miners, I see plenty of really poorly executed ganks (often failing) with crap fitted ships. Wrong damage types, using t1 instead of named mods, not bringing enough DPS. That means they either did not scan their target properly or that they did not run the numbers on how much DPS is needed properly or at all.
The bottom line being: it's really, really, really not that hard to stay alive in most cases. Just simply not being the easiest target goes an incredibly long way.
You can ***** about ppl attacking defenseless ships or you can do something about it, such is EVE and it has always been this way. It's a PVP game and if you're gonna completely ignore that simple fact, you're going to die more often. And not even that often, unless you repeatedly ignore gankers and keep flying your same **** fits AFK while local is full of flashy red's for hours....
Absolutely no reason to be in a defenseless ship. Even if the ship is properly fitted you also have to turn the modules on. I have a corp mate who lost a hulk because he didn't run the mods.
What you say about bad gankers is also very true. I have seen four catalysts sacrificed to kill a retriever and that was in a .6 system. I'm not sure how someone can claim to be a bad ass after that sort of showing. |
Meilandra Vanderganken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.11.05 21:10:00 -
[213] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
probably most of the time but i recall someone did the same with low sec and was dying of laughter at not getting killed.
it's just more likely these days because in my year or so of play I've never seen high sec so bad for this, it's like an epidemic of 5th generation copycats.
but who i am to judge, here i am skulking around in a C5 looking for a juicy loot pinata.
quality over quantity tho.
I've autopiloted 10-20 times into low sec on accident, at least half of the time in a blockade runner, in Caldari space, at prime time EUTZ, got killed once. Half of the times I simply made it to my end destination and found myself floating afk at the gate. With other players whizzing by, not caring or suspecting a trap I reckon. Unless you run across a deliberate gate camp (most likely on a high sec gate) chances are that you will be allright even in low sec. let alone high sec.
In all my years I did a lot of AP'ing in shuttles, a lot lot. Never got bothered. I did get several failed gank attempts on my empty or low value cargo blockade runner though. An untanked travel fit blockade runner.... |
Skeln Thargensen
Alpha Sperglords
266
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Posted - 2013.11.05 21:17:00 -
[214] - Quote
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:I've autopiloted 10-20 times into low sec on accident, at least half of the time in a blockade runner, in Caldari space, at prime time EUTZ, got killed once. Half of the times I simply made it to my end destination and found myself floating afk at the gate. With other players whizzing by, not caring or suspecting a trap I reckon. Unless you run across a deliberate gate camp (most likely on a high sec gate) chances are that you will be allright even in low sec. let alone high sec.
In all my years I did a lot of AP'ing in shuttles, a lot lot. Never got bothered. I did get several failed gank attempts on my empty or low value cargo blockade runner though. An untanked travel fit blockade runner....
haha, they fear the hot drop. what kind of psychotic flies a BR around uncloaked?
(probably the kind with 50 SB sitting on a blackops BS) |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
521
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 21:18:00 -
[215] - Quote
I agree. CCP, in order to reduce load on the server, can you get rid of the idiots that actually die in hisec? |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
4812
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 21:26:00 -
[216] - Quote
Skeln Thargensen wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:What on earth are you on about? No one's going to gank your frigate or shuttle unless you're carrying something worth stealing. oh it happens. i can't post the KM because of 'rules.' you can eve-kill me and find it though. most pitiful bounty payout ever lol. Excuse me for interjecting, but if you are ganked while flying a shuttle or frigate that has no value or valuable cargo... why would you care? |
baltec1
Bat Country
8437
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 21:29:00 -
[217] - Quote
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:baltec1 wrote:GreasyCarl Semah wrote:baltec1 wrote:EVE is the only MMO to do nothing but grow for a decade. This is like bragging about all the pennies you found over the last ten years. Big deal. The fact of the matter is that the game could multiply the playerbase with some simple grooming. But of course then the forums would fill up with crybabies talking about how the game is being dumbed down. As if the playerbase isn't already the domain of dimwits. SWG did that, it didn't go too well. SWG was basically a dog turd that someone had topped with whipped cream and a cherry and called a chocolate sundae. The changes just got you to the bottom much faster.
Its a fine example of what happens when you listen to the bears. |
baltec1
Bat Country
8437
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 21:30:00 -
[218] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:What on earth are you on about? No one's going to gank your frigate or shuttle unless you're carrying something worth stealing. oh it happens. i can't post the KM because of 'rules.' you can eve-kill me and find it though. most pitiful bounty payout ever lol. Excuse me for interjecting, but if you are ganked while flying a shuttle or frigate that has no value or valuable cargo... why would you care?
Nobody suicide ganks empty shuttles. |
Meilandra Vanderganken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 21:31:00 -
[219] - Quote
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
Absolutely no reason to be in a defenseless ship. Even if the ship is properly fitted you also have to turn the modules on. I have a corp mate who lost a hulk because he didn't run the mods.
What you say about bad gankers is also very true. I have seen four catalysts sacrificed to kill a retriever and that was in a .6 system. I'm not sure how someone can claim to be a bad ass after that sort of showing.
Not just the fittings, ECM man, ECM!!! Having a flight of ECM drones out while you're afk goes a long way to make any solo ganker think twice.
I recently saw 6 destroyers (3 trasher, 3 cata) fail a gank on a tanked Mackinaw in 0.5 It had an expensive faction mod fitted which they were after but they clearly had no idea what they were doing. It was properly tanked (cept for having a 0.5 billion mod) but not even max tanked.
What made it even more hilarious was that it apparently made the miner very smug. He was out the next day again and started mouthing off in local against another gank squad that got a warp in on his position with an alt and then left again (to reship/switch account to ganker I reckon). He was like: "Yeah, you don't scare me! Can't gank me!". 2 minutes later the killmails went up in local, ship and pod. :D
The loot fairy showed it's appreciation and dropped the module.
As for being a bad ass: I don't think ganking makes you a bad ass, I think there are very few things that make you a bad ass in EVE as lets face it: hardly anyone goes up against bad odds with something of significant value on the line. I do think that blubbering about ganking on forums and denying all the ways to avoid getting killed so easily makes ppl look like idiots though.... |
Meilandra Vanderganken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 21:38:00 -
[220] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:What on earth are you on about? No one's going to gank your frigate or shuttle unless you're carrying something worth stealing. oh it happens. i can't post the KM because of 'rules.' you can eve-kill me and find it though. most pitiful bounty payout ever lol. Excuse me for interjecting, but if you are ganked while flying a shuttle or frigate that has no value or valuable cargo... why would you care? Nobody suicide ganks empty shuttles. Dear baltec, for this I will let my first gank on this char be a shuttle, I'll try to make it an empty one but if it's one of those 10 plex autopiloting ones I might go for those.
Thank you for being an inspiration Goons!
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Johnny Marzetti
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1013
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 21:41:00 -
[221] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:Skeln Thargensen wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:What on earth are you on about? No one's going to gank your frigate or shuttle unless you're carrying something worth stealing. oh it happens. i can't post the KM because of 'rules.' you can eve-kill me and find it though. most pitiful bounty payout ever lol. Excuse me for interjecting, but if you are ganked while flying a shuttle or frigate that has no value or valuable cargo... why would you care? Nobody suicide ganks empty shuttles.
I saw an Apotheosis at a gate the other day and kicked myself for not having any guns.
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Tauranon
Weeesearch Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
311
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 21:54:00 -
[222] - Quote
Fey Ivory wrote:i wanted to make a thread about this, but i can as well reply to this, i think some should try read and actually understand what OP is saying... Highsec shouldent be idiot safe, thats not what OP is saying, the problem is the corsepondance of what doing crimes in highsec entails, if you do it, you get punished, and the punishment should allways be in such a way that it actually hurts, and not just for those that just have started playing the game, wich points us back to what OP is trying to say... there is no punishment in highsec, if you have the means to cover the looses, for suicide ganks, wich makes the whole idea with, you >should< get punished in highsec if you violate its rules, void Make a idiot proof system, and someone will invent a better idiot !
The only MMOs that last a player more than a year require item loss (general consumption, not just consumable potions) in order to keep the market functional. The only other way around that is for the developer to start the mudflation themepark treadmill.
ie ships have to die, no matter what sec they are in. We wouldn't have concord if the designers didn't want ganking, we'd have a straitjacket that prevented you firing. it appears the balancing point for the designers is no solo industrial ganking of T2 fitted ships for profit, ie the ganker has to do better than "no research and no cooperation" to profit.
Anyone sitting around for an hour for a failed gank, lost a considerable amount of isk in opportunity cost terms, not counting the shiploss. ie it is considerably more punishing than just losing the ship even when you succeed. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1367
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 22:06:00 -
[223] - Quote
"Verily, I have often laughed at the fools who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
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Skeln Thargensen
Alpha Sperglords
266
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 22:07:00 -
[224] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Excuse me for interjecting, but if you are ganked while flying a shuttle or frigate that has no value or valuable cargo... why would you care?
i don't but for the outrage that is players not observing the amoral pursuit of wealth in a randian wet dream sci fi dystopian universe. these 'lulz' are not a trade-able commodity AFAIK. |
Lugia3
Emerald Inc.
627
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 22:08:00 -
[225] - Quote
Mashie Saldana wrote:This is strange, I have never been ganked in highsec and my cargohold is most of the time worth it.
Watchlisting, sending out pings to nearby badpeople. Enjoy. |
Skeln Thargensen
Alpha Sperglords
266
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 22:09:00 -
[226] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Nobody suicide ganks empty shuttles.
www.minerbumping.com |
Clyde Belvar
Ambition..
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 22:27:00 -
[227] - Quote
People who defend ganking are A:those who profit from that. B:those who never getting ganked. C:CCP
So people A :Big alliance who needs sell those ships they make,so more ganks more isk for them.
People in B:Again smart old school indies in jf's who no need jump through gates to make living.
People C: Reason why ccp is not doing anything is simple,every time people loose large amount of isk they may buy plex,which is nice profit making on top of subscriptions.
Only people loosing in this are new players(o-1.5y).They don't have jf's to jump around,they can't afford loosing large amount of isk each day,so they buy plex or quit.
I understand eve does need isk sink for game to be working,but problem people are having is that ganking is way too easy,so its getting out of control.Make ganking harder make griefers pay for they actions,make holes in they pockets every time they gank someone. We no need better ehp ships,it won't help,its not about how you fit your ship,if gankers want to gank you they will do it no matter what you fly.
P.s For all fitting experts here,how you fit anti gank freighter? |
Meilandra Vanderganken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 22:37:00 -
[228] - Quote
Clyde Belvar wrote:
P.s For all fitting experts here,how you fit anti gank freighter?
Load up your freighter's cargo hold with repackaged HAC's from all 4 races between your 100+ million implants while you autopilot it from Jita to Rens. The HAC's have high racial resistances and will add enough extra EHP to your freighter to make it ungankable to anything but a fleet of several hundred battleships, which will lag out the system when they open fire so badly the gank will fail anyway.
It's not that hard really.... |
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1078
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 22:40:00 -
[229] - Quote
Carebear themepark tears, i love this. |
Clyde Belvar
Ambition..
1
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Posted - 2013.11.05 22:41:00 -
[230] - Quote
Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:Clyde Belvar wrote:
P.s For all fitting experts here,how you fit anti gank freighter?
Load up your freighter's cargo hold with repackaged HAC's from all 4 races between your 100+ million implants while you autopilot it from Jita to Rens. The HAC's have high racial resistances and will add enough extra EHP to your freighter to make it ungankable to anything but a fleet of several hundred battleships, which will lag out the system when they open fire so badly the gank will fail anyway. It's not that hard really....
Oh wow thanks will try this now :D
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Renegade Heart
The MIneral Munchers
16
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Posted - 2013.11.05 22:42:00 -
[231] - Quote
Clyde Belvar wrote:P.s For all fitting experts here,how you fit anti gank freighter?
You can reduce the chance of getting ganked by appearing to be a less juicy target than others around you. While not always true, it can help if it costs more to gank your freighter than the profit to be made from it. Esp. if others are totally disregarding this rule flying nearby you (ie a busy trade route, where most freighter ganks happen).
Also I have dabbled in suicide ganking but I am neither A, B, nor C in your definition. In fact the last suicide gank I did was a miner who was a corpmate of someone I just ganked in low sec, and I did it for lolz.
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Meilandra Vanderganken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.11.05 22:47:00 -
[232] - Quote
Clyde Belvar wrote:Meilandra Vanderganken wrote:Clyde Belvar wrote:
P.s For all fitting experts here,how you fit anti gank freighter?
Load up your freighter's cargo hold with repackaged HAC's from all 4 races between your 100+ million implants while you autopilot it from Jita to Rens. The HAC's have high racial resistances and will add enough extra EHP to your freighter to make it ungankable to anything but a fleet of several hundred battleships, which will lag out the system when they open fire so badly the gank will fail anyway. It's not that hard really.... Oh wow thanks will try this now :D Alternatively you could simply not put so much value into the thing that it would be profitable to gank. That would save you from 99.99% of al ganks.
Nah forget it, crazy idea, go with the first one indeed! |
Clyde Belvar
Ambition..
1
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 22:49:00 -
[233] - Quote
Renegade Heart wrote:Clyde Belvar wrote:P.s For all fitting experts here,how you fit anti gank freighter? You can reduce the chance of getting ganked by appearing to be a less juicy target than others around you. While not always true, it can help if it costs more to gank your freighter than the profit to be made from it. Esp. if others are totally disregarding this rule flying nearby you (ie a busy trade route, where most freighter ganks happen). Also I have dabbled in suicide ganking but I am neither A, B, nor C in your definition. In fact the last suicide gank I did was a miner who was a corpmate of someone I just ganked in low sec, and I did it for lolz.
Well last time my freighter was ganked it had 100 mil worth of stuff in it,so people are doing it for lolz sometimes,its just so easy to gank someone in this game thats why so many doing it.
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Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
1078
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 22:50:00 -
[234] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Digits Kho wrote:Sir, most ships in eve are lost due to mistakes / laziness / inattentiveness Sir... I'm not saying that isn't true... what I'm saying is: The market is changing, and gamers are changing... folks like Solstice may not really care about that, but the small and "cozy" playerbase CCP has gathered here will not be forever, and the way the game is right now, I don't see much new blood coming to fill the ranks. Also: The game HAS been going in a... "worrying" direction for the last couple of months... there is no denying that.
Going the sandbox mmo-rpg way is "worrying"? Nice to know what a themeparker thinks of EvE Online. |
Serptimis
Balls Deep Inc.
184
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Posted - 2013.11.05 22:51:00 -
[235] - Quote
How to start a threadnaught 101: Post in GD that Hi Sec is too dangerous. |
Skeln Thargensen
Alpha Sperglords
266
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Posted - 2013.11.05 22:53:00 -
[236] - Quote
well they probably think it;s a bit weird to stare at a nob shaped spaceship for 3 hours and then press F1.
Re: themeparkers. no accounting for taste though. |
Zheng'Yi Sao
DIRTY MONEY INC. The Mountain Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.11.05 23:13:00 -
[237] - Quote
IDK...
I've spent my first few months in hi-sec. I just fly paranoid. I always align when I mine, I am always at the keyboard when I mine. Being WarDec'd recently vastly improved my game play. Frankly, I get tired of other lazy miners not making the most of their cycles and surveyors. Time is money. Don't waste my time. I don't auto pilot either. The way I see it, if you are going to load up a big fat pig, hit auto pilot, and walk away, you deserve what you get. It is just proper economics to gank such targets as they come through.
When I first read about Minerbumping.com I thought a couple things. One, I suppose in some perverse way I saw their point. Second, I thought they were hypocrites offering a indulgence instead of just carrying on their crusade. It quickly occured to me this was just a method by which to extort 10m from fools who actually believed they would be honored. Just proper economics.
I just wish gankers would form a proper corporation. Join a union. Make yourselves a target. War reduces the themepark to low sec real quick; but they won't. It has nothing to do with having to face a thempark of angry carebears. They just aren't high enough caliber. They enjoy what they do because they enjoy the carebear tears. Hell, I am a carebear (?) and I enjoy the carebear tears. I in one moment hate them and in another love them. Trolls can't eat if they aren't fed, why do people never learn? Same reason they continue to autopilot through Hi-Sec I suppose. Hell, I might have to join in on frieghter ganking if idiots keep leaving so much ISK in the open...
I suppose I am saying thank you for making me a better pilot. I am also saying man up and make yourself a proper target. You will kill my 4m skillpoint (half industry) noob nine times out of ten, but eventually I will get you. But you aren't really about making the game a better place, or me a better pilot. Most of you are proper trolls, and that is that. Then again, this is why EVE is the whacky place that it is EVE.
So I say go to hell, and carry on... |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3552
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 23:15:00 -
[238] - Quote
Shalua Rui wrote:Clyde Belvar wrote:I wonder how many new players quit eve after they got ganked in noobie ships. Nah... it's acttually like: How many potential players never even start the game because of everything they read/hear about it... ...so, yea, either a) CCP completely breaks the game for gankers at some point, or b) lives with what they have got, and probably loose more players in the future. *shrugs* There are enough people in this game that are completely fine with the latter option, though.
Well what I think people are missing is that while most of the players know it's a game and what the game is all about, there's a "why bother" approach to it.
While gankers can be dealt with by flying smart, at a certain point it feels like babysitting. I used to get this feeling in other MMOs when they reached the point where the 12y/o kids all seemed to discover it at once. Even if you can beat them, avoid them, or ignore them, taking measures to do so becomes tedious. They are not really playing a game. This could a game of any genre at this point. Heck this could be Hello Kitty Online with pink guns even. But once you are taking measures "around" the intentions of people who are not playing towards the spirit and objectives of the game, but rather doing it for RL jollies (something possibly related to alpha-aspergers or being put on Ritalin too young perhaps?) of griefing or wrecking the game for someone else, that's when you are not playing the game either. You are playing "their" game and win lose or draw, they have managed to make it their game.
While I don't think new players get "griefed" out of the game as easily as some people think - new players have an excuse to lose and a lot less to lose - I do think that a lot of them hit a point where they feel like they are working a customer support desk or are reminded of someone they work with who "has nothing better to do but ruin things for everybody else" and so they don't sub or unsub and move on. I have noticed that women are more prone to arrive at these conclusions than men. This might be related to women having more likely ended up in jobs or being tasked as actual babysitters for brat kids, and so they can spot such behavior easily and are not inclined to actually pay money to put up with yet more brat kids.
One of the reasons to get new players OUT of highsec as soon as possible is to get they away from this lowest common denominator zone. While it's fun to poke at the large alliances they do have some recruitment considerations for new players and should be recognized for that. What I have observed otherwise is that people who linger in highsec too long will get tired of the BS and playing someone else's greif game but those who actually get with the adults will invest more time and energy in staying.
So, either the player base should ramp up helping noobs out of highsec (instead of ganking them as if a KB full of T1 and rookie ships and month-old pods mean something - they don't) or CCP should strongly consider an inner starter zone of which only noobs can inhabit and anyone older can only fly non-combatant vessels (so there can be a market) - or something like that. Perhaps even some mechanics whereby player ships cannot fire on each other. Before anybody goes alphatard on that idea, be advised that I'm referring to a total noob starter zone to keep them grief free so they actually play internet spaceships and not "I'm getting back at the world because I can't get laid Online".
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Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1101
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Posted - 2013.11.05 23:18:00 -
[239] - Quote
I love this thread.
EVE has areas of almost complete safety. They are called stations, and while in them you are only exposed to market PVP.
As soon as you choose to leave a station, you are sacrificing that safety for the chance to make more ISK. |
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
185
|
Posted - 2013.11.05 23:35:00 -
[240] - Quote
The point of the gank... isn't the gank.
The point of the bump.... isn't the bump.
The point of the Code... is player-control where many say there is none.
After over a year as an Agent of the New Order I know how the carebears react to the presence of the New Order. I won't speak for the freighter gankers but this is how the miners react.
Agent: Buy a permit. www.minerbumping.com
Miner 1: Random abuse, Caldari (Amarr, etc) is in charge here, you can't make me...
Agent: Bump.
Miner 1: Oh big man, I will just... (insert Miner Bingo square option here).
Knight: GANK!
Miner 1: Defenseless! Unfair! CCP FIX! NERF NERF NERF!
Agent: Buy a permit.
Miner 2: Random abuse, etc etc.
No one complains when the Goons control a giant swath of null. No one thinks its wrong when one huge alliance sweeps another out of their sov. BUT, have the New Order claim all systems with sec status between .5 and 1.0 and the petitions fly, the forum fills with threads like this and 2003 veterans like the OP reveal that some players never get beyond the carebear mentality.
The problem isn't the ganking. The problem is we say what they can and cannot do, and then we prove it. The OP, like so many before him/her has realized that even all his skill points, all his years of playing Eve and all his time playing the "real game" in Null doesn't protect him from someone who actually knows how to play Eve.
The feeling of powerlessness is what causes threads like this. We can't be stopped.
Bing Bangboom Agent of the New Order of Highsec Belligerent Undesirable |
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