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Reese Armgo
Solaris Project Border World Enterprises
12
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Posted - 2013.11.06 19:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
Well its not fun on its own. But you can do a little stuff on the side, the biggest advantage is that you dont have to pay much attention.
Its a Game after all, some people like to relax and still make some isk. |
Gealbhan
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
468
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Posted - 2013.11.06 19:15:00 -
[32] - Quote
EvE is not a PvE game, more at 11. |
Taal Khurin
Happy Asteroid Ltd
64
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Posted - 2013.11.06 19:23:00 -
[33] - Quote
The amount of different pve things you can do is quite vast imo.
I must admit i try and find new and exciting things to do all the time. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate Naquatech Syndicate
1250
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Posted - 2013.11.06 19:37:00 -
[34] - Quote
PvE is about erning ISK anyway |
Liam Li
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
73
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Posted - 2013.11.06 20:43:00 -
[35] - Quote
Farrell Jay wrote:Incursions and sleeper sites can be fun due to the increased risk/reward, similar thing with high level complexes. Though I agree doing L4s in highsec day in and day out must be mind numbing, it's a wonder why/how so many do it.
+1
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
People do L4's when they have limited gameplay time, which does not allow them to jump into something like incursions. For incursions, you need a minimum of a 2 hour block of time where you are at the keyboard and sharp. That includes the typical 30 minutes to migrate your ships from one incursion constellation to the next one. Even if you are in the active constellation, may communities have wait lists to get into fleets, or take time to form a fleet. And if you bail after just 30 minutes in a fleet, the FC will take a dim view of you in the long run.
So yeah, L4's are a necessity for many people. And there also the people that simply don't have the skills, ISK, or inclination for high end ship play with others.
It really doesn't take that much time to setup, yes 30 mins to travel but honestly it's worth it. For HQ fleets, most of the time it doesn't matter if you can stay for one site or 20, for VG fleets it might matter though. Let's say you run HQ incursions an hour a night on weekends, you get 90 million isk minimum plus 22500 Concord LP that you can exchange to any faction. That's 270 mil and 67500 LP a weekend. 4 of those weekends (a month) will net you 1 billion isk for just an hour worth of incursions plus travel and 90000 LP that you can exchange for implants or something . |
Evei Shard
Shard Industries
237
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Posted - 2013.11.06 20:56:00 -
[36] - Quote
The fact that eve-survival exists says just about everything regarding the "quality" of PvE in this game. Mission are so incredibly stale and static that they can be written down as simple set of instructions "shoot this group first, shoot that group last, this ship will spawn group B" etc.
If CCP wanted to "fix" PvE in Eve, they'd need to add a lot more random variety to it.
The problem with traversing from PvE to PvP is the same as going from 0.5 to 0.4. There is a stark difference between the two. PvE in Eve has the potential to move people towards PvP tactics, but falls light years short.
Take Worlds Collide as an example. When you warp into the first room, it's the same setup of ships every single time. You know how far they are, what their range is, whether or not they'll scram/web/neut/etc. That is so far from PvP it's a different game practically. Those ships need to have a random mixed-bag of range and weapon types. They need the chance that one of them will rep the one you are attacking, etc.
It would be nice to see the AI improved so that someone new to the game can get moving through the various levels of PvE mission and by the time they are doing level 3's they are actually somewhat prepared for PvP in regards to fitting their ship and determining the enemy's weaknesses.
Instead it's pretty much Lock-lock-lock-lock->f1->f1->f1-f1->get Noctis. |
Layla Firoue
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
5
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Posted - 2013.11.06 21:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Well PVE in EvE completely differs from pvp. NPC ships have puny dps for the most part some arbitrary rule set for e-war which is not even inline with how e-war works in pvp, damps and sensor booster for example, puny HP and the A.I of a toilet fly.
If PVE would be more like pvp with npc ships being fewer in numbers but with comparable HP, limited cap, comparable dps (not all level 5 eft dps though) and the same e-war mechanics, things would be a lot different.
You could use stats of player ships with level 1-2 skills for example with elite npc having level 3-4 and the occasional boss having level 5, all capable of using e-war and cap warfare but also being susceptible to the same just as player ships would.
I am pretty sure this has been already suggested some time in the past though, but I don-¦t understand what the problem would really be.
This would also help letting new players get a better understanding of pvp.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
2250
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Posted - 2013.11.06 22:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
Gealbhan wrote:EvE is not a PvE game, more at 11. Our 11 o'clock report comes from CCP Ytterbium:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:We often hear "EVE is a PvP game, PvE is secondary". To this we would like to respond that EVE is a sandbox and shouldnGÇÖt necessarily favor one side over the other. What you do with it is up to you: all player activities should feel as appealing and rewarding no matter which choice you take, as long as you are willing to live up with the consequences of your actions.
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Evei Shard
Shard Industries
237
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Posted - 2013.11.06 22:27:00 -
[39] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Gealbhan wrote:EvE is not a PvE game, more at 11. Our 11 o'clock report comes from CCP Ytterbium: CCP Ytterbium wrote:We often hear "EVE is a PvP game, PvE is secondary". To this we would like to respond that EVE is a sandbox and shouldnGÇÖt necessarily favor one side over the other. What you do with it is up to you: all player activities should feel as appealing and rewarding no matter which choice you take, as long as you are willing to live up with the consequences of your actions.
Stop clouding the issue with facts! |
AnUnskilled Pilot
State War Academy Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2013.11.06 22:37:00 -
[40] - Quote
What makes PvE fun is making it dynamic. Eve has the most static system for pve I've ever seen. All missions re essentially the same thing. All rat spawns are essentially the same thing. There no challenge. The only challenge could be considered other players but they are more of annoyance if you know how to scan.
There's also a big difference between players making things interesting while doing pve content. And the content itself actually being fun and interesting. You can have both btw. And people who say that getting harassed in your low sec mission is fun, are the harassers and not the missioners :) |
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Galen Darksmith
Sky Fighters
79
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Posted - 2013.11.06 22:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
Evei Shard wrote:The fact that eve-survival exists says just about everything regarding the "quality" of PvE in this game. Mission are so incredibly stale and static that they can be written down as simple set of instructions "shoot this group first, shoot that group last, this ship will spawn group B" etc.
So much better than the simple sets of instructions for doing raid bosses in other MMOs. 99% of which boils down to "don't stand in the fire." |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
614
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Posted - 2013.11.06 23:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Nope. Its pretty terrible. |
Lugia3
Emerald Inc.
630
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Posted - 2013.11.06 23:17:00 -
[43] - Quote
Welcome to a PvP game. |
Jasmine Assasin
State War Academy Caldari State
101
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Posted - 2013.11.06 23:46:00 -
[44] - Quote
Lugia3 wrote:Welcome to a PvP game.
We've already been over this, you are wrong.
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
531
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Posted - 2013.11.06 23:49:00 -
[45] - Quote
PvE in this game is not fun. Water is wet. The pope is catholic. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5102
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Posted - 2013.11.07 00:16:00 -
[46] - Quote
But harry forever threatened to explode me if I kept mining in his face |
Molenius Morrowinger
M - Intergalactics Inq.
7
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Posted - 2013.11.07 00:21:00 -
[47] - Quote
Am I the first person who say this:
OP, WoW is that way ====> |
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
793
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Posted - 2013.11.07 02:04:00 -
[48] - Quote
Two words...ghost sites! As if exploding cans was not enough, now you can lose your ship doing them!
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Thomas Hurt
Yan Jung Clique
175
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Posted - 2013.11.07 02:10:00 -
[49] - Quote
Molenius Morrowinger wrote:Am I the first person who say this:
OP, WoW is that way ====>
WoW isn't fun (and neither is EvE, a WoW clone) |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1377
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Posted - 2013.11.07 02:36:00 -
[50] - Quote
PvE in this game is not fun?
No kidding? |
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Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
614
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Posted - 2013.11.07 02:45:00 -
[51] - Quote
PvE is a massive part of all MMOs. Just dismissing this because you don't do it, don't like it or don't believe it should be part of EvE doesn't diminish this fact. There are loads of people that play EvE and never engage in PvP. These people don't have the time in their busy lives, they just want to be able to log into the game they enjoy, and play the aspects they like best. If this happens to be missions, mining, trading, or whatever that means they have no interest in leaving highsec, then there's no problem with that. EvE is a great game for exactly the reason that it caters to all playstyles. I completely agree that PvE in EvE is boring however, way more so than other MMOs. This missions are the same, and its just a repeating grind of bordom that you can only take so long. The anoms located in other areas of space, such as null and wh-space can be more interesting and tricky, but once you have them down they're just the same grind as the normal ones.
I definately think that PvE missions need some out-of-the-box thinking, they need to be more exciting. They need to have an interesting story behind them, something that can seem to matter. Perhaps they can send you on searches into distant null sec systems, or invite you to locate a specific wormhole? Maybe combat isn't the only thing waiting on the other end. I think Epic Arcs came the closest, and perhaps in the future CCP can improve upon them further to give the non-pvp players an even better experience. |
KnowUsByTheDead
Volition.
521
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Posted - 2013.11.07 03:18:00 -
[52] - Quote
Well...
In a game that highlights PvP...
I wouldn't expect the PVE to great...
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Matokin Lemant
5
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Posted - 2013.11.07 03:40:00 -
[53] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:EVE was never build to be a PVE game, it's an after thought. If you want a theme park ride then there are other games to consider.
GL.
While the above statement is true consider this....
I was a skirmish pvp guy I liked the small to medium sized fleets of 10-50 but it seems like more and more specially with the rise of the collations in nul sec the ways of the small fleets are going the way of the dinosaurs in favor of 1000+ man blobs, which just becomes to over whelming and boring.
So that begs the question of what your doing the rest of the time your waiting for the once in a blue moon mega blob fleets to happen, so the rest of the time you do what mine, rat (or some other obligatory form of pve) which by the way has not changed all that much. Or go out on a roam and hope that in the 2hrs spent (wasted) jumping about you get an encounter.
To much focus on PVP imo...and even that can get boring over time (as in my case) CCP needs to look at solo game play aspects a bit more. I mean Mining, ratting and missioning hell I can do that in my sleep
So even tho I am from a pvp background I support 100% what the OP is saying. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1119
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Posted - 2013.11.07 05:05:00 -
[54] - Quote
Make PVE entirely passive and have it be something you can threaten. That leaves you with an isk source, better quality of life and a conflict driver. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
4270
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Posted - 2013.11.07 05:12:00 -
[55] - Quote
Galen Darksmith wrote:Evei Shard wrote:The fact that eve-survival exists says just about everything regarding the "quality" of PvE in this game. Mission are so incredibly stale and static that they can be written down as simple set of instructions "shoot this group first, shoot that group last, this ship will spawn group B" etc.
So much better than the simple sets of instructions for doing raid bosses in other MMOs. 99% of which boils down to "don't stand in the fire."
- Use this spec
- Equip these items
- Stand here
- Hit that thing until it falls over
All MMO PvE boils down to this, because writing PvE which is challenging without being overpowering is hard. Random mobs? How do you ensure that a spawn of 12 cruisers is "balanced" compared to a spawn of four battleships? What if one spawn has a unified mix of damage output while the other spawn is focussed entirely on one damage type?
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1770
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Posted - 2013.11.07 05:14:00 -
[56] - Quote
suggestion: pve in eve is reduced to a red button in the middle of the screen. the button must be pressed once every thirty seconds. you get isk every twenty minutes. |
Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
330
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Posted - 2013.11.07 06:21:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Galen Darksmith wrote:Evei Shard wrote:The fact that eve-survival exists says just about everything regarding the "quality" of PvE in this game. Mission are so incredibly stale and static that they can be written down as simple set of instructions "shoot this group first, shoot that group last, this ship will spawn group B" etc.
So much better than the simple sets of instructions for doing raid bosses in other MMOs. 99% of which boils down to "don't stand in the fire."
- Use this spec
- Equip these items
- Stand here
- Hit that thing until it falls over
All MMO PvE boils down to this, because writing PvE which is challenging without being overpowering is hard. Random mobs? How do you ensure that a spawn of 12 cruisers is "balanced" compared to a spawn of four battleships? What if one spawn has a unified mix of damage output while the other spawn is focussed entirely on one damage type? TBH eve pve will never be very good because eve's gameplay is slow, and the bigger your ship gets the slower it becomes. Good pve tends to come from well written ai combined with giving the NPCs either stats similar to yours, or better, so that it's mostly your ability to dodge/weave around that keeps you alive. Eve just isn't fast-paced enough for that kind of stuff to work. The way fitting works is also a problem there, because in other games you don't usually have the option of just throwing everything you have at whatever you're fighting, between cooldowns, mana, range and other crap like that other games have the option of letting you walk out the door with 20 different tools to smack things, and in eve you will 90+% of the time, have a max of 2. |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
877
|
Posted - 2013.11.07 06:21:00 -
[58] - Quote
Bored Pve players of highsec sec!! Go, fly deep into low sec and do your missions in an enemy environment. Even better...go into player 0.0 and do some Ninja-ratting- problem solved.( and profit of course). |
Niclas Solo
TEMPLAR. Syrian Natural Gas Co.
3
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Posted - 2013.11.07 06:23:00 -
[59] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote:Thomas Hurt wrote:The PvE in this game is Not Fun. For most (normal) people, it is straight up chore to do any sort of ratting or missioning, and the only thing that makes it tolerable is bullshitting on voicechat with other people that are doing it with you. I humbly request that CCP do something to make the PvE in E.v.E. entertaining/engrossing/interesting and at least vaguely tolerable. In my experience everything can be fun or terrible alike depending on the dosage. I do not do a awful lot of PVE, but when I do, I do it in low sec. That way it is fun because of the constant need for awareness. Check d-scan, check local....the bigger the challenge the more fun the game grants you...
Add a plex or two in cargo and it get even more exciting :D |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
15367
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Posted - 2013.11.07 06:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
Well well well, this is definitely a train wreck of a thread.
First it started out as "PvE needs improvement" which then quickly turned into the old "It's PvP or nothing" bandwagon.
Seems that train just keeps on a rolling.
As for "PvE not being fun", that's strictly on you the user, not on CCP. If you find doing level 4 missions in your "Pimped" Battleship or Command Cruiser way too easy, then drop down in ship class. If that's not enough excitement for you, then go do those missions in low security space. Now if that's still not tough enough for you, then go do level 5 missions in a T1 Battlecruiser with no Logistics Support.
If you want fun PvE, that's up to you to make it happen. If you don't like the PvE content, then don't do it, plain and simple.
As for those who say this game is strictly PvP, pull your head out, open up your eyes and take a good look around. This game is filled with all kinds of PvE content.
Now about the Epic Arc's last mission being a grind, obviously the ones saying it can't be arsed to actually do a little bit of research, IE, figure out a way to blitz / complete it quickly. Here's a little hint, only the Boss NPC in the last mission needs to be destroyed to complete it.
DMC
EDIT : And for the record, there's a lot of people doing PvE in this game so the majority of those people surely must enjoy it.
I know I definitely enjoy it. |
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