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Aralyn Cormallen
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
102
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Posted - 2013.11.07 20:38:00 -
[61] - Quote
Farelle wrote:No communications from CCP, huge gate camps preset by 0.0 residents who apparently had prior warning to be waiting, what was the point?
To be fair to CCP, we didn't get any prior warning... of course, when your fleets came straight at where we are staged, we didn't need it! |
Renegade Heart
The MIneral Munchers
19
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Posted - 2013.11.07 20:40:00 -
[62] - Quote
Lord Xander wrote:Renegade Heart wrote:Dianila Artemisa wrote:Well, it's a sandbox after all. Too bad CCP didn't think of people who like breaking other people's sand castles, but oh well, it's fun watching the livestream. Then why did CCP offer pirates the chance to join in? Well that's because this event was intended for everyone to take part, not just high sec people. If you bothered to look, the news about where to start in null was announced hours before the event began SANDBOX! what do you not understand about that
explain oh wise goonie |
Aerieth
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2013.11.07 20:40:00 -
[63] - Quote
Lord Xander wrote:
SANDBOX! what do you not understand about that
The part where the all powerful omni-potent rulers of the sandbox let down a huge part of the players in that sandbox. |
MonkeyMagic Thiesant
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
3
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Posted - 2013.11.07 20:42:00 -
[64] - Quote
If you left Sarum when the target Ihal was announced, you have just reached Doril. Nice one CCP. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
443
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Posted - 2013.11.07 20:48:00 -
[65] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:To be fair to CCP, we didn't get any prior warning... of course, when your fleets came straight at where we are staged, we didn't need it! Yes, well - fool us once - shame on you (CCP). Fool us twice... not gonna happen (f**k you CCP). |
Lania Esperance
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2013.11.07 20:50:00 -
[66] - Quote
Yes... Really unprofessionnal from CCP this event
NO FUN AT ALL ... In fact, it was just a big nothing !! |
Aynen
Federal Guard and Recon Corporation
21
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Posted - 2013.11.07 20:55:00 -
[67] - Quote
I'm sure this event will make sense from a storytelling perspective, but from a game design perspective, it's very poorly constructed. The first thing you have to consider when designing these events is 'what is your target audience'. In this case, the people that showed up came from all walks of Eve-life, both null-sec veterans where involved as well as people who've never gone there before. Though live events have a legacy, a reputation, that draws in a lot of high-sec players. If you're designing a large scale null-sec event, and you 'inherit' this high-sec crowd from previous events, you're exposing players to a situation they're not equipped to handle and leading them to gameplay that would deter many from venturing into hull-sec again.
I don't mean to say that events can't take place in null-sec and still be fun, but you should be aware of the type of crowd you draw into your event and what gameplay best suits them. If you want to have an event that's a battle in null-sec against players who know what they're doing, then market the event that way, set expectations right and draw in the crowd that finds this to be fun.
If you want to get players to taste of null-sec through live events who have never ventured there before, design the event such that they have a good shot at having a good time. Having newer players solo or in small groups venturing into null-sec looking for hidden clues over a longer period of time, rather than a specific, predetermined time, is a good example of a type of null-sec event where a new player has a reasonable chance of success.
Live events aren't just a vehicle for the story of Eve, they're a game in and on themselves, and need to be designed that way. |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
218
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Posted - 2013.11.07 21:00:00 -
[68] - Quote
Yea I'm watching this disaster of an event. I'm actually quite disappointed (Doril? That was a developer troll, but you can't troll the community after you ask half of it to logon to experience a ingame "event".
Problems with the event, 1) You ran it through nullsec, aka bubblecamp central. You asked people to bring combat ships... not the smartest move.
2) The PC corporations (goons, razor, etc), were setup in advance (not saying they were warned, but they got plenty of time to setup a massive camp due to the staging system setup and the tidi, causing a hour+ trip for most people).These corporations care more about killing people, and you gave them a easy target.
3) There was no focal point, no person to follow. Events need a leader, a central person for people to gather around or focus on (seems there was a significant lack of it).
I would suggest you run your next events in this way.
1) PUT A FACE ON THESE EVENTS.... Create a person, a ship, something for people to follow. Text doesn't work anymore, this is not a "MUD" game.
2) Consider creating a method of getting people to destination systems, such as all of those in the "sarum" system at the beginning get a "special gate" to get to the location immediately, everybody else would have to conga line there. Basically give the early birds a way to see the event, thats why they are there in the first place. The gatecamps will continue, noobs will still get blown up, but at least the bulk of the people won't run into the general chaos and slaughter that just happened (was not well planned out)
3) Consider splitting events into 2 or 3 locations. You had the right ideas regarding staging systems, but I think you failed regarding destination. You can run 3 separate events simultaneously if you plan it well. If you need bodies, get your CSM guys involved in it, they'll more than jump at the chance to be a CCP pet running an event.
When you run events well, you gain subscribers..
When you run them like this..... all you do is alienate the general populous, **** people off, and cause people to rage quit with confusion, anger, and angst. Now I could care less about it being in lowsec/nullsec, but you gave the average person (which is those highsec carebears and everybody else who decided to jump into the event, maybe took some time off to do it to learn more about lore), and you basically slapped them in the face, stepped on there feet, and tricked them to bringing combat ships to be instantly killed by following YOUR DIRECTIONS. Should the camp have been there? Yes by all means yes. Should there have been a way for those people who setup early in the staging systems to get there? Yes.
This was not a well run event, as nobody knows what the hell happened. Caldari Prime event. Great setup, get anticipation, well sourced, immediate updates.
This one.. lord who the hell knows.
Here's how I would have ran it.
1) event starts at 18:50, lock the gates into Sarum prime at 18:40, do some storytelling, give a new signature in sarum prime, a hidden jumpgate, keep it alive for the event. The people in Sarum can use it, nobody else can as nobody else can get into sarum until the event is over. The gate takes them out to the system where the event is happening
2) The surrounding systems, they get a notice to head towards your target location for the event, they all have to burn.
3) Nullsec gate camps are setup, blaps everybody steaming towards there, fun is had.
4) The people who took the gate gets to the system, and the story continues, people have fun.
5), the destination system would consider temporarily raising its sec status to 0.5 for the sole reason of keeping the event sociable. That is a debatable concept but for the concept of being social, and getting the event done...... Yes its a sandbox, but for these "roleplaying/storytelling events", some basic decorum has to be implemented to at least just explain the actual event.
You have now served two parts of the community, while alienation none of it.
I'm not advocating for carebears, I'm advocating for CCP to not kick the larger parts of the community in the ass with events setup in this manner. They don't know any better, but you do. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
491
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Posted - 2013.11.07 21:04:00 -
[69] - Quote
I have to say I am disappointed by this event also. CCP did not allow for TiDi warps. Meaning most fleets did not even get to the systems for the fighting before the facility was blown.
The Empires as a result look like utter incompetents incapable of planning a drinking party in a brewery. Since they called for Capsuleer assistance then blasted off way ahead of any pace the capsuleers could make through the TiDi. And unsurprisingly died.
I just sincerely hope that there was no significant loot dropped at any point. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
449
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Posted - 2013.11.07 21:16:00 -
[70] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:I just sincerely hope that there was no significant loot dropped at any point. Just from the hundreds of wrecks offered up on the altar... |
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Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2013.11.07 21:17:00 -
[71] - Quote
It was a trap. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
492
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Posted - 2013.11.07 21:22:00 -
[72] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:I just sincerely hope that there was no significant loot dropped at any point. Just from the hundreds of wrecks offered up on the altar... From CCP wrecks to be clear. Player wrecks are all fine. |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
2788
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Posted - 2013.11.07 21:22:00 -
[73] - Quote
It was crap.
Between this and SOMER offering a billion ISK for people who buy GTCs through him I'm pretty well over it. I need an EvE break. |
Phoenix Jones
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
221
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Posted - 2013.11.07 21:25:00 -
[74] - Quote
I guess the thing that irks me is that recently I've been getting more into the Eve Lore, and I like events like these, they explain the story, and you get more into the game.
It was ingame events like these that caused people to take a sickday off of work just to experience and participate.
This was a horrible setup of an event......You learned nothing, nothing was explained, you trolled people, and fed them an essential lie.
Yes.. it was a trap. But to what end? |
naptin
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2013.11.07 21:38:00 -
[75] - Quote
We can take several conclusions from these "event":
1. CCP Product Managment must be fired imediatly and replaced by someone who understands where the money comes from!
2. CCP R&D must be also replaced. For a 10 year game, not to coupe with 400 ships traveling across a system (not fighting, just crossing it where 99% of the time the ships are in warp, which means they do not interact with nothing) and having a 10% TiDi it is unaceptable
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Devan Corvel
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
2
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Posted - 2013.11.07 22:13:00 -
[76] - Quote
I want to preface this post with the fact the I appreciate the live events team for all their efforts. It's a huge undertaking to engage a community the size of EVE and any effort in that area is appreciated. This latest even was rather ambitious for trying to engage opposing forces of players. That said, I feel there are a number of lessons that can be learned from the execution of today's event.
In my mind the overarching goals of a live event can be broken down as follows:
- Engage players
- Tell a story
Engagement breaks down into two parts: Getting players to participate, and leaving a positive impression of the events in people's minds so they want to participate in future, regardless of the outcome of the specific event.
Today's event was very successful in engaging a large number of players (oh gawd, the TiDi!). It also seemed to further the storyline of capsuleer alienation toward the major empires, reflected by the direction highlighted in the Origins trailer, and stated goals with the upcoming Rubicon expansion. However, the fun (unless you were one of the nullsec blocs camping the objectives and farming kills) was missing.
Overall I have to say this event was negatively perceived because large quantities of carebears and lore-friendly players were essentially pitted unprepared and unsupported against practiced and coordinated nullsec kill-farmers. Most of us arriving in the destination systems only to get locked down and podded the moment we decloaked in 8V-SJJ. Because of this, it left a very bad taste in the mouths of the players who participated on the side of the empires. In my mind that hurts both the perception of the live events and damages player engagement.
Here's how I would have done it to allow everyone to have fun, but still preserve that intent of the event:
- Give more notice (like a week) to allow people to get organized, change their schedules, etc.
- Once the event starts, spawn Empire/Concord NPCs at the rally point and gates along the high-sec route, periodically spamming local with the event details and destination
- One the main force arrives at the target system, spawn NPCs/devs to protect the main gate into the destination system, providing logistics/support for the empire-friendly capsuleers.
- Once the fighting reaches critical mass, the empire forces suddenly pull out, leaving the capsuleers to fend for themselves.
- Allow enough time in the event for the capsuleers to regroup/get organized with reinforcements. (there were a number of fleets inbound when the event was called)
By giving people more time to adjust their schedules and get organized for an event, it allows more people to participate and reduces the number of players who can't attend at the drop of a hat (the majority of EVE players are 30+ with jobs and lives).
Increasing the initial Empire involvement would have made the event feel more organic and involved. Providing support would have increased engagement, instead of just supplying the pirates an effortless stream of killmails. I don't feel engaged if I land on grid on the other side of a gate, only to be locked down and popped at the pirate's leisure having contributed nothing (but loot and a corpse). This will always happen to participants, but the vast majority of the pro-empire capsuleers just seemed to get slaughtered the same as me. Having the empire forces there to even the fight, then suddenly pull out and leave the capsuleers hanging would have added more depth to the storytelling.
Increasing the window of the event would have made it more dynamic. From watching streams after I bought it, there were several fleets of players inbound when the event was called off. This frustrated a lot of folks and eliminated any regrouping efforts.
I don't say these things because I want to be critical of the live events team. I say them because I want to see these events get better, draw more players to the game, and increase the engagement of the existing player base. What was attempted today was very ambitious and was a good idea. I'd like to see more events like this, but with variables tweaked to make it work better within the context of EVE and its player base on all sides of the high/low/null sec lines.
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Osani
Fallen Soldiers of Perseverance From Ashes.
1
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Posted - 2013.11.07 22:18:00 -
[77] - Quote
The Empires called for Capsuleer support and didn't even field anything themselves not a single empire navy deployed any forces to the assault they just left their capsuleer supporters hung out to freeze in space |
Rammix
TheMurk
105
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Posted - 2013.11.07 22:23:00 -
[78] - Quote
Phoenix Jones wrote:a hidden jumpgate A titan bridge. Empires can use titans in highsec. |
Luca Lure
Obertura
6
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Posted - 2013.11.07 23:33:00 -
[79] - Quote
Gogela wrote: Between SOMER offering a billion ISK for people who buy GTCs through him and this abortion of an event I'm pretty well over it. I need an EvE break.
March 2014. The mother of Eve returns. Elite by David Breben. Hope they have an Eve account and do learn from CCP mistakes, because I get the feeling that CCP doesn't. |
Evey Hammonnd
1
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Posted - 2013.11.08 00:03:00 -
[80] - Quote
< quitting eve, who wants my stuff? |
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Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2013.11.08 00:07:00 -
[81] - Quote
Osani wrote:The Empires called for Capsuleer support and didn't even field anything themselves not a single empire navy deployed any forces to the assault they just left their capsuleer supporters hung out to freeze in space
Next time the Empires call for help. There is going to be much less support from the Capsuleer. |
Space Scooterman
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
1
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Posted - 2013.11.08 00:08:00 -
[82] - Quote
At first I was upset that CCP once again chose to screw over every USTZ adult who has a job.
But now, boy am I happy I didn't take time out of my day to sit in tidi waiting to be wiped out by 700-man gate camps.
Fail CCP. Fail. Bad. Bad CCP. bad |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
457
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Posted - 2013.11.08 00:08:00 -
[83] - Quote
Elfi Wolfe wrote:Next time the Empires call for help. There is going to be much less support from the Capsuleer. Try zero. |
Toshiro Ozuwara
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
275
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Posted - 2013.11.08 00:09:00 -
[84] - Quote
Devan Corvel wrote:I want to preface this post with the fact the I appreciate the live events team for all their efforts. Why? All of the good content in the game is created by the players. All of these live events are flops.
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MonkeyMagic Thiesant
Shockwave Innovations Surely You're Joking
4
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Posted - 2013.11.08 00:10:00 -
[85] - Quote
Farelle wrote:No communications from CCP, huge gate camps preset by 0.0 residents who apparently had prior warning to be waiting, what was the point?
They didn't need prior warning, since they were already right on top of the destination:-) The nullsec formup was in Utopia, right next to the target system. The highsec formup was 20 jumps away (ie two hours in the tidi). Thus, the pirate side inevitably formed up into a huge bubble camp, which the CCP-directed fleet then suicided into.
The "event" itself in RMOC was only about 100-150 people (mainly darkside and the initiative), with the rest just looting.
We blopsed past the lowsecs/nulls, but even then the event was already over, it had taken so long to travel in the tidi. |
weasil421
Phoibe Enterprises
2
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Posted - 2013.11.08 01:33:00 -
[86] - Quote
I am curious if CCP is aware of how incredibly frustrated the vast majority of participants are in the fact they never actually got to participate in any form of event. This showed a complete lack of planning(or was it) in having almost 2000 players or more(just from the amarr region perspective) travelling 17/23 jumps under 10% tidi to face gatecamps and secondary rerouting to the main area which the"actual event" was over well before the vast majority of players had even had time to travel said jumps .
While most of these live events understandably face unforeseen circumstances mainly caused by player actions...CCP has had 10 years to know what the hell we are gonna do with it when given the opportunity.
If you are gonna hold these types of events in the future please ensure the people that show up can at least feel like they contributed something other than a giant conga line thru empire at ridiculously slow speeds.
I enjoyed the fast response from the resident yarr! and alliances that chose to face us and yes i lost a ship but was reshipped in less tha3 mins thx to slow warps during tidi allowing me to purchase an entire fit and have time for bio/smoke during a one sys warp.
The real fail lies solely in the hands of CCP right now....remember....WE are the game |
Kel Kun
The Body Of Christ
1
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Posted - 2013.11.08 03:27:00 -
[87] - Quote
It was a total fail from CCP, they should be ashamed not knowing how to play their own game, 2k fleet being wiped out by 500 men is purely a shame.
They left before the battleships had time to get to Ihal, I couldnt believe my own eyes when I saw that! How dumb it was to accept leaving without the whole. 10% tidi was so lame. |
Seline Andarin
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2013.11.08 11:34:00 -
[88] - Quote
Evey Hammonnd wrote:< quitting eve, who wants my stuff?
Because of this? Well, if you're planning to quit because of this, then what you should do is continue to play while breaking every rule in CCP's TOS. That way it will cost them money and you will have your revenge. Getting banned eventually shouldn't be a problem, since you were going to quit anyway. |
KaRa DaVuT
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
6
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Posted - 2013.11.08 12:05:00 -
[89] - Quote
weasil421 wrote:I am curious if CCP is aware of how incredibly frustrated the vast majority of participants are in the fact they never actually got to participate in any form of event. This showed a complete lack of planning(or was it) in having almost 2000 players or more(just from the amarr region perspective) travelling 17/23 jumps under 10% tidi to face gatecamps and secondary rerouting to the main area which the"actual event" was over well before the vast majority of players had even had time to travel said jumps .
While most of these live events understandably face unforeseen circumstances mainly caused by player actions...CCP has had 10 years to know what the hell we are gonna do with it when given the opportunity.
If you are gonna hold these types of events in the future please ensure the people that show up can at least feel like they contributed something other than a giant conga line thru empire at ridiculously slow speeds.
I enjoyed the fast response from the resident yarr! and alliances that chose to face us and yes i lost a ship but was reshipped in less tha3 mins thx to slow warps during tidi allowing me to purchase an entire fit and have time for bio/smoke during a one sys warp.
The real fail lies solely in the hands of CCP right now....remember....WE are the game
Yet again another post of a dreamer expecting to be delivered to the promised land of golds and lulz by CCP..
God wake up man.. Its like 10 years and they still not even have the ability to realized the reactions of their miscalculated actions..
How many proof you need before you stop dreaming? Somer thing, R20, Ishukone gifting etc etc... I mean I am really amazed to seet there are still people that expecting CCP to realize their faults..
Because they wont. This is a social experiment for them and one way or other they will fit you empire people in it and they will slipped away from it. They do it either by let you killed by nullsec people like throwing woods to the already started fire or any other way and they get slipped from that.. With the excuses like " we stop live events until we find a middlegroud" kind of crap.
I do like them for this game but really, expecting them to realize the mistakes they made is a bit naive...
So Trusting a CCP FC when he said "ahoy boys lets go null and kill serpentis safely for ze empire!" should be that kind of naiveness..
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Seline Andarin
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2013.11.08 12:21:00 -
[90] - Quote
KaRa DaVuT wrote:[quote=weasil421]
So Trusting a CCP FC when he said "ahoy boys lets go null and kill serpentis safely for ze empire!" should be that kind of naiveness..
Nullsec got its killmails, CCP will sell PLEX so lost ships can be replaced and Highsec got to learn an important lesson.
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