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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
kurage87
EVE University Ivy League
14
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 02:16:00 -
[1591] - Quote
Hi O wrote:lol @ DPS loss. Your killboard is nothing but APi verified PI industrials and afk mining barges.
Golly, maybe someday you'll solo one of those skillless kills and graduate to the big leagues. Everything you say I can't help but be enthralled by, looking at you is like looking into the void.
Oh, on topic. Buff to 2/3 man gangs, buff to blob. Nerf to solo and small gang. Death to PvE use. Me no likey. |
Hi O
Galactic Organization of Tariff and Trade.
4
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 02:23:00 -
[1592] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Hasikan Miallok wrote:The big plus of this change is you no longer need to consider rapid launchers when working on a fit. it simplifies missile builds a lot when you can just ignore rapid launchers as unviable right from the start. Yup, it simplifies me right out of missile boats. Shame. +1 to CCP for it's continued slight to those of us that prefer solo to gate camping, station camping, 3AM CTAs, and manic FCs. Keep up the awesome job. Why not just save yourself the trouble and end high sec as we know it, get rid of the wardec feature, and just let blobs rule? Would save you guys a whole LOT of time and effort.
You must have missed the stockholders meeting. Minutes can be found at the top of the page: http://eve.us.com |
Kenshi Hanshin
Karl XII's Dragoner Apocalypse Now.
102
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 03:33:00 -
[1593] - Quote
Harvey James wrote:I still think its the wrong approach..
just add new launchers with lower fittings and maybe add new missiles:-
light torp launcher - light torps lower fittings - lower expl rad/ higher exp velocity / higher missile velocity/range/ lower damage per volley
medium assault missile launcher - medium assault missiles lower fittings - lower expl rad/ higher exp velocity /higher missile velocity/range/ lower damage per volley
nerf range on current torps and rename them heavy torps
nerf range on current HAMS
this would solve what Rapids are trying to do but in a more balanced way and makes much more sense /less OP than rapids will/are now.
and DELETE rapids....
The quoted proposal above is one of the best proposals that I have seen in awhile... _____________________________________________________________________ CCP Rise, congratulations you have completely killed missile boats for me. HMLs aren't used except in large gangs. Where the number of the ships that are firing offsets the insanely poor damage-application.
RLMLs are only really useful against frig hulls. It can be used with decent affect on Industrials and Miners. But aren't really useful against cruisers with any decent tank.
RHMLs are taking those sad crappy HMs and just firing them faster. So what you have really done is make a launcher that will fire all my missiles quickly. Then I get stuck with a Ancillary-like reload time. Missiles are meant to have damage flexibility, strong anti-EW characteristics and optimized for alpha.
TBH, missile mechanics are needed to be fixed. They are ridiculously bad. If you want my breakdown of the problems with it refer to the Cruise Missile balance from the last expansion. But to summarize for any noobs, missiles have **** damage-application. I get better results on Cruiser, BC and BS levels from Sentries using technically the decades old clunky drone-mechanics.
This proposal gives me no incentive to put any further effort into missiles than I have prior to Retribution. Again, CCP Rise I am astounded by you and your teams lack of innovation, long-range thinking, or even understanding of cause-effect principle. If you are set on doing this Caldari need another rebalance on the T1-T2 and T3. That rebalance needs to happen before any more of whatever delusional-ridiculous stuff in your head.
Have a good night!
PS. I strongly request a full refund of all SP spent in missiles. Since they are well on their way to the trash-bin thanks to you CCP Rise. Oh and you can check, but I have not flown a Caldari ship in any serious role since Retribution. And the reason is your ideas. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
583
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 04:25:00 -
[1594] - Quote
Kenshi Hanshin wrote:CCP Rise, congratulations you have completely killed missile boats for me. Can I have your stuff? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1085
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 05:16:00 -
[1595] - Quote
I would rather enjoy it if CCP Rise were instead to be known as CCP 40Second.
Then again, I would rather enjoy it if missiles had been scheduled for an in-depth rebalance and RHMLs shelved until afterward. Looks like I'm not getting either of the things I want. |
Zvaarian the Red
Evil Leprechaun Brigade Space Wolves Alliance
50
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 05:20:00 -
[1596] - Quote
This thread is truly depressing. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
583
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 06:33:00 -
[1597] - Quote
Zvaarian the Red wrote:This thread is truly depressing. Only if you use RLMLs. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Kenshi Hanshin
Karl XII's Dragoner Apocalypse Now.
102
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 08:00:00 -
[1598] - Quote
*Correction*
After playing around with the RHMLs on Singularity some more. I have to agree that they show some promise/use. The clip size could be a bit larger, that would be nice you know, like 25 Missiles.
The most glaring issue with the RHMLs and RLMLs is that change to a 40-second reload time. That is really ridiculous and draconian. I understand and agree that these launchers should have a longer reload time. However, a 4x increase over the standard launchers is beyond absurd. Instead, this should be 2x or 3x the regular HML/LML AT MOST.
Reducing the reload time to 20 or 30 seconds will still be long enough prevent ridiculous missile spamming. Yet, at the same time it will prevent the launchers from being relegated to a back-room shelf. In other words, there would still be a reason to use the Rapid launchers. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
585
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 08:06:00 -
[1599] - Quote
Kenshi Hanshin wrote:*Correction*
After playing around with the RHMLs on Singularity some more. I have to agree that they show some promise/use. The clip size could be a bit larger, that would be nice you know, like 25 Missiles. Faction are probably 25, no? (I imagine Officer hold a few more) I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
67
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 10:20:00 -
[1600] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Niena Nuamzzar wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote: I must assume that by "If you know how" you mean if you have them at 20-30 km away from you and you're using scorch.
Because even with dual webs a zealot cannot track a close orbiting KESTREL, let alone a fast frig.
Are you sure? According to EFT you can do it in scram / web range using INM crystals (0.1 tracking) and somewhere between 9 and 10 km your applied damage should be about 80%. EFT aside, I remember doing it while testing things on numerous occasions but at the moment I cannot confirm EFT numbers with certainty. EDIT: If you overheat your web and with flying to negate transversal at 11 km (where INM optimal ends) you could be able to do near full damage to afterburner fitted Merlin. Sadly, I'm unable to repeat the same fighting simulation these days so I can't tell what correct numbers are. ... What? Negate transversal.. on a frigate.. while scrammed and webbed in a cruiser? 10 km? why would a frig stay at that range with you? what? wha? I'm out, I'm ooout. If you are scrammed and webbed with frigate in close orbit, then forget it. Not each and every frigate has a web or scram though, there are still certain circumstances in which you can apply at least 50% more damage comparing to HAM's. |
|
the jury
SPANK THE MONKEY
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 10:34:00 -
[1601] - Quote
I love the way eve players are trying to reason with ccp by giving them little ideas on how to maybe improve the RLML change. 1st off ccp don't care which I posted about a week ago . 2nd when was the last time ccp rise even posted on this thread or even looked at it .
so lets look at what's new
2 new SOE ships and 4 new mobile structures not to mention the new RHML and a new type of implant. everything else is a improvement on a mechanic which is already in game. does the bastion mod count as new or part of the ship rebalance |
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
67
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 10:49:00 -
[1602] - Quote
Andrea Keuvo wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Since these changes are "officially" in Rubicon 1.0, let's discuss what we can change for Rubicon 1.1. My proposal is to revise RLMLs by increasing ammunition capacity by approximately 100% and reducing reload time by 25%.
Rapid Light Missile Launchers GÇó Revise ammunition capacity from -77.5% to -50% (0.60 m3/40 rounds on RLML II) GÇó Decrease the reload time from 40 seconds to 30 seconds
Rapid Heavy Missile Launchers GÇó No changes I second this, and implement 10 second ammo switch I don't, because old RLML are GONE, replaced with this long reload swarm garbage! If we allow this ancillary idea to spread and to take root in people minds, they won't stop with killing only rapid light missiles. If we don't do anything now, when this disease comes to your weapon system (which you might think works perfectly fine) it will be to late because Rise will just ignore you, the same way he's ignoring us now. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1683
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 10:50:00 -
[1603] - Quote
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Niena Nuamzzar wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote: I must assume that by "If you know how" you mean if you have them at 20-30 km away from you and you're using scorch.
Because even with dual webs a zealot cannot track a close orbiting KESTREL, let alone a fast frig.
Are you sure? According to EFT you can do it in scram / web range using INM crystals (0.1 tracking) and somewhere between 9 and 10 km your applied damage should be about 80%. EFT aside, I remember doing it while testing things on numerous occasions but at the moment I cannot confirm EFT numbers with certainty. EDIT: If you overheat your web and with flying to negate transversal at 11 km (where INM optimal ends) you could be able to do near full damage to afterburner fitted Merlin. Sadly, I'm unable to repeat the same fighting simulation these days so I can't tell what correct numbers are. ... What? Negate transversal.. on a frigate.. while scrammed and webbed in a cruiser? 10 km? why would a frig stay at that range with you? what? wha? I'm out, I'm ooout. If you are scrammed and webbed with frigate in close orbit, then forget it. Not each and every frigate has a web or scram though, there are still certain circumstances in which you can apply at least 50% more damage comparing to HAM's.
Remember how i was comparing how the ships did in certain situations?
And i was saying how beams were better when not scrammed/webbed and missiles were better when you were?
... Yes that...
BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
426
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 10:59:00 -
[1604] - Quote
Niena Nuamzzar wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:Niena Nuamzzar wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote: I must assume that by "If you know how" you mean if you have them at 20-30 km away from you and you're using scorch.
Because even with dual webs a zealot cannot track a close orbiting KESTREL, let alone a fast frig.
Are you sure? According to EFT you can do it in scram / web range using INM crystals (0.1 tracking) and somewhere between 9 and 10 km your applied damage should be about 80%. EFT aside, I remember doing it while testing things on numerous occasions but at the moment I cannot confirm EFT numbers with certainty. EDIT: If you overheat your web and with flying to negate transversal at 11 km (where INM optimal ends) you could be able to do near full damage to afterburner fitted Merlin. Sadly, I'm unable to repeat the same fighting simulation these days so I can't tell what correct numbers are. ... What? Negate transversal.. on a frigate.. while scrammed and webbed in a cruiser? 10 km? why would a frig stay at that range with you? what? wha? I'm out, I'm ooout. If you are scrammed and webbed with frigate in close orbit, then forget it. Not each and every frigate has a web or scram though, there are still certain circumstances in which you can apply at least 50% more damage comparing to HAM's. A frigate at 10km do have a scram, and very often a web, and sometime an AB. Otherwise she isn't at 10km but more like 20km and TDing you to death. Notice that the TD can apply to scram range too, and do not expect them to be rare.
Or you can indeed consider that you are fighting a complete noob, but there's no point considering this and I doubt you are that stupid or dishonnest. |
Chigurh Friendo
Stay Frosty.
27
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 11:04:00 -
[1605] - Quote
Natalia Sidorovich wrote:This thread is absurd. I knew eve players were whiny, entitled and short sighted but I've never seen so much proof of it packed into one thread.
Split your guns people. Everything will be okay.
This is only really viable after the ammo switching issue has been resolved, and presently the current plan is to release a sweeping change in an incomplete, and therefore, poorly conceived state.
When all is said and done, RLMLs will have received a massive nerf... but the real shame is how this weapon system won't be even be usable, in a small gang playstyle, until the ammo switch goes live.
The fact of the matter is that the RLML change shouldn't be released prior to addressing the ammo switching issue. It's as simple as that... and it baffles me that those in charge of pushing this change through can't see that.
Is meeting artificial deadlines and internal release targets so important that CCP is willing to forgo their own integrity? This isn't just some nebulous issue of corporation morality... It reflects shoddy design work; it negatively impacts your relationship with your customers; and it damages your brand as a result. People at CCP work too hard on a too great multitude of excellent projects to have a negative light cast on these efforts through botched implementations and subsequently negatively anchored impressions. What's the point?
Take a step back and consider that this development work is being pursued with the goal of improving the game and user experience. Needlessly eliminating a playstyle in the midst of an arbitrary (not urgent or imperative) change detracts from that experience and, therefore, should serve as a contraindication for a premature release.
There. That's it. A release that is, owing to unresolved issues, incomplete should be postponed until an iteration that addresses those issues can be put forth. This is a proposal that is simple, straightforward and will ultimately be in the best interests of the players and CCP as a whole. |
Niena Nuamzzar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
67
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 11:16:00 -
[1606] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote: Remember how i was comparing how the ships did in certain situations?
And i was saying how beams were better when not scrammed/webbed and missiles were better when you were?
... Yes that...
Yes but still, heavy or heavy assault missiles are worse in most situations, especially when you have both - turrets and drones. EDIT: If they would at least give the same explosion velocity that heavy missiles had before nerf, I think HAM would be near usable. |
Solj RichPopolous
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
46
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 13:33:00 -
[1607] - Quote
The only way CCP will listen to what's said is if there is a mass unsub, like what happened when they tried to rebalance incursions. |
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
2
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 15:39:00 -
[1608] - Quote
Think long and hard Devs....You will be the only game in history that tried to "improve the gaming experience" by having a dps toon do nothing for 40 secs...think about it...are you really going to go there?
I have played countless games with Cool Down Abilities that are unusable when they are "recharging/reloading".
Never, ever, ever has any successful game had a dps toon rendered completely useless for 40 secs. Can't throw a punch, can't insta draw a back up pistol, no basic spell to cast, no escape or other defense available either...can't even throw a rock.
Completely. Useless. Toon. Taking. Enemy. Fire. For. Forty. Seconds.
And all you can do is be a fly webbed and scrammed waiting to die? This is your idea of fun? And it's my only option?
And you guys with this tiny, tiny game played by so few think you alone can successfully implement a 40 second CD on the only offensive weapon system an offensive player has and this is full of win? This will really bring in the subscribers? This is expansion worthy? "We'll show Battlefield 4 that their unrealistic game is SO not fun...huh, they do $600 Million the week it is released...."
Because people have choices you know. There is competition for my entertainment dollar.
It becomes more and more clear to me each day why your game is so small.
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Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
86
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 15:40:00 -
[1609] - Quote
I said I was done, but this is kinda like the hole in one of my teeth, just hafta stick a toothpick in there from time to time.
Patch notes have been live now for a bit over a day and the market is beginning to react. At current the average price paid for a caracal has declined 180k since the patch notes were announced, while not significant yet, the quantity of buy orders has declined to a point where a single freighter load would be enough to cause the buy order price to drop below 9m and two would drop it near 2m.
Rapid light missile launchers are staying relatively steady at near mineral value for their daily average excepting meta 3's where someone derped and paid way too much for a significant amount causing the numbers to skew for today. Meta 4 launchers are leveling out from their climb that began at the end of september. T2 launchers are on their cyclic upswing and should fall off in price again in approximately 1 week
For the most part light missile prices are declining as they have been for some time. Interestingly precision light missiles have near zero sales, this seems to be a side effect of them having range similar to rockets and unable to fly long enough or fast enough to catch their intended targets.
Price data taken on the Forge |
Hoodie Mafia
Boris Johnson's Love Children
7
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 16:13:00 -
[1610] - Quote
Great changes, adding dynamics to the game that forces players to react and adapt to their situation. Initial dps of these weapons will be high enough to kill incoming tackle and reload
The general public however, seems to want to just hit F1 and have to do nothing.
Shame |
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Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
86
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 16:20:00 -
[1611] - Quote
Hoodie Mafia wrote:Great changes, adding dynamics to the game that forces players to react and adapt to their situation. Initial dps of these weapons will be high enough to kill incoming tackle and reload
The general public however, seems to want to just hit F1 and have to do nothing.
Shame
Actually the biggest outcries are about how close to patch application this was announced, bieng pointedly informed that the opinions in this thread mean nothing to the party in control, and the inadequacy of other cruiser mounted missile weapons systems to perform against cruiser sized targets. |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch
587
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 16:49:00 -
[1612] - Quote
i wonder if rapid light missile launcher has enough ammo to kill even untanked cruiser before reload.
Seems that this is just one way to make caracal useless as solo ship.
edit: Also it makes autotargeting missiles non valid option because of changing ammo takes 40sec. |
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
86
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 16:57:00 -
[1613] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:i wonder if rapid light missile launcher has enough ammo to kill even untanked cruiser before reload.
Seems that this is just one way to make caracal useless as solo ship.
edit: Also it makes autotargeting missiles non valid option because of changing ammo takes 40sec.
Also removes pve usage for its intended L2 mission range due to prohibitive reload time, people won't want it on the basis that guns of any type don't have the same drawback and heavies/HAM's really aren't worth taking in since the bulk of targets are frigate sized. |
Benedictus de Suede
Norsewing Naval Command
2
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 17:03:00 -
[1614] - Quote
23 charges with a reload time of 40 sec feels like a really bad idea. I fear this system will be as useful as defender missiles...
Suggest the following solution to the problem:
1 Torpedo Luncher - The choice for short range, big targets and highest damage - Range 30-40km - Dps around +1400 2 Rapid Heavy Missile Launcher - The choice for mid range "all tagets" should be the standard fitting for a raven, why not? - Range 60-70 km DPS around 1000 3 Cruise launcher - The chice for sniper duty on big and medium sized targets - Max range beyond 130km. DPS around 1000
With this in mind. There will always be situations where you prefere on system over ther other. None will be outdated.
You shouldn-¦t be so afraid to give the missile ships some fair chance in a pvp situations. Most pvp-ers consider them inferior to gun boats.
Question: How often do you se a killmail with Ravens i.e if they aren-¦t the victim of course.
Solution 1: 23 Charges with normal reload time! Increase the Ravens Target range beyond 120 km and make them good sniper ships...and an interesting choice for pvp.
Solution 2: Here-¦s an even better solution for u dump the reload time for all weapons!!! Crew normaly reload guns during the time between the salvos, don-¦t they?
Btw projectiles do also need time to hit thier targets not just missiles. However over short distances they will hit faster due to an instant acceleration, but over longer distances the missiles would be faster. Explosion velocity is a joke in my opinion. Fertilizer have an explosion velocity around 4 400 m/s..enough said...
Now give the caldarians som love plz.... |
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
2
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 17:09:00 -
[1615] - Quote
Hoodie Mafia wrote:Great changes, adding dynamics to the game that forces players to react and adapt to their situation. Initial dps of these weapons will be high enough to kill incoming tackle and reload
The general public however, seems to want to just hit F1 and have to do nothing.
Shame What is "dynamic" about waiting 40 seconds to reload?
Try it. All you have to do is take your Caracal out (lol if you even have one) and get in some fights. Fire 25 rounds, then hit reload. Four times. Let us know your leet strat for the survival...of your pod.
It's Dyno-Mite!
For your Caracal. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
773
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 17:09:00 -
[1616] - Quote
Bad Messenger wrote:i wonder if rapid light missile launcher has enough ammo to kill even untanked cruiser before reload.
Seems that this is just one way to make caracal useless as solo ship.
edit: Also it makes autotargeting missiles non valid option because of changing ammo takes 40sec.
No it cannot ,m cannot even kil a shield tanked rupture. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
3
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 17:37:00 -
[1617] - Quote
You want to make for more interesting and dynamic game play?
Put an old RLML Caracal on the same field as the new EAFs. Problem likely solved already.
Or give combat frigs a new module that dumps "chaff" that light missiles/tracking modules lock onto instead of the actual ship giving them a "dynamic" defense to soak up a couple of volleys (duration based, ie for 10 secs). They can use one of their many useless high utility slots for it like the one for their launcher for unbonused roflkets.
This way the Caracal pilot is *doing something* (ie dynamic) and the Frig pilot is *doing something* to defend against missiles. It's a nerf to RLML, but not by letting the RLML pilot do....nothing.
The real world of defensive measures for Fighters is rich with Chaff/Flares/Defender style missiles/stealth (that reduces electronic sig) that would nerf Caracals/Cerbs without a single change and would not ruin the ships for Caldari newbie PvE and give Frigs increased survival ability against missile boats or dessies with massive tracking bonuses.
Just make frigs have to give up something offensive (ie dps) to gain these new defensive countermeasures (ie lose a high).
Then a Caracal could be buffed to actually be able to fight ships in it's class as well as frigs. |
Hoodie Mafia
Boris Johnson's Love Children
7
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 19:13:00 -
[1618] - Quote
CCP Rise went with the correct decision of ingnoring 95% of this thread and make the game a bit more challanging |
Ax Pym
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 19:31:00 -
[1619] - Quote
Rise, appears i'm chiming in late on this for one reason or another. well, the rapid heavy is sad news in this house. my BC fitting is if not wrecked, in a lot of trouble. but more heavy heartedly do I reflect on this disaster, the fate of the Skiff. The Skiff is very fast, w. ample mid slots. the field of mining is tottering. And, logis are easily waylayed by this new terror. hope you read it. |
Signal11th
DARKNESS.
1126
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 20:27:00 -
[1620] - Quote
Jesus yet a another load of modules I won;t be going near. Do CCP pay bonuses for the DEV who comes up with the most ****** up ideas? If so count me in I talk complete shite most of the time and if I can get paid for it I'm there..
Jesus who in his right mind is going to fit a module that you can't use for 50% of the time????? Powered by-áreaTh-áFilter V1.23 "All posts by this pilot are personal held views and not representitive of-áany-ácorp or alliance I am currently a member of. Like I'd give a-ásh*t anyway. God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster. |
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