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RomeStar
Empire Investments Logistics
338
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Posted - 2013.11.08 18:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you were an investor and decided to finance a new never before seen concept of a game by a company who produced a one of a kind space mmorpg wouldnt you be alittle upset at the results of Dust 514?
Would you invest more capital if they came back and said we need a couple of more years because hey look at EVE it took a few years to get that game off the ground and working properly?
Who are these investors that financed Dust because I want to hang around them more since they are just throwing their money away on anything that catches their eye?
For those of you that say "Its none of your business what CCP does with their money" I say to you "yes thats true but as eve players we would like to see EVE grow and not be burdened by a turd that wont flush.
To those investors who dont read the EVEO Dust forums anyways thanks for financing the new EA's guys new homes and cars they really needed it.
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Ugh Reset
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.11.09 00:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
RomeStar wrote:If you were an investor and decided to finance a new never before seen concept of a game by a company who produced a one of a kind space mmorpg wouldnt you be alittle upset at the results of Dust 514?
Would you invest more capital if they came back and said we need a couple of more years because hey look at EVE it took a few years to get that game off the ground and working properly?
Who are these investors that financed Dust because I want to hang around them more since they are just throwing their money away on anything that catches their eye?
For those of you that say "Its none of your business what CCP does with their money" I say to you "yes thats true but as eve players we would like to see EVE grow and not be burdened by a turd that wont flush.
To those investors who dont read the EVEO Dust forums anyways thanks for financing the new EA's guys new homes and cars they really needed it.
agreed, I can't believe no new content is coming out this this year since they bet the farm on Dust.
who are these investors? that would be Sony and anyone having enough fun on dust who chooses to buy AUR. |
eatsbabies cienfuegos
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
10
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Posted - 2013.11.09 16:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
op seems kind of stupid. and jagoffish. |
Tricus
Perkone Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2013.11.09 21:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
My god how the comments on dust mirror the eve forums when the game first started is uncanny. Is everyone a doomsayer till 10 years? |
eatsbabies cienfuegos
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
10
|
Posted - 2013.11.10 03:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tricus wrote:My god how the comments on dust mirror the eve forums when the game first started is uncanny. Is everyone a doomsayer till 10 years?
yes. people are stupid.
in fairness, every console forum is exactly like that one. but so is every pc forum too... |
Dextrome Thorphan
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
15
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Posted - 2013.11.27 10:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
eatsbabies cienfuegos wrote:op seems kind of stupid. and jagoffish.
hmm but so do you by saying that ....
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Gerald Sphinx
The Scope Gallente Federation
20
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Posted - 2013.11.29 23:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Tricus wrote:My god how the comments on dust mirror the eve forums when the game first started is uncanny. Is everyone a doomsayer till 10 years?
Pretty much. |
Gerald Sphinx
The Scope Gallente Federation
20
|
Posted - 2013.11.30 00:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
The thing here is that CCP is doing something that no other company has ever done before with a FPS game. Merge it with a 10-year-old MMO and connect it to an economy that is so complex that CCP needs a economist to make it balanced, while allowing all kinds of skullduggery and asshattery in the game.
There is also the fact that CCP never had any experience with FPS games in the past and Dust is their first attempt. Therefore, the investor already knew what risks they were taking as soon as gave their money to the privately-owned company who never had any MMO experience prior to Eve Online ten years ago.
There is also the culture clash that now exists in Dust 514. You have the casual players like those here in Eve interacting with hardcore FPS players from MAG, CoD, BF, Halo, etc. There is bound to be tension between the two. |
Cross C Ragweed
Uinta Logistics
4
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 21:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Who's to say it's a bust? Current average of 4k players. I'd suggest a fair percentage of those have purchased the various elite, merc, etc. packs. Most are constantly running activate and passive boosters (AUR) and run aur proto gear.
i.e. the "micro transactions" just might be much more profitable than you are giving any credit for.
Also the idea that over 1 million pre-sells (US only) of the PS4, with the ones not making the pre-order out several months before they can hope for a box, along with the long-slow (and religiously painful) decline of PC supported games, tells a tell, that current gaming bucks are in the consoles.
If I was an investor in CCP and they did not have some long term plan to deal with the gamer move to consoles ... then I'd really be concerned.
The more they can immerse Dust with Eve, will also bring those console players (i.e. just like me) from Dust to Eve.
win win
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SGTheron Shal'Tek
Blood Mist and Bonechips B O R G
2
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Posted - 2013.12.03 12:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Gerald Sphinx wrote:The thing here is that CCP is doing something that no other company has ever done before with a FPS game. Merge it with a 10-year-old MMO and connect it to an economy that is so complex that CCP needs a economist to make it balanced, while allowing all kinds of skullduggery and asshattery in the game.
Honestly, the merge and economy between the two is nothing. There is very little to no connection. Sure you can do 'orbital strikes' and sure the suits and infantry gear is on the Eve market... But does that really do anything? The idea and concept behind Dust is amazing. But the development and execution has failed. The link between the two is hardly there. Dust is an FPS that will slowly fall behind if it's trend continues. With new consoles, exciting new FPS games, Dust is barely holding on. Fortunately CCP made Dust free, so that's giving it a fighting chance. It's only a matter of time until there is a small percentage of Dust players left, because everyone else will move on. |
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Gerald Sphinx
The Scope Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2013.12.03 14:42:00 -
[11] - Quote
SGTheron Shal'Tek wrote:Gerald Sphinx wrote:The thing here is that CCP is doing something that no other company has ever done before with a FPS game. Merge it with a 10-year-old MMO and connect it to an economy that is so complex that CCP needs a economist to make it balanced, while allowing all kinds of skullduggery and asshattery in the game. Honestly, the merge and economy between the two is nothing. There is very little to no connection. Sure you can do 'orbital strikes' and sure the suits and infantry gear is on the Eve market... But does that really do anything? The idea and concept behind Dust is amazing. But the development and execution has failed. The link between the two is hardly there. Dust is an FPS that will slowly fall behind if it's trend continues. With new consoles, exciting new FPS games, Dust is barely holding on. Fortunately CCP made Dust free, so that's giving it a fighting chance. It's only a matter of time until there is a small percentage of Dust players left, because everyone else will move on.
But it still has a chance to recover. Besides, it's not like CCP were already experts with FPS development. They have no prior experience with FPS games. |
Dextrome Thorphan
RvB - RED Federation
27
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 08:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gerald Sphinx wrote:SGTheron Shal'Tek wrote:Gerald Sphinx wrote:The thing here is that CCP is doing something that no other company has ever done before with a FPS game. Merge it with a 10-year-old MMO and connect it to an economy that is so complex that CCP needs a economist to make it balanced, while allowing all kinds of skullduggery and asshattery in the game. Honestly, the merge and economy between the two is nothing. There is very little to no connection. Sure you can do 'orbital strikes' and sure the suits and infantry gear is on the Eve market... But does that really do anything? The idea and concept behind Dust is amazing. But the development and execution has failed. The link between the two is hardly there. Dust is an FPS that will slowly fall behind if it's trend continues. With new consoles, exciting new FPS games, Dust is barely holding on. Fortunately CCP made Dust free, so that's giving it a fighting chance. It's only a matter of time until there is a small percentage of Dust players left, because everyone else will move on. But it still has a chance to recover. Besides, it's not like CCP were already experts with FPS development. They have no prior experience with FPS games.
It's not the FPS part of the game that failed though... the first person shooting part has been implemented. It's everything else that's lacking/missing. |
Souxie Alduin
Anarchy in the Eve
93
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 16:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Gerald Sphinx wrote:SGTheron Shal'Tek wrote:Gerald Sphinx wrote:The thing here is that CCP is doing something that no other company has ever done before with a FPS game. Merge it with a 10-year-old MMO and connect it to an economy that is so complex that CCP needs a economist to make it balanced, while allowing all kinds of skullduggery and asshattery in the game. Honestly, the merge and economy between the two is nothing. There is very little to no connection. Sure you can do 'orbital strikes' and sure the suits and infantry gear is on the Eve market... But does that really do anything? The idea and concept behind Dust is amazing. But the development and execution has failed. The link between the two is hardly there. Dust is an FPS that will slowly fall behind if it's trend continues. With new consoles, exciting new FPS games, Dust is barely holding on. Fortunately CCP made Dust free, so that's giving it a fighting chance. It's only a matter of time until there is a small percentage of Dust players left, because everyone else will move on. But it still has a chance to recover. Besides, it's not like CCP were already experts with FPS development. They have no prior experience with FPS games.
Then why, oh why did they decide to make one?
And why on earth did they decide to make it in China? A country where pay2win is normal, PS3's are illegal, the language barrier is a problem, the culture is completely different and development of FPS games is not exactly what they're known for (They play CoD and GTA like everyone else). And it's also on the other side of the planet, making real-time communications from HQ in Reykjavik a problem. |
The Spod
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
133
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 16:28:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:Gerald Sphinx wrote:SGTheron Shal'Tek wrote:Gerald Sphinx wrote:The thing here is that CCP is doing something that no other company has ever done before with a FPS game. Merge it with a 10-year-old MMO and connect it to an economy that is so complex that CCP needs a economist to make it balanced, while allowing all kinds of skullduggery and asshattery in the game. Honestly, the merge and economy between the two is nothing. There is very little to no connection. Sure you can do 'orbital strikes' and sure the suits and infantry gear is on the Eve market... But does that really do anything? The idea and concept behind Dust is amazing. But the development and execution has failed. The link between the two is hardly there. Dust is an FPS that will slowly fall behind if it's trend continues. With new consoles, exciting new FPS games, Dust is barely holding on. Fortunately CCP made Dust free, so that's giving it a fighting chance. It's only a matter of time until there is a small percentage of Dust players left, because everyone else will move on. But it still has a chance to recover. Besides, it's not like CCP were already experts with FPS development. They have no prior experience with FPS games. It's not the FPS part of the game that failed though... the first person shooting part has been implemented. It's everything else that's lacking/missing.
Disagree. It is excactly the FPS part that is severely lackluster and failed. Core game mechanics that define the competitiveness of a FPS game are not even near the standard level: responsiveness, framerate, controls on both KBM and controller (especially KBM is a joke), rendering distance, hit detection... everything is very much borked.
The rest is meaningless in comparison. EVE can be horribly unresponsive and bad to play, but it doesn't matter in a spreadsheet simulator. An FPS game lives and dies by the core gameplay though.
In fact, having played the metagame and "sandbox" part of dust extensively, that part is actually good and fresh for a FPS game. It works. The persistent sandbox and politics is nowhere else on a FPS game as it is in Dust. The core FPS is all that is holding Dust back. |
Gerald Sphinx
The Scope Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2013.12.04 21:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Souxie Alduin wrote:Then why, oh why did they decide to make one?
And why on earth did they decide to make it in China? A country where pay2win is normal, PS3's are illegal, the language barrier is a problem, the culture is completely different and development of FPS games is not exactly what they're known for (They play CoD and GTA like everyone else). And it's also on the other side of the planet, making real-time communications from HQ in Reykjavik a problem.
You should ask CCP that same question on why they created Eve Online in the first place if they had no prior experience making MMOs and their first official game was a board game with some cards.
PS: You can say the same thing about why they put the main server in London. |
eatsbabies cienfuegos
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 20:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cross C Ragweed wrote:Who's to say it's a bust? Current average of 4k players. I'd suggest a fair percentage of those have purchased the various elite, merc, etc. packs. Most are constantly running activate and passive boosters (AUR) and run aur proto gear.
i.e. the "micro transactions" just might be much more profitable than you are giving any credit for.
Also the idea that over 1 million pre-sells (US only) of the PS4, with the ones not making the pre-order out several months before they can hope for a box, along with the long-slow (and religiously painful) decline of PC supported games, tells a tell, that current gaming bucks are in the consoles.
If I was an investor in CCP and they did not have some long term plan to deal with the gamer move to consoles ... then I'd really be concerned.
The more they can immerse Dust with Eve, will also bring those console players (i.e. just like me) from Dust to Eve.
win win
it's making a gang of money from it's 'small' playerbase. make no mistake :) |
eatsbabies cienfuegos
The Sound Of Freedom Renegade Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2013.12.05 20:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
SGTheron Shal'Tek wrote:Gerald Sphinx wrote:The thing here is that CCP is doing something that no other company has ever done before with a FPS game. Merge it with a 10-year-old MMO and connect it to an economy that is so complex that CCP needs a economist to make it balanced, while allowing all kinds of skullduggery and asshattery in the game. Honestly, the merge and economy between the two is nothing. There is very little to no connection. Sure you can do 'orbital strikes' and sure the suits and infantry gear is on the Eve market... But does that really do anything? The idea and concept behind Dust is amazing. But the development and execution has failed. The link between the two is hardly there. Dust is an FPS that will slowly fall behind if it's trend continues. With new consoles, exciting new FPS games, Dust is barely holding on. Fortunately CCP made Dust free, so that's giving it a fighting chance. It's only a matter of time until there is a small percentage of Dust players left, because everyone else will move on.
do your research. you've not looked into the subject and you're spewing false information.
of course economical unity is high on the agenda, but not exactly the easiest thing in the world to do... |
Sebastian N Cain
Aliastra Gallente Federation
203
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 13:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cross C Ragweed wrote:Who's to say it's a bust? Current average of 4k players. I'd suggest a fair percentage of those have purchased the various elite, merc, etc. packs. Most are constantly running activate and passive boosters (AUR) and run aur proto gear.
i.e. the "micro transactions" just might be much more profitable than you are giving any credit for.
Also the idea that over 1 million pre-sells (US only) of the PS4, with the ones not making the pre-order out several months before they can hope for a box, along with the long-slow (and religiously painful) decline of PC supported games, tells a tell, that current gaming bucks are in the consoles.
If I was an investor in CCP and they did not have some long term plan to deal with the gamer move to consoles ... then I'd really be concerned.
The more they can immerse Dust with Eve, will also bring those console players (i.e. just like me) from Dust to Eve.
win win
So then it lost 25% players since you checked last. By now 4k is the peak and the average is about 3k players.
On weekends of course, within the week it is peaking at 3,5k and somewhere around 2,5k average. "You either need less science fiction or more medication."
"Or less medication and more ammo!" |
Souxie Alduin
Anarchy in the Eve
93
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Double post please delete |
Souxie Alduin
Anarchy in the Eve
93
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 18:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gerald Sphinx wrote:Souxie Alduin wrote:Then why, oh why did they decide to make one?
And why on earth did they decide to make it in China? A country where pay2win is normal, PS3's are illegal, the language barrier is a problem, the culture is completely different and development of FPS games is not exactly what they're known for (They play CoD and GTA like everyone else). And it's also on the other side of the planet, making real-time communications from HQ in Reykjavik a problem. You should ask CCP that same question on why they created Eve Online in the first place if they had no prior experience making MMOs and their first official game was a board game with some cards. PS: You can say the same thing about why they put the main server in London.
Edit: Nevermind. Forum ate my reply and I'm lazy. |
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Captain Ravanor Eistiras
Ironide Industries Aegis Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.12.30 03:05:00 -
[21] - Quote
if it was on the P,C you'd be blasting it like you do eve |
Gerald Sphinx
The Scope Gallente Federation
52
|
Posted - 2014.01.02 14:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Captain Ravanor Eistiras wrote:if it was on the P,C you'd be blasting it like you do eve
Exactly. I remember people giving Eve Online a hard time 5 years ago. |
Gh0stBust3rs
Wraith Shadow Guards D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
23
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Posted - 2014.01.04 09:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Basically I know people that have already dropped $200 on Dust alone and continue to buy things when they are released. For something Sony invested heavily in to ensure they got the title exclusively it hasnt been a bad break for them.
Dust has made money. It may not be the fountain of cash that an established COD clone. Its not this huge cash loss everyone seems to think it would/should/could be.
The targeted market a a tactial shooter means they werent going to keep 100k foaming at the mouth fps players anyways. They jump ship to the next FOTM everytime a new one is released.
What CCP is trying to do is not easy. It will take time. |
dcstar
Paradox Collective Choke Point
0
|
Posted - 2014.01.05 22:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Having played since 2004, I have seen much improvement. I feel people kept playing just cuz of its idea. I also started playing dust. Fine compared to say battlefield3 its miles behind, but be honest most of that player base will move to Bf4. Dust is improving, slowly, but those playing must see it still has alot to give. If they can build that eve, dust connection, and improve the fps aspect, we will have a game unlike those which regularly have to issue a new fsp each year.
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Cypherdog
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2014.01.08 13:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
DUST is not just imperfect and "might" improve in time. It's BAD. Full stop. One could say that the release was buggy, etc. but the problem is deeper and if some people want to settle for mediocre FPS' , then, so be it. There is no excuse in this day and age, with so many shooters that have populated the market since DOOM, to release such a mediocre product. It has impacted negatively into CCP's image and what they are capable of doing. Which is a shame. I hope they don't screw it up massively with Valkyrie too. |
Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
293
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 09:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Souxie Alduin wrote: Then why, oh why did they decide to make one?
And why on earth did they decide to make it in China? A country where pay2win is normal, PS3's are illegal, the language barrier is a problem, the culture is completely different and development of FPS games is not exactly what they're known for (They play CoD and GTA like everyone else). And it's also on the other side of the planet, making real-time communications from HQ in Reykjavik a problem.
The only explanation for the existence of Dust 514 as it stands I could figure out is: they intentionally searched for the stupidest, most absurd ideas with the least chance of success, just to show they could do it.
Cypherdog wrote: It has impacted negatively into CCP's image and what they are capable of doing. Which is a shame. I hope they don't screw it up massively with Valkyrie too.
Add it to the long list of stupid decisions they have consistently made during the last 2 years. I have really started to worry about CCP lately. In after the lock :P -á - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
40
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 19:19:00 -
[27] - Quote
Ok, i'll make this fast cause this stuff annoys me.
1) to the op, are you one of said investors? no? then go on to two
2) Do you work for CCP? No? then go on three
3) Do you have access to there finical reports about how much they spent on dust and how much it is making? No? then go two four.
4) If you answered 'no' to any of the above then you are talking out of your ass.
If you answered Yes to any of the above, and can prove it, then the rest of this post will not apply.
As you have no information as to the actual amount of money dust is brining in, then you can not say 'errr dust failed!' because you do not know. And what is your definition of fail? That it doesn't make money? That people leave and it makes no money? That it makes money even with people playing and leaving? That the game play suck... yet its making money?
The point is, you, as a consumer, have ZERO idea if dust is making money. It like because you think the ipad sucked that apple was losing money on them.. when they made fist fulls over fist fulls. The issue with dust is there is not a solid metric to see if it made money right away. All the money is made form the back end. It could have 100 people playing, but they could be forking out thousands upon thousands a month. The point is you do not know.
Now lets look at another angle. Lets say, ccp invested $1m into dust. Then lets say for this year they have allocated $100k for upkeep and updates (low numbers I know) Lets say, after this fiscal year, dust makes.. mm i'll way low ball, $10k So total failure. Lets say ccp decides to write that off and keep the 100k allocated for next year. So lets say next year it makes $5k, so Dust now cost 1.2m and made $15k, for a loss of 1.185 mill. CCP has to make up for said money, lets not have Valkyrie in this at all. So, at a loss like that, if CCP decides to close dust... where do you think the cuts will come from to make up the loss? That's right, eve.
It is completey insane to keep stating Dust has failed when 1) you have ZERO data that proves it. Player counts on a free to play micro transaction game =! anything.
And if you REALLY love eve and want it to stick around, you would not be wishing, hoping, or helping Dust to die. You would be trying to make it stable and a success, because if dust goes under with ANY loss, EVE will suffer. (I am ignoring WoD and Valkyrie, either of which if made could midigate or recover the loss of dust) For if dust goes under, CCP itself very well could.
The point is, stop talking out of your ass, and if you have real issues with dust go post them in areas where the devs can see and make changes. |
Dkamanus
Comando Brasil
5
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 05:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
I really hope Dust doesn't become a Bust, mostly because of the potential it has. Granted, having it on PS3 only was a bad idea, if they wanted to cater the FPS community, they should have gone PC all the way (and they wouldn't lose EVE players, mostly because EVE players like ships). I believe the development will actually garner fruit, mostly because I'm starting to feel that the game will be going to the PC, integrated in some form directly in the EVE (which would give em more subs, who knows).
In a worst case scenario, SteamOS will bring it hopefully. Considering it a bust with one year only isn't gonna make things better. |
Cypherdog
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 11:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
DaReaper wrote: For if dust goes under, CCP itself very well could.
I doubt that. CCP has a very strong foundation with EVE. The DUST debacle scratched it's pride a little, but they can cope for the time being. I'd be embarrassed to show it on E3. Tell ANYONE who works in the industry that DUST is good but misunderstood and all it need is time. You'll be rebuffed. The EVE tree can survive without that DUST branch. |
DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
42
|
Posted - 2014.01.10 20:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
Cypherdog wrote:DaReaper wrote: For if dust goes under, CCP itself very well could.
I doubt that. CCP has a very strong foundation with EVE. The DUST debacle scratched it's pride a little, but they can cope for the time being. I'd be embarrassed to show it on E3. Tell ANYONE who works in the industry that DUST is good but misunderstood and all it need is time. You'll be rebuffed. The EVE tree can survive without that DUST branch.
that depends on how much money was thrown into dust. if they made a huge bet/gamble and it fails.... I don't see it as a failure, hell I don't like fps, but i'll go do a few rounds in dust and get my butt kicked. its fun though, but that's me I guess |
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