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trust trd
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:07:00 -
[1]
I've been noticing that people are paying some very high prices for T2 BPO's and some seem to not even care which ones they buy. The prices are such that it would take years to get your money back from the purchase. That is assuming prices did not change. What I am wondering is it possible that some, with billions in isks, could be buying all the BPO's they can till their are so few producers that they can charge significantly more?
This is just a thought, as I have no idea of the current state of how many T2 BPO's exist, who owns them, and how often more T2 BPO's come out. The system has always been confusing to me.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:10:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Dark Shikari on 13/02/2006 22:10:53
Originally by: trust trd I've been noticing that people are paying some very high prices for T2 BPO's and some seem to not even care which ones they buy. The prices are such that it would take years to get your money back from the purchase. That is assuming prices did not change. What I am wondering is it possible that some, with billions in isks, could be buying all the BPO's they can till their are so few producers that they can charge significantly more?
This is just a thought, as I have no idea of the current state of how many T2 BPO's exist, who owns them, and how often more T2 BPO's come out. The system has always been confusing to me.
***WARNING INCOMING FLAMEWAR ALERT!***
There are only a couple T2 cartels, and none of those are selling their BPOs.
There is a lot of overpayment for BPOs, which is why I offer a T2 BPO analysis service (plug!).
Many T2 BPOs are very overvalued, and people don't realize until they buy them how much they are (or are not) worth.
I personally consider 1 year the absolute maximum payback time that is reasonable. Quite often the value of a BPO will also take a nosedive, meaning that you may end up coming out in the red after even 6 months of producing! -- Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
<3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron POKEMON -eris Jacques was 'ere Capsicum still is | Jorauk was, but got hungry and left Everytime you turn down a duel, 1 unit of chicken appears on market -zhuge liang |
Empire Runner
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:11:00 -
[3]
Yes this happens.
Go try and buy a Hulk (Tech 2 Mining Barge)
They came out at 500m (!)
Now I can get on a waiting list to get one at 850m.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:12:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Empire Runner Yes this happens.
Go try and buy a Hulk (Tech 2 Mining Barge)
They came out at 500m (!)
Now I can get on a waiting list to get one at 850m.
And this is because of a few reasons:
1. Tons of carebear miners want one. 2. There are only 20 BPOs, each of which builds REALLY slow. 3. The BPO was just released, so there are very few.
It often takes months for a ship like the Hulk to be saturated into the market enough for the price to fall to reasonable levels. -- Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
<3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron POKEMON -eris Jacques was 'ere Capsicum still is | Jorauk was, but got hungry and left Everytime you turn down a duel, 1 unit of chicken appears on market -zhuge liang |
Empire Runner
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:16:00 -
[5]
I would have thought that was the case, but I just cant see the 2000% - 3000% markup in any sort of actual market.
The only force I could see that would cause that sort of a mark up with steady increase would a monopoly of some kind.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:18:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Empire Runner I would have thought that was the case, but I just cant see the 2000% - 3000% markup in any sort of actual market.
The only force I could see that would cause that sort of a mark up with steady increase would a monopoly of some kind.
Trust me, this is how it works.
If you watched the original sales threads, you'd see that the hulks sold out INSTANTLY. So prices went up. And the hulks still sold out instantly. And so on. -- Proud member of the [23].
The Tachikomas are DEAD! Click sig for video.
<3 Tachikomas -Eldo But I'm the cutest of them all, and I'm not even a blue robot - Wrangler I have seen you. You cannot deny it anymore - Vanamonde You used to be one of the twenty three, now you are a part of me - Cortes Immy > You All - Imaran Tachikomas > All ~kieron POKEMON -eris Jacques was 'ere Capsicum still is | Jorauk was, but got hungry and left Everytime you turn down a duel, 1 unit of chicken appears on market -zhuge liang |
Empire Runner
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:25:00 -
[7]
I understand that, and it makes sense to a degree. But 850m ? That just doesnt seem right.
A skiff (Mines more isk/hour) has the same problem, sell very fast, same class of BPO (Tech2) and yet the price for it remails stable at 70m or so. And thats for an item with a slightly higher ISK / Hour ratio. Yet the markup (200% or so) remails reasonable.
Normal market forces shouldnt drive costs down when we are taking about 2000% markup. Am I missing something other than a near-monopoly on BPO's ?
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:27:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Empire Runner I would have thought that was the case, but I just cant see the 2000% - 3000% markup in any sort of actual market.
The only force I could see that would cause that sort of a mark up with steady increase would a monopoly of some kind.
There's a much simpler force that will cause those kind of markets. Supply low, and fixed - demand high, and rising - prices go through the roof.
There are only three ways in which the prices can possibly fall. (1) The Secure Commerce Commission (read: CCP) impose a price limit and prevent anyone from profiteering to this extent. (NEVER going to happen) (2) People refuse to pay so much, so producers have to cut prices in order to make a sale. (Doesn't seem very likely either) or (3) CCP release more bpo's and the supply increases. (Lots of people are badgering for this to happen. Whether it's likely, I do not know.) ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
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Jacques Archambault
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:28:00 -
[9]
Take a look at some of the stickies at the top of this forum:
Pros T2 market
Cons T2 market
Jacques'
Member of the official Eris Discordia FanclubFastest sig nerfer south of EVE Information CenterLets see how it takes for this sig to become desecrated.... RAWR! First -Capsicum
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Empire Runner
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:30:00 -
[10]
To try and keep this on topic -
Do you think that the correlation of extremly high prices is evidence of some sort of T2 Monopoly or just normal market forces exterting themselves ?
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:38:00 -
[11]
On 3 items, there is pricefixing high enough to notice. On at least 1 more, the price fixing is low enough that it is never noticed (hence it just prevents dumping).
Of all the items, that's not bad.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
trust trd
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:43:00 -
[12]
IF I had a few billion isk (which I don't) I would try to buy all the BPO's for one items (say covert ops cloak). I would pay more then the person could ever make selling it themselves. Once I owned most of them I would then triple the price as there is no alternative.
What made me think of this issue (I haven't been following T2 prodution till this) was because I was looking at cloaks and they used to be 20m and now it is 35-50m yet they did not just come out nor were they changed in the last update.
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Sarmea Moon
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:44:00 -
[13]
You've forgotten another market force... The *ISK Sink* force. Until we get a chance to decorate our hangars with truly expensive color paint, or the chance to paint our titans with lime green, orange and pink stripes ( at a billion a stripe:D), players will have very few ways to spend isk. I mean, once you've bought your alliance an outpost, what do you spend it on? Another point, what's it worth to a PvP corp, to be able to nearly instantly replace that T2 ship-of-choice? Easily worth that 100 days profit! And you can even sell extras to defray some of that cost. --------- "English doesn't borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over, and goes through thier pockets for loose grammar. " |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:45:00 -
[14]
Cloaks are problem items, yes.
But pretty much all T2 item costs are by anyway because of the 1870's production system CCP has put into place in place of the modern JIT system we had before.
Digital Communist> The Jin-Mei are probably more profficient in training for Tofu and Noodles than Spaceship Command |
trust trd
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:50:00 -
[15]
Fine make T2 items expensive, I don't care as the rules apply for everyone and I just use the many alternatives that exist. However, if monopolistic practices are happening then I think that would have a negative effect on the eveconomy. The covert cloak is a good example of an item that would hurt in a monopoly as there is no viable alternative for cloaking your covert ops ship.
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.02.13 22:54:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Empire Runner To try and keep this on topic -
Do you think that the correlation of extremly high prices is evidence of some sort of T2 Monopoly or just normal market forces exterting themselves ?
To be specific, I'd say it was *abnormal* market forces exerting themselves. The prices aren't being fixed by a cartel; they're fixed high because there's a sharply. and artificially, limited (fixed) supply of blueprints. In a realistic economy, some NPC corp would have realised how many billions they could make by releasing another few bpo's and would have done so. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Kay Brack
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Posted - 2006.02.14 15:34:00 -
[17]
Personally i believe the high prices are caused by speculators. If you pay attention to the market you will see producers release a batch within 1-2 days the entire stock will be bought and repriced. I watched a batch of T2 125 rails go from 800 to 1.2 over the course of 3 days in lonetrek just last week.
Producers aren't braindead though, if they see the repriced items moving quickly in the same region thay will up the cost of their next run.
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robacz
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Posted - 2006.02.14 16:12:00 -
[18]
Originally by: trust trd What made me think of this issue (I haven't been following T2 prodution till this) was because I was looking at cloaks and they used to be 20m and now it is 35-50m yet they did not just come out nor were they changed in the last update.
Recon ships came in RMR, so there is higher demand for covert ops cloak.
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