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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
98
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Posted - 2011.12.20 14:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Kata Amentis wrote:The Mittani wrote: I think Incursions are superior in all ways to L4 missions. They generate content, socialization, and in some cases PvP. They're a great way for corps to form and recruit.
Very true, the social side is by far the best thing about incursions. The isk is nice, but the social side takes away the boring grind of making isk.
Listening to one person call different sansha primaries is not really socializing. But I guess to some it is - or they don't want to admit its really just about the isk. Like you say the isk is nice.
I think CCP assumes people who play EVE are socially defunct. They are constantly assuming we need to "socialize" more and therefore mechanics that force even the most basic utterances are seen as superior to those that don't.
Why does ccp assume its subscribers are looking to a computer game to be their social network?
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
99
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Posted - 2011.12.21 22:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:I'm kind of leading an invaison of Branch right now and setting things on fire, apologies for the delays in posting itt.
Thats good to hear. I was starting to think the only "great wars" eve would ever have were over when bob was disbanded. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
127
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Posted - 2011.12.29 16:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:Cearain wrote:The Mittani wrote:I'm kind of leading an invaison of Branch right now and setting things on fire, apologies for the delays in posting itt. Thats good to hear. I was starting to think the only "great wars" eve would ever have were over when bob was disbanded. Well, to be a "Great War" the other side has to put up a fight. Since WN is not puting up any meanigful fight, this is not a great war. If anything it is better to say that we are going to "go a viking", than anything else. Look up the etymology for viking here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking#Etymology
I can't blame Mittens for that. If I could I would.
I really don't know what the issue is with null sec being carebear central for pretty much the last year or 2 but it is pathetic. If its the case that there is no way you can hold onto your territory if you go warring then ccp needs to fix that. (I really am not sure how. Maybe randomly change what moons are worth so people are always fighting to get the best ones or something.)
I don't do null sec but even I used to like to hear about all the capitals getting blown up in null sec. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
214
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Posted - 2012.01.09 18:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:Cearain wrote: I think CCP assumes people who play EVE are socially defunct. They are constantly assuming we need to "socialize" more and therefore mechanics that force even the most basic utterances are seen as superior to those that don't.
Why does ccp assume its subscribers are looking to a computer game to be their social network?
The statistics contradict your argument - players are much more likely to continue playing EVE if they join a corporation and engage in multiplayer activities.
The statistic proves my argument. Eve is losing allot of players who don't want EVE to be their social media platform. Only players that do use it a some sort of social media stay because it is forced down our throats so if you don't like it you tend to leave.
Your reading this sort of like a study the Catholic Church did where they found that most priests don't find the celibacy requirement to be too onerous. Of course, they don't because if they did find it to be too onerous they wouldn't be priests.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
214
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Posted - 2012.01.09 20:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Cearain wrote: The statistic proves my argument. Eve is losing allot of players who don't want EVE to be their social media platform. Only players that do use it a some sort of social media stay because it is forced down our throats so if you don't like it you tend to leave.
(Ok Cearain - lets see if we can do this without bringing up plexes ) I was hoping if you could clarify what you meant here? I've always seen plugging one's self in socially as the key to long-term success and happiness in a game like EvE. I don't really understand why someone would try to "go it alone" in an MMO when there are a host of great single players games offering better solo gameplay. .
Are they mmos, that have a perpetual universe on a single shard? Do you not think these are important parts of eve for people who would play eve solo or with just loose affilliations?
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: If you're speaking about more "casual" gameplay being integrated into the game, such as content that can be accessed within the hour, whether its shorter-length PvE, or shorter length PvP such as (DOH!!! I did it, I mentioned plexing again....) In that case I agree, EvE needs more variety in that department..
There is definitely an overlap. We both agree eve needs more here. Those who not only have time to play eve but also socialize for long periods of time with eve players are generally less casual than those who just like to log in every now and then and mess around in the eve universe. There is not only very little for people who are more casual to do but CCP seems to want to specifically nerf what they can do by artificial mechanics like the incursion pay scale. They also spend allot more time and resources on the parts of the game that would appeal to those who are less casual. E.g., they spend allot more time and resources to sov null sec than they do to npc null sec and low sec. This is just my opinion.
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote: But perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you mean exactly by "players that don't want to use EvE as social media" - are you saying those that want to log in and not interact with other players at all? Or just those that want to log in and use a matchmaking type service to grab partners for content, rather than being forced to pick a corp, make friends, etc?
....
No thats not what I mean. What I mean is people who want to play a computer game but don't want to commit lots time to socializing with people they meet in the game. That includes allot more than people who don't want to interact at all. I doubt that is even possible. At the very least they would use the market at some time and sell something or buy something that is not produced by npcs. That is the thing, everyone is contributing to what eve online is.
People intereract in this game quite a bit. It's not the case that unless you spend allot of time chatting and developing friendships on vent that you are not interacting with other players in this game. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
217
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Posted - 2012.01.16 15:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
The Mittani wrote: A) I've banged this drum for a while now - EVE needs some quick action options, but they don't even need to be in nullsec. Running a mission isn't 'quick action', it's 'quick stab your eyeballs out from sheer boredom'. This is why I support some kind of arena/battleground/combat simulator/whatever - the details itself aren't something I'm wedded to, but I would like to be able to log into EVE, mash a button, and be able to play for half an hour and then log off. involving that had been discussed back in May, not in such exact terms, but I think it'd be a cool mechanic that deserves some focus.
This is a great drum to pick, you are right some quick action is what eve lacks most. ItGÇÖs why allot of people leave because eve is boring.
However I think the instanced combat/arena style is the easy/bad option and at least 2 better options are worth exploring first.
1) FW occupancy plexing. The plexes can be spread out and taken in anywhere from 10-20 minutes. If CCP let pilots in fw know when their complexes are being attacked then people could find combat in a few jumps all the time. It wouldn't be instanced made up combat because you never know who else is going to the plex. But the plexes are ship size restricted and they do not allow warping inside the plex. So it would be a great way to get allot of pvp without the use of arenas or instanced pvp. The npcs would need to be removed/modified so people donGÇÖt have to fit a pve ship. My sig has more of the idea.
People who don't like generally don't like it because they like to "hunt" for pvp and want people to have to have scouts everywhere. But like you said eve is fine for those with lots of time to wait and hunt for action. It offers nothing for those who don't want to wait.
2) If they do go an arena route make it so alliances would need to buy an arena and there would be construction materials needed to build it. They can install guns and ecm into the arena. But ships could still potentially crash the fight.(its eve) However then they would get the arena guns and ecm hitting them. It would be the equivalent of coliseums, but it would be all player run. No appealing to the ccp gods to keep it safe. Yes the coliseums could be destroyed as well in times of war but they could also just be taken over by whoever has sov there.
The coliseums could be set up with various sensors and requirements. Perhaps sometimes you can warp out without penalty perhaps you asplode if you warp out. Sometimes you could warp back in sometimes not. Sometimes your goal is to try to keep within a certain distance of a beacon for a certain amount of time. The coliseum would have different add ons that you can construct that would allow these different types of contests.
Null sec alliances might get the reputation for running fair tournaments that people like to join. Then those alliances could start running their own tournaments and charging admission and giving prizes.
Both options might work well but fixing the fw plexxing would lead to the more fun and crazy fights IMO.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
245
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Posted - 2012.02.03 02:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
The Mittani wrote: .....When CSM6 was elected, a huge chunk of the playerbase thought the CSM was a waste of time and powerless. After my tenure as Chair, most of the screeching has changed tone to 'CSM has too much power', ....
I don't recall anyone saying that recently. I think you complained that CCP was listening to csm 5. But after that there was very few who thought ccp was listening to csm too much. In fact, your saying that of csm 5 may have been the only time anyone ever complained CSM had too much power.
I think the concerns are still that CSM is a pr stunt for ccp. The "emergency summit" where you attempted damage control for ccp and your "defense of incarna" definitely increased that perception. But alas it wasn't enough and people kept unsubbing. So ccp had to actually work on their product and hence we get crucible.
Yes CSM 6 did seem to eventually come around and encourage ccp to work on EVE. CSM6 was ridiculously late in the game but it did eventually happen. So IGÇÖm glad you all finally came around.
The other screeching has to do with CSM 6 now just giving their own personal opinions behind the closed door of the nda. Most of these personal opinions never got the support of players via assembly hall. Did *anything* CSM 6 said in the minutes get an assembly hall vote?
So when we get the minutes and read you guys recommending things no one even heard of, let alone supported I think they are like "yeah whatever we have nothing to do with any of this crap."
Now if you mean that csm has *in-game* power because of the increased nda information you are privy to, then yeah a bit of concern was expressed. I myself raised that issue, but really no one seemed to care. Oh well.
If you guys were so powerfull the forums wouldn't eat so many posts. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
245
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Posted - 2012.02.03 06:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:You're one of the screechers, of course; you screeched back when I ran for CSM6, and you're still screeching.
But hey, at least you're not in ~The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION~ anymore (tildes mine, actual corp name otherwise, no troll) so maybe someone could accidentally take your posts seriously.
Yeah whatever. What I said is true. You know it. So you didn't/can't take issue with any particular point I made.
I'm certainly not screeching that csm6 has too much power over ccp. lol.
You were the one screeching to your alliance that ccp is listening to csm 5. You can try to deny it but the internet remembers this sort of thing.
I'm also not entirely unhappy with you guys/csm6 so no reason to get upset.
And what is the problem with my old corp? Your lazier than I am retiring before 30 and all. I can't believe someone from goose swarm is saying they can't take my posts seriously because of my corp. ffs! Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
253
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Posted - 2012.02.09 17:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
The Mittani wrote:It might be a cat out of a bag for your people, but my people are happier with CCP not implementing ~grand ideas~ on null without testing them elsewhere first..
The people who do null sec sov war are after completely different things in eve than people who are in low sec or doing faction war. Your suggestion that the mechanics be the same, or one be a test bed for the other, completely misses this fundamental point. I will make an attempt to spell this out for you because you clearly don't get it.
Yes there currently are more people in null sec. However, if CCP spent as much time thinking about and iterating on faction war and low sec and left null sec abandoned like they have low sec and faction war then the numbers would be more than reversed. The potential playerbase that would be attracted to low sec and faction war is much larger than the playerbase who can be attracted to null sec sov warfar.
Sov null sec is for people who are willing to dedicate allot of their lives to a computer game. They are willing to wait around a long time for those epic battles. The epic battles are indeed epic and when they happen its extremely high stakes for a computer game. That part is great and works out well for people like yourself who are retired or perhaps people in college who havenGÇÖt yet fully experienced the real life grind. IGÇÖm not putting this part of the game down at all. If I had allot of extra time I would probably do that myself. But the reality is I donGÇÖt have that sort of time. And I am allot more typical GÇô at least when it comes to adults who might play eve - than people like yourself who are retired and have lots of free time for computer games.
You said it yourself that one of the goals in sov warfare is to make it so the other side doesnGÇÖt want to sign on anymore. Well the problem is the things you have to do to in order to make the other side not want to sign in are extremely boring to allot of people. POS bashing Camping stations and gates never really getting anything but ganks and no really good fights for hours on end. This isnGÇÖt stuff allot of players find entertaining.
However, sov null sec has to be that way because the stakes are higher. The timers should be slow giving each side time to get their large fleets together. CCP canGÇÖt make it so that if you sign off for a few hours you find that when you log back on you lost your system and all your crap there. With the high stakes comes allot of boring downtime that is all there is to it.
Balancing or giving more isk for doing sov null sec stuff is just rolling that turd in glitter. I can only use isk in game and if the game play primarily consists of sitting around waiting for something to happen then itGÇÖs worthless. I couldnGÇÖt care less about it.
Faction war and low sec is for people who want to be entertained without committing their lives to a computer game. Think GÇ£better than tv.GÇ¥ I come home from work put the kids to bed and I have a an hour or two before bed. I can watch tv with my wife or I can go shoot some people in the face.
Like hans says the mechanics need to be set up to bring about frequent fun small scale fights. The faction war plexing mechanics seem to have been geared to do that but they have sat broken for years. These plex mechanics need to be fine tuned and balanced more often than anything else in eve.
If a group at ccp took it upon themselves to say it is their goal to tweak and balance the plex mechanics to make sure that there is always lots of small scale pvp happening in these plexes (and low sec general) the eve subscriber base would explode.
ItGÇÖs not going to be something where they just make one change and it works. It will need allot of fine tuning to get it going right. Lots of iterating. But it will be worth it to a much larger potential playerbase than sov null sec could ever hope to capture.
But instead it sits neglected. So what happens? I and many in low sec will often sign on and spend a few hours roaming around with no action at all. Sorry thatGÇÖs not even better than tv. String several nights like that together where I go to sleep thinking I should have watched a show instead of signing on and ccp loses subscribers.
Moreover, the fights should have *some* significance. I mean right now the low sec fights are just barely a step up from sisi. The stakes shouldnGÇÖt be so high that it turns into sov null sec but there should be some overarching goals that somewhat accurately measure who is doing well at the parts of the game people value.(i.e., who is doing well at small gang pvp) This is important so itGÇÖs not just a constant meaningless thunderdome.
I would also bet that many people who have the time to play the null sec sov stuff would like to head over to faction war and low sec if ccp actually developed it. Just for a change of pace.
TLDR:
Eve can work for people who have allot of time to play the game and for people who don't. But the same mechanics aren't always going to work for both sets of people.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
254
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Posted - 2012.02.09 20:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
JamesCLK wrote:Cearain wrote: :words::words::words::words::words::words: and more :words:
Mittens prefering to test 0.0 sov mechanics on FW, and Mittens (as the chairman) trying to push the CSM to advocate 0.0 sov mechanics to be tested on FW, are two entirely different arguments. His stance is from my understanding the former of the two.
Ignoring your bad/pointless distinction, his suggestion is still horrible. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
254
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Posted - 2012.02.09 21:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:No it isn't
Yes it is for the reasons I spelled out at great length.
But if you want to keep thinking that faction war/low sec players, and sov null sec players are after the same things in eve, thats your right. Just like its your right to mindlessly defend mittani for any of his other idiotic suggestions for the game. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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