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AnUnskilled Pilot
State War Academy Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2013.11.14 13:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
Part of my problem with eve pvp is how fast its over. Its hard to learn from a fight that lasts 10 seconds. Most frig nd destroyer fights last 10 seconds. For the logistics needed to set up a pvp ship and find a fight all that setup for such a fast fight seems silly to me. I'd like it if fights lasted longer |
Morgan Torry
Arma Purgatorium Templis Dragonaors
166
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Posted - 2013.11.14 14:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
AnUnskilled Pilot wrote:Part of my problem with eve pvp is how fast its over. Its hard to learn from a fight that lasts 10 seconds. Most frig nd destroyer fights last 10 seconds. For the logistics needed to set up a pvp ship and find a fight all that setup for such a fast fight seems silly to me. I'd like it if fights lasted longer
Wishful thinking. If your fights are lasting only ten seconds you are doing something wrong...either you aren't tanked enough or you're fighting something/numbers you have no business doing. A good frig versus frig fight will last anywhere between 30 to 50 seconds. Yes it is short, but that's part of the adrenaline. If we tried to scale frigates to last longer then we'd run into the issue of sizeable scaling....battleship engagements would take hours instead of the 20+ minutes. I don't know about you but after forming fleets, herding cats, and finally moving - I'd like not to add additional time to the adrenaline that is combat. Two-hour cap fights in extreme TiDi are terrible enough for boredom and lack of excitement. Imagine if we had to just increase frig fights to a minute and a half...we'd have to have 5+ hour cap fights easily instead of the usual two after TiDi.
I do find your username to be curious, after writing this. Arma Purgatorium - For the State, For the Corporation Faction Warfare, PvP, Training
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DaRiKavus
Expendable Assets
21
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Posted - 2013.11.14 14:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
I dont profess to being the best PvP'er (read as average to shocking) but I have the following points for you.
(1) If you fly brawling ships, warp in, tackle and wait too see who dies first then it will be over realively quickly (assuming you are flying frigs/dessie)
(2) You may want to look at something that is able to dictate range, usuallly these kiting ships deal less damage but also receive less incoming damage. This can lead to some interesting fights that take a little longer than 10secs. Of course this doesnt mean you will never die in a fire again.
(3) There is always the option of going up a ship class but I dont recommend that as a way to go.
(4) Take a look at some active tanked ships, there is loads of info/fits out there. |
Teqq Cruiser
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
4
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Posted - 2013.11.14 15:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
I kind of agree a bit, but then again BC or BS fight would be toooo long. Some type of frigate fights are long, for exemple mwd kiting fights. But Brawling can last 10-15 seconds even between 2 experienced frigate pilots. Overall if all your frigate fights last 10 seconds, you 1- have a bad fit and / or 2-have bad tactics and / or 3- Bad skills. Always assume your opponent to have lvl5 skill everywhere, for that specific fight / ship etc. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
677
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Posted - 2013.11.14 22:29:00 -
[5] - Quote
Most frig fights are over before the first shot if fired. It is mostly about how the fight is set up.
Are you warping into a plex in a brawler where you oppenting is sitting is a probably kite fit ship? Then a good chance you are gonna die.
Are you sitting on the beacon of a plex with a probably kitey on short range with your scram OH and ready to tackle? Then you are probably gonna murder them.
Are you in a fast warping scram brawler in null bouncing between various celestials trying to get that pesky inty to land on you? If you get within scram range you will kill them quickly. If not they will point you and their friends will come and stomp you down.
Are you fighting a guy you have fought a hundred times over and know he like rail incursus? Grab a TD slasher and get up close and personal while TD'ing him. Funny how long rnage weapons can't track at close quarters.
What I'm pointing out is that the 'actual' fight is over very quickly because either of you have an advantage (because of fight prep or luck) and the actual fight is often a predetermined outcome. The skill of frig combat is in the prep, knowing your and your enemies likely capabilities, sitrep and how to adapt/influence those variable to produce the best outcome. Actually going in a killing your opponent should be a quick affair if you have done all the above correctly.
Having said that there will always be times when you get into a fight realise that you should be murdered then pull off a surprising victory. Usually it is because there was something overlooked or a mistake was made by either party. This is player v player afterall not ship v ship. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Princess Nexxala
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
483
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Posted - 2013.11.15 15:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
I have had frig fights last an hour, and I have had them last for less then half a second. I think its pretty cool .
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Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1671
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Posted - 2013.11.15 15:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
I spent half an hour trying to kill a dual rep Incursus in my Heron.
Didn't feel too fast to me =< BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
1868
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Posted - 2013.11.15 16:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
A bunch of people wished that PvP would be slower. Now we have TiDi. |
adriaans
Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
4
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Posted - 2013.11.16 16:58:00 -
[9] - Quote
No. Less time for the ganksquad/blob to come and ruin perfectly good fights. If anything fights take too long nowadays compared to when I started. ----True oldschool solo pvp'er---- My latest vid: Insanity IV |
Shadow Adanza
Quantum Cats Syndicate Samurai Pizza Cats
116
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Posted - 2013.11.16 17:05:00 -
[10] - Quote
Um. No. Know what happens when frig fights take longer than two minutes?
One of the parties posts in corp chat "Can't kill this (frig) in (system), could I get someone to come finish him off?" They'd rather turn it into a gank than sit back and let skills/endurance decide the fight. I've even been guilty of this when it took me 7+ minutes trying to break an Incursus. Are you suggesting coconuts migrate? |
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
11
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Posted - 2013.11.16 21:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
AnUnskilled Pilot wrote:Part of my problem with eve pvp is how fast its over. Its hard to learn from a fight that lasts 10 seconds. Most frig nd destroyer fights last 10 seconds. For the logistics needed to set up a pvp ship and find a fight all that setup for such a fast fight seems silly to me. I'd like it if fights lasted longer
Opposite to my view, for a couple of reasons:
1. The fast pace of Frig/Dessie means you have to think and act quickly. In my experience, this pays off later when you are in a cruiser or battleship and the fights last longer.
2. Knowing that the fight will be short and intense forces, me at least, to ensure I have a clear understanding of the main doctrine of my ship from the fit I'm using. It's also forced me to understand how other ships are likely to be setup and develop a mental battleplan before I get into a fight so I have a basic approach worked out up front. Fighting to the strengths of my setup has helped me not only win fights, but also extract myself when things have gone bad. I find as I'm getting better at fighting, I can last longer and draw a fight out longer too.
So in my view, while it would sometimes be good to have longer fights, I find these 2 advantages of frig/dessie pvp to far outway the inconvenience of being killed in about a 10th of the time it took me to puy and fit a ship up. |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
375
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Posted - 2013.11.16 23:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Fly a vengeance....
Your fights will normally last until someone dies of boredom. |
Heather Maywether
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.11.17 00:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
DaRiKavus wrote: (3) There is always the option of going up a ship class but I dont recommend that as a way to go.
I actually do. Cruisers are cheap and they're pretty damn balanced. Plus the fights last long enough for you to identify your mistakes and try and compensate for them there and then. When I first got into PVP it was in frigs as I followed the standard 'buy every Incursus in Jita and suicide them all, when you're done you'll be leet' advice. Didn't enjoy it one bit. Tried cruiser PVP, still lost epically, but enjoyed it much more as the battles last longer and you can see your mistakes as you make them. When I had a slightly better (still terribad) grasp of the fundamentals I went back to frigates and enjoyed them much more then when I first flew them. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
687
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Posted - 2013.11.17 01:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Heather Maywether wrote:DaRiKavus wrote: (3) There is always the option of going up a ship class but I dont recommend that as a way to go.
I actually do. Cruisers are cheap and they're pretty damn balanced. Plus the fights last long enough for you to identify your mistakes and try and compensate for them there and then. When I first got into PVP it was in frigs as I followed the standard 'buy every Incursus in Jita and suicide them all, when you're done you'll be leet' advice. Didn't enjoy it one bit. Tried cruiser PVP, still lost epically, but enjoyed it much more as the battles last longer and you can see your mistakes as you make them. When I had a slightly better (still terribad) grasp of the fundamentals I went back to frigates and enjoyed them much more then when I first flew them.
However a stand pvp fit cruiser will put to back 30-35mil? and a frig 8-12mil? So 3 times more fights for the same price. Experience is often the best teacher for pvp in EVE and more experience i.e fights will get you more use. Also most people learn more form their mistakes than their wins.
The key to learning from frig pvp is being able to review your fights, a lot of people use things like fraps so they can review every second of the fight to see how it when etc. I'm lucky I have a near photographic memory for this kind of thing so I pretty muhc just review my logs to get a picture of how I died
Having sid that is isk isn't an issue then cruiser pvp can be a good learner but it is very different to frig pvp. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Skelee VI
Wraithguard. Dirt Nap Squad.
29
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Posted - 2013.11.18 21:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Slower? I guess you never experienced Tidi! |
Batelle
Komm susser Tod
367
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Posted - 2013.11.18 21:34:00 -
[16] - Quote
Skelee VI wrote:Slower? I guess you never experienced Tidi! beat me to it.
If OP wants slower PVP, OP should just start PVP-ing in battleships. Fighting is Magic |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
2887
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Posted - 2013.11.18 21:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
PvP engagements happen at different rates depending on what your engaging, what your flying, etc....
Frig combat is usually 10-30s, although I've had much longer frig fights (soloing a Raven with a rifter, soloing a drake with a taranis, soloing an ASB hawk with a helios, etc)
Experience will let you estimate how long it'll take to kill a certain target, and that's part of the "should I engage" meta.
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Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
43
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Posted - 2013.11.19 08:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Slow PvP is bane of user friendly games. Quicor instant pvp in your hardly grinded for ship is that which makes your heart racing. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
796
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Posted - 2013.11.19 13:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
AnUnskilled Pilot wrote:Part of my problem with eve pvp is how fast its over. Its hard to learn from a fight that lasts 10 seconds. Most frig nd destroyer fights last 10 seconds. For the logistics needed to set up a pvp ship and find a fight all that setup for such a fast fight seems silly to me. I'd like it if fights lasted longer
For starter.. Try not clicking approach. TRy keeping range from your enemy until you can act correctly.
The approach and fire all guns approach only work for gallente.
That alone should double the time of your combat. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Blasto
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2013.11.19 17:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:I spent half an hour trying to kill a dual rep Incursus in my Heron.
Didn't feel too fast to me =<
Upgrade your hacking modules.... duh. |
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Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
45
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Posted - 2013.11.19 18:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
new warp mechanics might not effect on-grid engagements toooo bad but being able to get in-system and on top of a target that much faster should speed things up nicely, maybe. |
Pinky Feldman
Gank Bangers
662
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Posted - 2013.11.20 09:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
Fights in eve are actually a lot slower paced than people realize. I can't count is many times people have been all like "Man we were melting primaries I could barely lock in time!" and then you go back and watch fraps they're taking 20-30s to go down.
The moar you cry the less you pee |
Bad Messenger
Nasranite Watch OLD MAN GANG
588
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
most important part of fighting is to position and move on field on way that enemy can not deal max dps to your ship, when you learn this you have lot of more time to do something else than die. |
Stalking Mantis
In Exile. Imperial Outlaws.
375
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Posted - 2013.11.20 13:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
Pinky Feldman wrote:Fights in eve are actually a lot slower paced than people realize. I can't count is many times people have been all like "Man we were melting primaries I could barely lock in time!" and then you go back and watch fraps they're taking 20-30s to go down.
RL Tidi....EVE is real.
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Milton Middleson
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
398
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Posted - 2013.11.20 17:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Pinky Feldman wrote:Fights in eve are actually a lot slower paced than people realize. I can't count is many times people have been all like "Man we were melting primaries I could barely lock in time!" and then you go back and watch fraps they're taking 20-30s to go down.
I blame this on Eve players being hammered all the time. |
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