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Nyxus
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Posted - 2006.02.16 14:55:00 -
[1]
I have read the specific numbers about Gang Assist mods in other threads. But they still leave me with a burning question that has yet to be answered.
Are Gang Assist mods really worth fitting?
Considering that they need a specific ship, and take up a super valuable mid slot, do any of the assist mods provide enough return on investment to make them really worthwhile over, say, another scrambler or an ECM mod?
EXAMPLES Passive Armor Resists: I thought this looked good until I read it did not stack with Adaptive nanos. New opinion? Worthless.
Damage Control: Less cap use for armor reps? Are you kidding me?
Sensor Integrity: As shown, boosting sensor strengths doesn't yield much in the way of results most times.
Active Shielding: I would guess it has stacking "issues" like the passive armor mod.
Evasive Manuevers & Rapid Deployment: This would be great for Vaga/inty squads! Except for the fact that no such squad would want or need a fat, slow BC plodding along with them.
So can someone who actually has used these in battle please enlighten me on what ones are actually worthwhile? On a cpu tight BC fitting one is going to be a challenge, but I can't seem to find one to me that would justify it's utilization.
I really want to be proven wrong. I am just having trouble finding scenarios where one of these difficult to fit, midslot hogging items would be truly worth it.
The effects just seem rather marginal. If you have used them to great effect please tell me how it was used, the situation it was useful in, and how the gang assist mod contributed more than, say, an ECM mod would have.
Thanks in advance, looking at the gang assist page is starting to depress me.
Nyxus
Macgyver can build an airplane out of gum and paper clips, but Chuck Norris can kill him and take it.
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Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.02.16 15:00:00 -
[2]
LOL they do stack... What is says is that multiple gang mods won't stack so if you have 2 BCs in your group with the same gang module only the one with the strongest effect will work.
All of them DO stack, and in a small fleet of 2-4 ships they are not worth it as the ecm or whatever would be better, but once you get 5+ larger ships then it starts paying off.
ESPACIALLY good in fleets of 50-200 as a single BC equipped with a armor gang mod is bringing tens of thousands of more armor to the field. ******************** Join Public Channel "Christian Public Access" for great fellowship and fun OMFWTFYarrBQPwn3d!!!11eleventy-one ~kieron |
SengH
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Posted - 2006.02.16 15:19:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Spartan III LOL they do stack... What is says is that multiple gang mods won't stack so if you have 2 BCs in your group with the same gang module only the one with the strongest effect will work.
All of them DO stack, and in a small fleet of 2-4 ships they are not worth it as the ecm or whatever would be better, but once you get 5+ larger ships then it starts paying off.
ESPACIALLY good in fleets of 50-200 as a single BC equipped with a armor gang mod is bringing tens of thousands of more armor to the field.
May I ask which gang mod you are using adds more armor? If you've tried this in practice you'll notice that the resistance mods are practically useless. Information and skirmish warfare mods are highly situational in their benifits. Micromanagement of them is key in any engagement. Having a visual on the battlefield is a big plus, but it is possible to do it just through listening in via TS. Trying to fight WHILE using gang mods though is not advisable... cap management is already a big problem when using multiple gang mods and trying to run a shieldbooster/armor rep/ ab while micromanaging gang mods is a pita.
Heres the lowdown... gang mods arent really battle definining in the hands of an average user. If you have specialist 3/ squad 4 and just wanna fit one and leave it running dont bother as a single mod it wont help much. But if you put them in the hands of a specialist ie. has squad command 5, specialist 5, mindlink, command ship (they are easily overpowered and can blow away the opposition. There are certain nuances in each gang mods interaction with the gang that amplifies their effect way beyond what is stated in the info box . Ie... it can say im giving an 18% increase to xx but im actually giving a 35% increase to xx. These tricks, you have to find yourself :).
As someone commented a while back.... "xxx with max skills becomes a solo pwnmobile". In this case it makes everyone in your gang a solo pwnmobile.
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Nyxus
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Posted - 2006.02.16 15:33:00 -
[4]
Spartan: Try the passive resist mod with adaptive nanos. They get hit with the nano stacking penalty as well as the regular resist penalty.
SengH: I will do some more reading. What you are saying seems to indicate that the only place gang mods are useful is:
1) Larger fleet battles.
2) On a command ship
3) on a command ships with lots of mids: ie Caldari.
The Damnation just doesnt seem like it's good enough since it lacks mids. And the relative uselessness of gang mods in gangs of less than about 10 was my exact concern. Thanks for confirming that as I know you have a tremendous amount of experience with these things.
Still kinda too bad tho.
Nyxus
Macgyver can build an airplane out of gum and paper clips, but Chuck Norris can kill him and take it.
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Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.02.16 15:34:00 -
[5]
You mean everyone in your gang becomes a non-solo gang pwnmobile.
But anyway i had though i had hear my corpm8 talking about one that increases armor. Must have just been a skill.
But even a single gang mod can be a great help to a larger fleet. ******************** Join Public Channel "Christian Public Access" for great fellowship and fun OMFWTFYarrBQPwn3d!!!11eleventy-one ~kieron |
Mr Popov
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Posted - 2006.02.16 15:39:00 -
[6]
To the OP. The resistance modules stack just like any other resistance mod.
Second, they are a HIGH slot module, not a Med slot.
And to SengH. Please explain what you mean how the +18% to xx is somehow a +35% to xx..?
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.02.16 15:39:00 -
[7]
they shouldn't stack
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire Sarmaul 4tw.
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SengH
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Posted - 2006.02.16 15:52:00 -
[8]
Edited by: SengH on 16/02/2006 15:58:48
Originally by: Mr Popov To the OP. The resistance modules stack just like any other resistance mod.
Second, they are a HIGH slot module, not a Med slot.
And to SengH. Please explain what you mean how the +18% to xx is somehow a +35% to xx..?
It just is :). Confirmed to not be a bug after asking a BH. Some of them use very funky calculations. I know of at least 3 gang mods atm that when applied in certain situations can give double or even triple the effectiveness of their stated effect in showinfo.
Edit: Yes this does mean you can get a 60%+ boost out of some of the modules when max skiled... although with one mod its currently looking like it might reach a 200% boost in effectiveness(highly specific to the person in gangs setup).
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Valea Silpha
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Posted - 2006.02.16 16:30:00 -
[9]
They are a long way from useless, just they aren't as useful as most of us first thought. Theres one for cycle time on shield boosters which i think is pretty good.
The skirmish warfare ones can be pretty nice too, but they only give a gentle effect to the situation.
However, i do think its good because if they had a MASSIVE effect on fighting BSs would alwyas be primary and thats just mean.
I have some sort of genetic defect that makes my sigs too big :( |
SengH
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Posted - 2006.02.16 16:38:00 -
[10]
Edited by: SengH on 16/02/2006 16:39:12
Originally by: Valea Silpha They are a long way from useless, just they aren't as useful as most of us first thought. Theres one for cycle time on shield boosters which i think is pretty good.
The skirmish warfare ones can be pretty nice too, but they only give a gentle effect to the situation.
However, i do think its good because if they had a MASSIVE effect on fighting BSs would alwyas be primary and thats just mean.
I disagree. The armored and siege modules require the cap reduction and cycle time reduction to be paired before it makes any noticable difference on the situation. In fact using the cycle time reduction mod alone might break some borderline setups as it increases cap/s usage. You need to use the cap reduction module to counteract that effect.
On the other hand the information warfare/skirmish warfare mods stand on their own if they are applied correctly.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.02.16 17:11:00 -
[11]
Originally by: SengH Edited by: SengH on 16/02/2006 16:39:12
Originally by: Valea Silpha They are a long way from useless, just they aren't as useful as most of us first thought. Theres one for cycle time on shield boosters which i think is pretty good.
The skirmish warfare ones can be pretty nice too, but they only give a gentle effect to the situation.
However, i do think its good because if they had a MASSIVE effect on fighting BSs would alwyas be primary and thats just mean.
I disagree. The armored and siege modules require the cap reduction and cycle time reduction to be paired before it makes any noticable difference on the situation. In fact using the cycle time reduction mod alone might break some borderline setups as it increases cap/s usage. You need to use the cap reduction module to counteract that effect.
On the other hand the information warfare/skirmish warfare mods stand on their own if they are applied correctly.
The armored warfare links obviously cannot be used "blind" but that doesn't mean that they're any less useful. The most obvious use that isn't bugged here is doing high level complexes with fewer ships (the BC can be used as firesupport - especially if a command ship).
The one warfare tree not mentioned so far is the carebear one - don't underestimate the mining foreman skill. 10% extra yield is big for low end ores, and the possible 15% extra when the mining director links come in will pay for your 200+mil t2 BCs quickly. (in 0.0 of course).
...not that I'm (that much of) a carebear of course.
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Fergus Runkle
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Posted - 2006.02.17 01:00:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sarmaul they shouldn't stack
quoted for truth
Funny thought I had was that the Shield Resist mod would be handy for a gang of armour tankers. Increase time until the shields failed. I'm very disappointed with the resist mods ..
Are the mindlinks actually in game yet ?
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Fergus Runkle
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Posted - 2006.02.17 01:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sarmaul they shouldn't stack
qtf
Funny thought I had was that the Shield Resist mod would be handy for a gang of armour tankers. Increase time until the shields failed. I'm very disappointed with the resist mods ..
Are the mindlinks actually in game yet ?
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SengH
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Posted - 2006.02.17 01:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Fergus Runkle
Originally by: Sarmaul they shouldn't stack
quoted for truth
Funny thought I had was that the Shield Resist mod would be handy for a gang of armour tankers. Increase time until the shields failed. I'm very disappointed with the resist mods ..
Are the mindlinks actually in game yet ?
yes the mindlinks are ingame.. Zrakor wasnt kidding when the mission was the hardest ingame. Probably the only mission designed that requires you to have a capital ship.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.02.17 02:03:00 -
[15]
Originally by: SengH
Originally by: Fergus Runkle
Originally by: Sarmaul they shouldn't stack
quoted for truth
Funny thought I had was that the Shield Resist mod would be handy for a gang of armour tankers. Increase time until the shields failed. I'm very disappointed with the resist mods ..
Are the mindlinks actually in game yet ?
yes the mindlinks are ingame.. Zrakor wasnt kidding when the mission was the hardest ingame. Probably the only mission designed that requires you to have a capital ship.
Aside: I think most of us don't care how hard the mission is - a PVP implant is NOT worth 1billion.
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2006.02.17 02:57:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 17/02/2006 02:57:44 I've gotta agree there. While implants should be an expensive luxury it really is taking the **** somewhere when you have an implant that costs more than half your fleet
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Fergus Runkle
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Posted - 2006.02.17 10:23:00 -
[17]
Quote: yes the mindlinks are ingame.. Zrakor wasnt kidding when the mission was the hardest ingame. Probably the only mission designed that requires you to have a capital ship.
Any chance of a clue on how to get this mission ? .. or is it one of the new COSMOS thingys.
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Kipkruide
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Posted - 2006.02.18 15:30:00 -
[18]
plus you can get some really really nasty reists on your damnation ,
92/90/92/87 % is possible with top skills and gang mods running.
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Mr Trade
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Posted - 2006.02.19 01:27:00 -
[19]
The gang mods take high slots.
At least, the ones I've fitted do, which are the armored warfare variety.
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