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Bayta Charante
Zero Atmosphere Insidious Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
That, DS should accept AU as unit when entering a max distance. I know that 1AU =~ 150 000 000 KM, buy having to make the conversion all the time is pointless. |
Sarah Stallman
International Unification
59
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Personally, I think we should abolish AU from the game completely, and stick with SI prefixes. AU is an insane unit of measurement for a people for whom Earth is basically an old legend.
Change the overviews to automatically move through kilo-, mega-, giga- & terameters. 200 AU being 29.9 TM.
It would also be nice if the overview always listed distances to three significant figures. Actually, this one is getting its own thread. |
Bayta Charante
Zero Atmosphere Insidious Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.11.15 21:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sarah Stallman wrote: It would also be nice if the overview always listed distances to three significant figures. Actually, this one is getting its own thread.
Yeah, definitely
Sarah Stallman wrote:Personally, I think we should abolish AU from the game completely, and stick with SI prefixes. AU is an insane unit of measurement for a people for whom Earth is basically an old legend.
Yeah, that's also true, it's like really twisted from the lore side if they are still using a reference from a solar system they haven't seen in 20.000 years |
Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2013.11.15 22:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
why not use Lightyears, -months, -days, -hours, -minutes, -seconds 1 AU~8 Lightminutes
but yeah a standard measuring would be nice and i would prefer either AU or in dependence of c. |
Sarah Stallman
International Unification
59
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Posted - 2013.11.15 22:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jeanne-Luise Argenau wrote:why not use Lightyears, -months, -days, -hours, -minutes, -seconds 1 AU~8 Lightminutes
but yeah a standard measuring would be nice and i would prefer either AU or in dependence of c.
There's no reason not to use a light based method but easier to just use km, Mm, Gm & Tm. Three significant figures and you'll always have the distance accurate at a glance with a less-than-1% margin of error. |
Ix Method
Barrington-Smythe Victory War Goodness
62
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Posted - 2013.11.15 22:26:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just give us a damn slider Travelling at the speed of love. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
680
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Posted - 2013.11.15 23:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sarah Stallman wrote:Personally, I think we should abolish AU from the game completely, and stick with SI prefixes.
What are you talking about AU is the standard measurement when talking about any distance with a solar system. Light measures years etc are used what talking about extra solarsystem measures i.e 'deep space'. Making all the measurements a factor of km just makes it a mess as most people can't even easily picture a km of distance in their mind but AU (being the distance from earth to the sun) is easily to imagine as we have a perfect reference in the sky. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Sarah Stallman
International Unification
59
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Posted - 2013.11.15 23:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Sarah Stallman wrote:Personally, I think we should abolish AU from the game completely, and stick with SI prefixes. What are you talking about AU is the standard measurement when talking about any distance with a solar system. Light measures years etc are used what talking about extra solarsystem measures i.e 'deep space'. Making all the measurements a factor of km just makes it a mess as most people can't even easily picture a km of distance in their mind but AU (being the distance from earth to the sun) is easily to imagine as we have a perfect reference in the sky.
No, it is not. It is a common shorthand but no actual science is done with it. All actual actual work is done in SI units as converting between systems is just asking for math errors.
There are two problems with AU in regards to EVE. The first is the interaction between local and system wide measurements, such as the D-Scan. The second is, why would New Eden adopt a standard measurement based on the best estimated average distance between Earth and Sol? |
Zella Polaris
Pitchfork Militia Catastrophic Uprising
40
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Posted - 2013.11.15 23:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
I'm cool with using AU / lightminutes / SI / horse-related measurements, as long as we get the option for switching between our preferred style and have it be consistent throughout :) This is a fighter for the Pitchfork Militia corporation. Threat level: Meh |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
183
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Posted - 2013.11.15 23:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
Better question. How would the people in EVE have any idea what the average distance between Earth and Sol was? Do they even know what Earth and Sol are? |
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Sarah Stallman
International Unification
61
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Posted - 2013.11.16 00:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
History geeks probably do, but that very thing is why I think it is insane they would. AU is literally useless as a precise measurement, it's an approximation calculated from another approximation. |
Bayta Charante
Zero Atmosphere Insidious Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.11.16 00:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
The point is not if it's AU, LYears, Lminutes, or what ever, the DS should be able to handle those inputs in the "max scan range" |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
681
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Posted - 2013.11.16 01:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sarah Stallman wrote: No, it is not. It is a common shorthand but no actual science is done with it. All actual actual work is done in SI units as converting between systems is just asking for math errors.
There are two problems with AU in regards to EVE. The first is the interaction between local and system wide measurements, such as the D-Scan. The second is, why would New Eden adopt a standard measurement based on the best estimated average distance between Earth and Sol?
True converting between the systems introduces math errors however when does any calculation relating to in system maths translate to extra system maths. Never the values you are talking about are exponetially powered so no correlation applies.
The correlation from local (on grid say) to system wide has the same exponential powered differences. So if you are wanting to scan into the larger powered scales i.e AU, then why not have the scanning tool measure that.
However using your choice above why does eve even use any SI unit for that matter? If using AU would be antiquated etc then why wouldn't they have developed a 'standard space' measurement themselves.
Ultimately a simple fix would be just have a slider and a display showing AU for when doing long scans and km for short scans easy. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Sarah Stallman
International Unification
62
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Posted - 2013.11.16 01:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
There *is* a standard space measurement. It's meters. All of the math requires it, unless you want to use different values for all of the constants.
No in-system distance in EVE will ever exceed 50 Tm, and given that all other units presented in EVE are SI it would be in keeping to switch over. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
681
|
Posted - 2013.11.16 02:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sarah Stallman wrote:There *is* a standard space measurement. It's meters. All of the math requires it, unless you want to use different values for all of the constants.
No in-system distance in EVE will ever exceed 50 Tm, and given that all other units presented in EVE are SI it would be in keeping to switch over.
Really who cares?!
The point I was making was not about the units themselves but the ability of the players to 'visualise' the distances we are talking about. 1 AU is easy to visualise as we see it every day and it imediately gives us a reference to base dastance on (regardless of whether that is correct or not) now ask someone who isn't of a scientific/mathematic or engineering mind to visualise 149,597,871km and they'll just look at you funny. What happens in the background has little to no bearing on what players would prefer seeing on the screen.
Give the Dscan a slider and I can gauruntee that 95% of all the players won't even know what distance they are scanning at. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Sarah Stallman
International Unification
62
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Posted - 2013.11.16 02:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
How does the AU give reference to anything? If you asked people on the street, they have no idea how far away the Earth is from the sun, nor of how much bigger the sun actually is. There is a sense of scale there that many people are inherently unable to comprehend.
If you want to try fun but otherwise meaningless popular polls, ask people how long it would take to get from here to the sun at the fastest speed a human has ever traveled, ignoring things like gravity for simplicity. (Hint: It's measured in months) |
BlakPhoenix
Veni Vidi Vici Reloaded
59
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Posted - 2013.11.16 02:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Meters itself is an Earth driven measurement that would hold next to no meaning for capsuleers of New Eden. Personally I'd prefer a more universal measurement to be used that also can be used for capital ships when calculating jump measurements (light years are already used here).
Regardless of the measurement that is used though, I would just like it to be consistent, easily readable and more importantly PLEASE update the directional scanner its SO frustrating to use when you're in a hurry. |
M1k3y Koontz
thorn project Surely You're Joking
405
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Posted - 2013.11.16 02:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sarah Stallman wrote:Personally, I think we should abolish AU from the game completely, and stick with SI prefixes. AU is an insane unit of measurement for a people for whom Earth is basically an old legend.
Change the overviews to automatically move through kilo-, mega-, giga- & terameters. 200 AU being 29.9 TM.
It would also be nice if the overview always listed distances to three significant figures. Actually, this one is getting its own thread.
AU is far more precise than TMs would be, 1 AU = .15TM?
AU were a standard measure of unit when colonists came from earth, so that measurement was maintained with the technology that survived the Dark Years. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Sarah Stallman
International Unification
62
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Posted - 2013.11.16 02:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
No, the SI is not earth based. While the specific value of the units is quite arbitrary, they are defined from physical phenomena that can be reproduced anywhere. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
369
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Posted - 2013.11.16 04:32:00 -
[20] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:AU is far more precise than TMs would be, 1 AU = .15TM?
AU were a standard measure of unit when colonists came from earth, so that measurement was maintained with the technology that survived the Dark Years. 1 AU = 150Gm i guess.
Lore-wise i doubt that any of ancient measurements were maintained Dark Years as all 4 races had to reinvent space flight from ground zero and there is no point in using measurement that has no relevance in EvE. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
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elitatwo
Congregatio
154
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Posted - 2013.11.16 04:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bayta Charante wrote:That, DS should accept AU as unit when entering a max distance. I know that 1AU =~ 150 000 000 KM, buy having to make the conversion all the time is pointless.
Just because I have a moment, I will repeat myself just for.
It has been asked before, use search!
The d-scanner has a maximum programming limit of 2^31 -1, which is 2 (two) gigabytes - 1, which is 2.147.483.647 (km <- HINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!),
which is a signed integer (int32) value.
Zee maximum unsigned integer (int32) value is 4 (four) gigabytes -1, which is 2^32-1, which is 4.294.967.295.
If u want to haz a diiferent 'value', u needz another datetype for it and then u cannotz calculate withz it anymore.
If u wantz to 'change' zee numers of your d-scanner u need a datatype which fiiddles with numbers, which are int, float and double.
For reasons I won't ever explain to anyone, you no wantz float or double.
THE END Stop drafting mah posts.. |
Sarah Stallman
International Unification
62
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Posted - 2013.11.16 05:09:00 -
[22] - Quote
How is "1 au" automatically more convenient than "150 Gm"?, especially when quickly looking from your overview (AU) to D-Scan (meters) and back. |
BlakPhoenix
Veni Vidi Vici Reloaded
59
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Posted - 2013.11.16 05:24:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sarah Stallman wrote:No, the SI is not earth based. While the specific value of the units is quite arbitrary, they are defined from physical phenomena that can be reproduced anywhere.
While it is reproducible anywhere, it is still based around the original size of the metre which is derived from 1Güä10,000,000 part of the quarter of a meridian, measurement by Delambre and Mechain in 1795.
The modern measurement of light through a vacuum means nothing if you take away the original meaning (you could choose any time frame for light and measure that). I also believe that the while the metric system scales well it really doesn't feel very "spacey" because we associate it with earth based measurements. It would work fine, though, even if those large measurements don't mean much to most of the player base. |
Bayta Charante
Zero Atmosphere Insidious Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.11.16 19:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
elitatwo wrote: Zee maximum unsigned integer (int32) value is 4 (four) gigabytes -1, which is 2^32-1, which is 4.294.967.295.
If u want to haz a diiferent 'value', u needz another datetype for it and then u cannotz calculate withz it anymore.
If u wantz to 'change' zee numers of your d-scanner u need a datatype which fiiddles with numbers, which are int, float and double.
For reasons I won't ever explain to anyone, you no wantz float or double.
THE END
If the game UI was programmed in C I would say that you are right, but it's not (AFAIK). I'm not saying that we should change the "maximum range" just that the "entry box" could accept any other unit and then convert it to your beloved uint32 datatype. It's not something impossible to do. |
Bayta Charante
Zero Atmosphere Insidious Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.11.16 19:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
BlakPhoenix wrote: While it is reproducible anywhere, it is still based around the original size of the metre which is derived from 1Güä10,000,000 part of the quarter of a meridian, measurement by Delambre and Mechain in 1795.
The modern measurement of light through a vacuum means nothing if you take away the original meaning (you could choose any time frame for light and measure that). I also believe that the while the metric system scales well it really doesn't feel very "spacey" because we associate it with earth based measurements. It would work fine, though, even if those large measurements don't mean much to most of the player base.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_System_of_Units
Only the Kg is earth based. But maybe not for so much: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMByI4s-D-Y |
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