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Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4476
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
A while back the cost to upgrade the clone after being podded was cut down some. 30% if I remember correctly.
Was you able to gather any data on the players in regards to this? Is there plans to have another look at them? Complete revamp?...
Complete removal? . |
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied Kiki's Delivery Service.
21
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:A while back the cost to upgrade the clone after being podded was cut down some. 30% if I remember correctly. Was you able to gather any data on the players in regards to this? Is there plans to have another look at them? Complete revamp?... Complete removal?
Sweet, lets remove one of the few remaining isk sinks in the game and inflate the economy more! That sounds terrific! If anything it should be increased. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4476
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Posted - 2013.11.16 18:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:A while back the cost to upgrade the clone after being podded was cut down some. 30% if I remember correctly. Was you able to gather any data on the players in regards to this? Is there plans to have another look at them? Complete revamp?... Complete removal? Sweet, lets remove one of the few remaining isk sinks in the game and inflate the economy more! That sounds terrific! If anything it should be increased. If you had been following the change when it happened you would have learned that because of the skill book price changes, CCP Rise flat out said they could remove the cost of clone upgrades completely if they wanted. The skill book change more than eclipsed anything for an ISK sink clone upgrades were doing which allowed them the freedom to reduce the cost in the first place.
Do try and keep up. . |
SOL Ranger
SOL.
78
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Posted - 2013.11.16 20:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fully supported, it is a relic of a mechanic and should be fixed ASAP.
The Vargur requires launcher hardpoints, following tempest tradition.
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elitatwo
Congregatio
155
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Posted - 2013.11.16 21:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Thank you for suggesting that, agreed
And if they could change some items in the LP stores a little, some items would get more attainable and used more often.
I know CCP likes isk destroyed and LP stores are great sinks to dump isk into for our benefit.
Ship insurance are also great sinks but since the rebalance of the tech1 general ship, the insurance no longer covers the ships base price, thus making the insurance null and void, so they don't benefit anyone. signature |
Ix Method
Barrington-Smythe Victory War Goodness
62
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Posted - 2013.11.16 21:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
SOL Ranger wrote:Fully supported, it is a relic of a mechanic and should be fixed ASAP. Spot on. Travelling at the speed of love. |
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied Kiki's Delivery Service.
26
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Posted - 2013.11.16 22:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Kaerakh wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:A while back the cost to upgrade the clone after being podded was cut down some. 30% if I remember correctly. Was you able to gather any data on the players in regards to this? Is there plans to have another look at them? Complete revamp?... Complete removal? Sweet, lets remove one of the few remaining isk sinks in the game and inflate the economy more! That sounds terrific! If anything it should be increased. If you had been following the change when it happened you would have learned that because of the skill book price changes, CCP Rise flat out said they could remove the cost of clone upgrades completely if they wanted. The skill book change more than eclipsed anything for an ISK sink clone upgrades were doing which allowed them the freedom to reduce the cost in the first place. Do try and keep up.
I find that intensely difficult to believe, since skill books are a one time lump sum, and clone upgrades are a constant maintenance for most players. Especially when you consider the average skill book costs less than a clone upgrade for any player older than a year. I myself pay 13 million for clone upgrades last I checked. Most skill books area far cry from that.
Do try and keep up with actual game mechanics. |
Weasel Leblanc
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
25
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Posted - 2013.11.16 23:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Kaerakh wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:A while back the cost to upgrade the clone after being podded was cut down some. 30% if I remember correctly. Was you able to gather any data on the players in regards to this? Is there plans to have another look at them? Complete revamp?... Complete removal? Sweet, lets remove one of the few remaining isk sinks in the game and inflate the economy more! That sounds terrific! If anything it should be increased. If you had been following the change when it happened you would have learned that because of the skill book price changes, CCP Rise flat out said they could remove the cost of clone upgrades completely if they wanted. The skill book change more than eclipsed anything for an ISK sink clone upgrades were doing which allowed them the freedom to reduce the cost in the first place. Do try and keep up. I find that intensely difficult to believe, since skill books are a one time lump sum, and clone upgrades are a constant maintenance for most players. Especially when you consider the average skill book costs less than a clone upgrade for any player older than a year. I myself pay 13 million for clone upgrades last I checked. Most skill books area far cry from that. Do try and keep up with actual game mechanics. Which "most players" are you talking about here? I have replaced exactly two clones, total, across three characters, one of whom dwelled in lowsec for several months. I started three years ago.
Risk averse players - who, not coincidentally, are a group of players who tend to be the ones chugging straight from the ISK faucets - do not see notable amounts of their ISK sunk into clone costs.
Raising the cost of clones would make the risk of podding unacceptable for a great portion of the population. Elimination of clone costs, on the other hand, would at least see me, if not a notably larger portion of the capsuleer population, gleefully jump cloning into no-implant sucker bodies and roaming back into lowsec to watch player ships explode. The production of ships is also an ISK sink, by the way.
Do try and keep up with how players actually react to game mechanics. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
4479
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Posted - 2013.11.16 23:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote:I find that intensely difficult to believe, since skill books are a one time lump sum, and clone upgrades are a constant maintenance for most players. Especially when you consider the average skill book costs less than a clone upgrade for any player older than a year. I myself pay 13 million for clone upgrades last I checked. Most skill books area far cry from that.
Do try and keep up with actual game mechanics.
Oh really?
Like I said before Kaerakh; do try and keep up. . |
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied Kiki's Delivery Service.
26
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Posted - 2013.11.17 00:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:Kaerakh wrote:I find that intensely difficult to believe, since skill books are a one time lump sum, and clone upgrades are a constant maintenance for most players. Especially when you consider the average skill book costs less than a clone upgrade for any player older than a year. I myself pay 13 million for clone upgrades last I checked. Most skill books area far cry from that.
Do try and keep up with actual game mechanics. Oh really? Like I said before Kaerakh; do try and keep up.
Oh, really? http://eve-kill.net/?a=home The last 22925 pod kills(multiply the five displayed by pages you get the number) in the last 7 days I say again 7 DAYS beg to differ with both your hearsay and that of a dev. I just had a nullsec player quote that he pays 45 million isk per death. In nullsec it is common place to get into situations where your pod cannot escape. It's just the way the game is.
Soooo, like I said before Marlona Sky; do try and keep up.
Weasel Leblanc wrote: Lots of stuff about how he doesn't play the game anymore.
Obviously you don't get into combat often. |
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Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
687
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Posted - 2013.11.17 01:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Clone costs = isk sink.
Average clone cost across the game would have to far outweigh isk spent on skills books I would have thought. (Would love to see some figures on this from CCP) Skill books are a one off cost whereas clone updating is a constant maintenance cost.
Insurance btw is NOT an isk sink. It introduces isk into the game. eg pay 150k for platinum get 350k back for your dead rifter etc hence NOT an isk sink. Get rid of insurance IMO would be better overall for eve economy.
Isk is by far way too easy to get in game atm thats why we have so many titans and supers running around. I remember in 2003 playing for about 2 months just to afford my first arbitrator. Some of the figures that people quote for some of their isk making is just crazy. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
374
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Posted - 2013.11.17 02:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote: I just had a nullsec player quote that he pays 45 million isk per death. In nullsec it is common place to get into situations where your pod cannot escape. It's just the way the game is.
Ask that friend of yours if he would fly more (and die more frequently as a result) if clone costs were adjusted.
It was stated multiple times that problem with clone costs is tied to their progressing inefficiency: SP/ISK ratio gets worse the better clone you get. Should that ratio be constant across all clone levels (lets say 10 SP/ISK) the problem would be pretty much non-existent.
Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
687
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 02:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Kaerakh wrote: I just had a nullsec player quote that he pays 45 million isk per death. In nullsec it is common place to get into situations where your pod cannot escape. It's just the way the game is.
Ask that friend of yours if he would fly more (and die more frequently as a result) if clone costs were adjusted. It was stated multiple times that problem with clone costs is tied to their progressing inefficiency: SP/ISK ratio gets worse the better clone you get. Should that ratio be constant across all clone levels (lets say 10 SP/ISK) the problem would be pretty much non-existent.
Of course sp/isk ratio gets worse. It follows the principles of diminished returns like everything else in eve. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
374
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 02:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Of course sp/isk ratio gets worse. It follows the principles of diminished returns like everything else in eve. There is no reason for diminishing returns for clone costs as it inhibits PvP choices for older players: it is very unlikely that player would participate in t1-t2 frig roam for fun when he pays 30-40mil per clone alone and 10-12mil for fully fitted ship. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Lyra Gerie
Bareback Pornstars Carthage Empires
10
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Posted - 2013.11.17 02:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
I think it should still be there but it definitely needs to be looked at again. It would be nice if you had to register properly for a new clone which would be a cheap flat rate regardless of skill points, something like 2-8 million isk. If you forget your clone you pay a large fee as they have to expedite your revival when they had no registered clones available. This is when you pay a premium price for a new clone. If done twice in a row skill points are lost like the current system.
So; podded > register clone > 5m isk > podded > repeat or podded > forgot to register > 50m isk > podded > repeat or register a damn clone
Numbers are for example purposes only and do not reflect any balanced state. This keeps the isk sink and punishes stupid players without invalidating the system in place. It gives some leeway requiring you to be podded twice without registering a new clone before you lose skill points. Because losing SP is literally a cost to the player in cash as it takes in game time to relearn what was lost. This will help out newer players who are not yet familiar with the current system and older players during large battles where reshipping and reentering the fight can mean the difference between sov and no sov. |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
687
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 02:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote:Of course sp/isk ratio gets worse. It follows the principles of diminished returns like everything else in eve. There is no reason for diminishing returns for clone costs as it inhibits PvP choices for older players: it is very unlikely that player would participate in t1-t2 frig roam for fun when he pays 30-40mil per clone alone and 10-12mil for fully fitted ship.
Really?
Isk value has been shown time and time again that it has no overall effect on whether something gets used and lost in eve, same goes for clone costs. Look at the number of titans/supers etc. There are so many of them people are queing up to fight with them.
High SP toon have much mor capacity to make isk v lower sp toons. this alone reduces the 'cost effect' of clone for higher sp toon by a fair margin.
Really people whining about clone costs are just being greedy plain and simple. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
687
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 02:49:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lyra Gerie wrote: punishes stupid players
By far one of the best things about EVE IMO!
Otherwise we would just have wow in space. That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
374
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 03:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Lyra Gerie wrote: punishes stupid players By far one of the best things about EVE IMO! Otherwise we would just have wow in space. So by your definition veteran player = stupid player?
Quote:High SP toon have much mor capacity to make isk v lower sp toons. this alone reduces the 'cost effect' of clone for higher sp toon by a fair margin. Is a superficial but common nonsense. 2-3 month old character can make isk on par with 5+ year old veteran (90% as effectively). Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Anomaly One
32
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Posted - 2013.11.17 03:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
removal ? no way.
revamp, maybe, there should still be consequences for pod deaths, don't say implants since you can bypass em via jump clones. *~~*running my own mission and have some class bully run up and blow me up because they think its funny, then give the excuses that I was just firing fireworks at you*~~* |
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied Kiki's Delivery Service.
26
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Posted - 2013.11.17 04:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote:Lyra Gerie wrote: punishes stupid players By far one of the best things about EVE IMO! Otherwise we would just have wow in space. So by your definition veteran player = stupid player? Quote:High SP toon have much mor capacity to make isk v lower sp toons. this alone reduces the 'cost effect' of clone for higher sp toon by a fair margin. Is a superficial but common nonsense. 2-3 month old character can make isk on par with 5+ year old veteran (90% as effectively). Let me know when you can train a character capable of running a C5 wormhole with full capital escalations with 3 months of training. That's utter non-sense. Clearly you never leave the dock in Jita 4-4. Otherwise you'd know what a load that is. |
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Taoist Dragon
Bastion of Mad Behaviour
687
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Posted - 2013.11.17 04:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote:Lyra Gerie wrote: punishes stupid players By far one of the best things about EVE IMO! Otherwise we would just have wow in space. So by your definition veteran player = stupid player?
Show me where in my quote I mentioned veteren players?
I deliberately removed any reference to the age of characters in my quote. It was purely an expression of one of the best things about EVE, that it punishes stupid players.
But feel free to quote me again and try to put words into my arguments that just aren't there because you have no reasonable comeback for the points we make as veteran (stupid?? ) players That is the Way, the Tao.
Balance is everything.
http://taoistdragon.blogspot.com.au/ |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
374
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Posted - 2013.11.17 04:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kaerakh wrote: Let me know when you can train a character capable of running a C5 wormhole with full capital escalations with 3 months of training. That's utter non-sense. Clearly you never leave the dock in Jita 4-4. Otherwise you'd know what a load that is. Possible if you are that logi / loki / noctis / miner / hauler / scanner pilot. Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied Kiki's Delivery Service.
26
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Posted - 2013.11.17 04:26:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Kaerakh wrote: Let me know when you can train a character capable of running a C5 wormhole with full capital escalations with 3 months of training. That's utter non-sense. Clearly you never leave the dock in Jita 4-4. Otherwise you'd know what a load that is. Possible if you are that logi / loki / noctis / miner / hauler / scanner pilot.
I'm not sure if this even merits a response. |
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
374
|
Posted - 2013.11.17 04:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
Taoist Dragon wrote:Show me where in my quote I mentioned veteren players? I deliberately removed any reference to the age of characters in my quote. It was purely an expression of one of the best things about EVE, that it punishes stupid players. But feel free to quote me again and try to put words into my arguments that just aren't there because you have no reasonable comeback for the points we make as veteran (stupid?? ) players i thought it was a matter of simple logic. You are saying that EvE punishing stupid players is good (and i agree with it), but this thread is about EvE punishing veteran players and you are in opposition. For what exactly should veteran players be punished with more expensive and less efficient clone upgrades? Opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks. |
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied Kiki's Delivery Service.
26
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Posted - 2013.11.17 04:47:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:Taoist Dragon wrote:Show me where in my quote I mentioned veteren players? I deliberately removed any reference to the age of characters in my quote. It was purely an expression of one of the best things about EVE, that it punishes stupid players. But feel free to quote me again and try to put words into my arguments that just aren't there because you have no reasonable comeback for the points we make as veteran (stupid?? ) players i thought it was a matter of simple logic. You are saying that EvE punishing stupid players is good (and i agree with it), but this thread is about EvE punishing veteran players and you are in opposition. For what exactly should veteran players be punished with more expensive and less efficient clone upgrades?
Whoa, little biased jealousy going on in that post. Punishing vets is bad business, game design, and PR mixed into one. Pretty sure no one wants that. Plus EVE is a game that continually caters to players who continually play(IE vets). It's directly contrary to CCP's established business model, and general interests to upset their established player base.
Plus pleasing to the established player base has been their focus since forever. In combination with the sandbox, it's proven to be very effective as EVE is still growing as an MMO after 10 years. I'm pretty sure no other game can claim that. |
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