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Tensa
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Posted - 2006.02.18 10:40:00 -
[1]
ok, first the specs of the covert op ships for those of you that don't know them:
Anathema - Amarr Frigate Skill Bonus: 10% reduction in Small Energy Turret capacitor need and 10% Small Energy Turret optimal range bonus per level 3/4/3 hi/mid/low Cheetah - Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Projectile Turret damage and 10% bonus to Small Projectile Turret optimal range per level 3/4/3 hi/mid/low Helios - Gallente Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Small Hybrid Turret damage and 10% bonus to Scout Drone Thermal damage per level 2/5/3
Buzzard - Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Missile Kinetic Damage and 5% bonus to Missile Launcher rate of fire per level 3/5/2
And the skill that they all have in common - Covert Ops Skill Bonus: -96% to -100% reduction in Cloaking Device CPU use per level and 10% reduction to duration/activation time of modules requiring Astrometrics per level
Ok, now we have the facts..time for the opinions
It was very very good what CCP has done to make covert ops more useful(adding the reduction in scan probes analyze time) but it seems that it was rushed out without any other thought for the ships. Anyone who pilots a covert op knows it's silly to try and do combat in a covert op. It's also almost impossible fitting-wise. With covops new role with scan probes now every ship will have 2 high slots guaranteed to be used for non-combat purposes(scan probe launcher and covop cloaking device). Now we have the problem. As you see ALL of the covops ships have ridiculous combat bonus! Look at the helios with 2 hi slots. It's able to use 0 guns but it has a combat bonus for it! I also hear about the difficulty in fitting the less technical races ships(you know who you are) with a covop cloak and a scan probe. This is not a problem. Some races are just naturally better at some things and should remain that way. Now i have a couple of ideas to make cov ops useless bonii more...useful
All covop ships are built with a base design from a t1 frig. Cheetah = Vigil, Buzzard = Heron, Helios = Maulus, Anathema = Crucifier, which means there should be something similiar. I think they have the wrong similarities. Instead of having the combat bonii, they should have the EWar of the t1 frigs bonii except for the buzzard. Buzzard comes from heron(instead of griffin) so it should keep it's semi-useless combat bonus(hey you win some you lose some caldari). Buzzard is already the easiest of the 4 to fit so it would be balanced. But this is just 1/2 of the combat bonii. The other one should be changed to something along the lines of Cheetah = 5% lower sig radius per level; Buzzard = 2% reduction to duration/activation of modules requiring astronometrics(more bonus); Anathema = maybe 5% to resistances per lvl; Helios = 10% effectiveness of electronic warfare drones per level. This way buzzard would be the fastest scanner(by 10%at max skill) due to their advanced technology, Cheetah would stay with the minmatar mentality being the hardest to target and hit, Helios could have some versatility with their 1 small drone slot, and anathema...well i don't know what anathema could have, maybe one of you can make a better suggestion.
Also allowing the covops to use non-aggressive, non-propulsion mods(scanners, targetters, boosters) while cloaked would be good too. Covops should be masters of intel gathering and doing this will allow them to do it without being utterly destroyed. Or you can have covops have a built in passive targetter while cloak and then when aggressing they drop the cloak.
Reduce the recloak time(i know this is being done but just a reminder :P)
Allow cov ops(and t1 scout) ships to face a direction, and warp in increments of 1au(right click and you'll get a dialog box that says "Warp --au". Doing this will allow us to overcome shortcomings of scan probes. This will make tougher safespots but they will still be bustable.
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Trance Omega
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Posted - 2006.02.18 12:21:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Trance Omega on 18/02/2006 12:23:18
Originally by: Tensa well i don't know what anathema could have, maybe one of you can make a better suggestion.
As you correcty wrote the anathema is based on the crucifier design ... now the crucifier is (supposed to be) an EW-frigate and has quite a lot of CPU compared to other Amarr frigates. Surprisingly (or maybe not) you get in dire CPU-problems when trying to fit a cloak AND a scan probe launcher on the Anathema. That's why I'd suggest giving it a slight CPU-reduction bonus for fitting probe launchers (maybe -2% /level) instead of the resistance bonus you suggested. Armor resistance is pretty useless on a ship with which Originally by: Tensa it's silly to try and do combat
and is actually used on the punisher designs already.
I agree with your other suggestions except the last one because allowing ships the warp a certain au distance would make long range scan probes even more useless than they are now.
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jonies
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Posted - 2006.02.18 17:32:00 -
[3]
As to your comments on the helios, I would like to add just one thing . The helios is a good ship if you have the skills trained. But the drone bay is by far to small. I think it should be increased by 30% or so. Due to the fact that it is worthless to use up your last high with a gun and not scan probe. But I really like the idea using passive targeting in cloak mode, the abilty to scan a target without revealing you are there. Considering that most people that fly covert ops dont engage in combat. Also the idea to change a covert-ops warp speed is a must.
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Shodana
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Posted - 2006.02.18 18:49:00 -
[4]
wanna beef the coverts... they are fine.
Fix the damn scan probes please. The mostly 2d scanning in a 3d environment is lame. They need to scan either spherically or cylindrically for a height eqaul to it's rating above and below where the probe is released. Make 3au snoops have 3au radius, not diameter, and scan 3au up and down. For 12's and so on... all of them need to have it as a radius, not diameter which only totally nerfs their purpose.
The bonus to scan probe analyzing time is still too slow to pin down someone with any effectiveness unless they are simply that stupid to sit in one spot for a minute.
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Lienzo
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Posted - 2006.02.19 02:01:00 -
[5]
The cheetah is by far the best with +100m/s over the anathema and the same mids.
Two of the others have more cap, but needing to travel quickly isn't usually that high of a priority.
The cheetah is definitely the best stalker with 2x nanos and 1x cpu possible .
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Tensa
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Posted - 2006.02.19 22:42:00 -
[6]
I totally agree with the scan probes needing fix but that is a total different post topic and I didn't want to dilute this topic with it. Also i didn't want any of the scan probe elitist hijacking with their "don't take the skill out of using scan probes" blah blah crap . Scan probes are broken imo, If you are an expert prober you cannot get around the only 1au up/down problem. There have been quite a few times where i should have found something but couldn't because it wasn't on my plane. That's why i brought up the "warp in a direction" idea. That would allow cov ops/scout frigs the ability to get around this problem.
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PMolkenthin
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Posted - 2006.02.20 11:28:00 -
[7]
I like the idea of passive targetting while cloaked and being able to use cargo and ship scanners undetected.
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