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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Jarod Garamonde
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
708
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Posted - 2013.11.20 00:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
Bernie Nator wrote:I would appreciate it if ISIS told me whether or not flying a specific boat would potentially put me in the DANGER ZONE!
That's how we get ants. That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right... |
Aritani Rimsan
Bladed Wings Protectorate Some Say
0
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Posted - 2013.11.20 01:19:00 -
[32] - Quote
Love the ISIS as well. Very neat and easy to read.
I too am wondering however why one of my clients the icon appears as a cartoon tree with a smiley face. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1558
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Posted - 2013.11.20 01:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
I must say, this is an awesome feature, I really like it.
The masteries took me a few minutes to figure out, so they aren't as intuitive as they could be, but I have to say it's fairly cool.
If this is what we end up replacing certificates with, I will be very happy. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Roofdog
F-I-N-K PROPERTY Northern Associates.
0
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Posted - 2013.11.20 01:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
I do like ISIS, it looks awesome.
only a few little things i noticed on checking out the ships i can fly.
apperently on logi's like guadians and scimitars you need Advanced Target Management Level V. which would mean you got the skills for 12 targets. only the ship can only target 10. same with carriers. only way to get more targets is an auto targetter but thats kindoff useless on such a ship.
on Jumpfreigters it says you need capital ships lvl V for max mastery, but according to the discription of the skill it doesn't do anything for those ships. since you don't need the cap ship skill for flying a JF.
so i'm wondering does the cap ship skill do anything for my JF or is the mastery thing wrong?
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KnowUsByTheDead
Old Seers Of Arbitrary Stimulation
718
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Posted - 2013.11.20 01:36:00 -
[35] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Tech 3 are a royal pain in the in the rear exhaust pipe...
Can I get an ISD here?
We have this gentleman bypassing the language filter.
Just saying.
*edit*
And I also appreciate the ISIS system. It is a great diagram for the flow of progression in the game.
My only problem with it, is that older players do not really have a use for it. We have, after years of playing, optimized "Show Info" usage, lol.
But I can advocate anything that will help a new player on his or her track through the game. After all, it is a huge improvement over the cert system. Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the comedian is the only thing that makes sense. -á-á-á-á-á-á-á |
Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
375
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Posted - 2013.11.20 01:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
I know I'm a crap pilot but I never knew how bad until ISIS.
150m skillpoints mostly in pvp skills, and yet the only mastery I have is shuttles....
I can't even be an elite Velator pilot after 8 years playing - I'm thinking of biomassing myself and starting again the shame is so bad.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
21
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Posted - 2013.11.20 02:06:00 -
[37] - Quote
Vyktor Abyss wrote:I can't even be an elite Velator pilot after 8 years playing - I'm thinking of biomassing myself and starting again the shame is so bad.
You sir are a smart man. Seems like a great idea. Just to make sure you start again from scratch, can I have our stuff?
Also CCP, nice job on the ISIS and I'm confident that further refinement will make it even better.
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Anomaly One
43
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Posted - 2013.11.20 02:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
just logged in, really great job, loved the music. *~~*running my own mission and have some class bully run up and blow me up because they think its funny, then give the excuses that I was just firing fireworks at you*~~* |
Jane Schereau
59
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Posted - 2013.11.20 02:31:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:ElQuirko wrote:No subsystem skills necessary for mastery of the Proteus. At all. I call shenanigans? Tech 3 are a royal pain in the in the rear exhaust pipe to show properly in the ISIS, because of their modular nature. I just wanted to remove them from the game while laughing maniacally, but various Dev quickly attached me in some closet while kicking me in the face. We would like to show the Tech 3 ships properly in the future, but that's going to take some effort.
First of all, good work on ISIS. Yes, T3s seem a bit lacking in ISIS. Some suggestions for T3s:
- Add additional rows to indicate level on each subsystem (like faction ships have 2 for every spaceship command skills).
- Attach Certificates to subsystems. On ISIS, show the mastery for all subsystems. For individual ships, show the mastery level of the subsystems fitted.
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Jer'ith Bodas
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.11.20 04:21:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ripmond wrote:BUT! It really needs better multi monitor support. I want to be able to center the tree on my main monitor, The way it is now, most of the info is getting lost in the bezel 'gutter'.
^This
I like ISIS, I would love ISIS it I could see it centered on my main monitor. |
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Vald Tegor
Empyrean Guard Tactical Narcotics Team
79
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Posted - 2013.11.20 07:55:00 -
[41] - Quote
Roofdog wrote: apperently on logi's like guadians and scimitars you need Advanced Target Management Level V. which would mean you got the skills for 12 targets. only the ship can only target 10. same with carriers. only way to get more targets is an auto targetter but thats kindoff useless on such a ship.
Likewise, you need the skills to lock 7 targets to master a T1 frigate that can only lock 5 |
Irya Boone
TIPIAKS
272
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Posted - 2013.11.20 09:28:00 -
[42] - Quote
and for gallente energy grid upgrade , to master ships , please ccp ... and all 4 drone specialization to master a drone boat NO one use calda or amarr drone !!! RENAME null sec systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome. Need Black Ops be able to FIT cover ops cloaking device !!! |
John Holt
Apollo Technologies Inc
16
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Posted - 2013.11.20 09:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
Thumbs up Pirates are scum, Null sec is full of blobs and unnecesary violence, so I'm just a Privateer wandering around High and Low Sec.
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3046
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Posted - 2013.11.20 09:50:00 -
[44] - Quote
Roofdog wrote:I do like ISIS, it looks awesome.
only a few little things i noticed on checking out the ships i can fly.
apperently on logi's like guadians and scimitars you need Advanced Target Management Level V. which would mean you got the skills for 12 targets. only the ship can only target 10. same with carriers. only way to get more targets is an auto targetter but thats kindoff useless on such a ship.
on Jumpfreigters it says you need capital ships lvl V for max mastery, but according to the discription of the skill it doesn't do anything for those ships. since you don't need the cap ship skill for flying a JF.
so i'm wondering does the cap ship skill do anything for my JF or is the mastery thing wrong?
Those are good points, I'm looking at Certificates / Masteries right now and changing them not to give you guys inaccurate information. I've seen from a Reddit thread that industrials and logistics ships require WU and AWU despite having no use for weapons, I'm also looking at removing that (for those with accounts there feel free to link that post to them). |
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Karynn Denton
Clan Katanga Caravan
12
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Posted - 2013.11.20 10:02:00 -
[45] - Quote
I like it very much!
I noticed that I only had level 2 Mastery in my beloved Minmatar frigates and found that I was lacking a few skills that I didn't know even existed!
It looks and behaves very smooth and slick too. |
bowlofmilk
Aliastra Gallente Federation
28
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Posted - 2013.11.20 10:11:00 -
[46] - Quote
Why do i have a tree ?
[url]http://imgur.com/SikQrQW[/url] |
Wooly Akachi
Capital Storm. JIHADASQUAD
15
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Posted - 2013.11.20 10:29:00 -
[47] - Quote
I really like this. It's takes only a quick look to see what I need to train to up my masteries/certs :P
Just need to have it so it works a bit better around the chat window ( make the blank area around the edge bigger? so you can drag a bit further) |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
302
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Posted - 2013.11.20 10:34:00 -
[48] - Quote
+ ISIS makes it easier for people to see the progression tree and all the awesome stuff how to fly, along with what they need to fly it.
- Some choices there are just plain misleading and bad. An example would be that the Nemesis ISIS field advises... armour compensation skills. On a two-lowslot stealth bomber. Others are just dubious, like medium turrets for Arazu (it has some merit to it, but implying someone actually needs a gun to do his job in an Arazu well is misleading.)
Other than that - really good system, vast improvement from old certs. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
Frozen Chief
Hedion University Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2013.11.20 10:42:00 -
[49] - Quote
What the hell does Warp Core Operation V have to do with mastering my Myrmidon? Seriously?
Next thing you know you'll need Science V, since you know, you might fit a tractor beam one day. |
March rabbit
True Horde
885
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Posted - 2013.11.20 10:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
opened ISIS and found that i can use Command Ships without Leadership skills!
Love this toy Null people are like a kid who broke his own toy and is jealous about another kid that still has a new, shiny toy. In the kid's mind, the only way to happiness is to grab that shiny toy and break it so both kids are in equal misery.
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TokPhobia
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.11.20 10:54:00 -
[51] - Quote
When first using ISIS I had the tendency to try to zoom in by scrolling up (away from me) and zoom out by scrolling down (towards me), however I had to scroll in reverse in order to zoom the way I wanted to. I asked two friends who don't play EVE to try to zoom in or out in ISIS and they both tried to scroll up to zoom in and scroll down to zoom out.
Is it just us or is that how zooming via scrolling normally works? Should zooming via scrolling be inverted?
Yes, I know this is nitpicking and ISIS is really cool, but I'm curious if other people had the same feeling. |
imariel
Greuh Sacerdotium Echoes of Nowhere
0
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:28:00 -
[52] - Quote
Yesterday was the day i stopped playing Eve to play Isis...
I love it... |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
852
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:32:00 -
[53] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Roofdog wrote:I do like ISIS, it looks awesome.
only a few little things i noticed on checking out the ships i can fly.
apperently on logi's like guadians and scimitars you need Advanced Target Management Level V. which would mean you got the skills for 12 targets. only the ship can only target 10. same with carriers. only way to get more targets is an auto targetter but thats kindoff useless on such a ship.
on Jumpfreigters it says you need capital ships lvl V for max mastery, but according to the discription of the skill it doesn't do anything for those ships. since you don't need the cap ship skill for flying a JF.
so i'm wondering does the cap ship skill do anything for my JF or is the mastery thing wrong?
Those are good points, I'm looking at Certificates / Masteries right now and changing them not to give you guys inaccurate information. I've seen from a Reddit thread that industrials and logistics ships require WU and AWU despite having no use for weapons, I'm also looking at removing that (for those with accounts there feel free to link that post to them). Actually you just need to fit one Signal Amplifier II for 12 target locks.
I would love to have the ISIS in a separate window just like the fitting window and any other window. Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
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Mark Cato
We Are Not Good Talons Of Blood
0
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:39:00 -
[54] - Quote
I had high hopes for ISIS, but the final product has me deeply disappointed. Rather than creating genuinely useful skill paths for players to train, CCP has bloated the system with unnecessary skills that often have little relation the the ship that the player wants to fly. I realize that there will never be complete agreement between CCP and players (or even between players) which skills are most useful for which ship, but it seems CCP hasn't even tried to make ISIS relevant. In its current form it is merely more bloat to the game and is marginally useful at best, and actually harmful at worst.
Since Interceptors are very popular right now, presumably a lot of players will be turning to ISIS to learn which skills they should be training to fly an Interceptor. For my argument I will be using the Ares mastery as an example, though the arguments themselves are applicable to many, if not most ships.
I have the following complaints against ISIS:
1. Mastery levels do not include ship skills: The mastery system ignores the importance of ship skills to being able to fly a ship. In my Interceptors example without Interceptors trained to at least III (really it should be IV) you are essentially just flying an overpriced T1 frig. It doesn't matter if your Mastery is all the way to V, without a decent level in Interceptors you'd be better off sticking to the T1 variant! If ISIS were genuinely useful it would reflect that fact by encouraging a potential Interceptor pilot to train Interceptors III/IV right off the bat.
2. Master levels are bloated with skills that are marginally useful at best: Lets look at the Ares. At mastery level V you are encouraged to train all armour tanking skills to level V. OK...I suppose you can, in theory, armour tank an Ares. But that ignores what the Ares is, what it's for, and how players actually fly it.
As a fleet Inty the Ares is essentially a point with a micro warp drive strapped to it. It is usually only tanked with a damage control, and rarely with a shield extender. The Ares mainly relies on speed and agility to survive which makes armour tanking a bad idea (fit nanos or overdrives instead). Rather than recognizing this CCP arrogantly ignores how players fly it, and insist against all reason that it's an armour tanker!
A newer player interested in flying an Ares is now encouraged to train skills that are useless for the ship that they intend to fly. Yes I know it's only a 'guideline' but not every Eve player is a EFT warrior. Some players just want a simple guide, and you've gone and done the opposite. Worse yet, your status as the game's designer legitimates these bad ideas, so that a newer player will simply trust ISIS and waste months of his time training unnecessary skills.
3. Mastery levels don't adequately distinguish between high priority and low priority skills: Among other things Ares mastery V includes Repair Systems V and Signature Analysis V. At mastery IV these skills are all at IV etc. What's the problem here?
As I've argued before the Ares is not an armour tanker, so having Repair Systems V is already a bad idea, but OK, somebody might armour tank an Ares, so it isn't completely irrelevant, right? That said, the Ares is a fast tackle ship. I tell prospective Interceptor pilots to training Signature Analysis V right away because it reduces the lock time to get a point on another ship! It is an absolutely essential skill for a tackle pilot (and a short train at that). Signature Analysis V should be II-III mastery skill, yet CCP puts it all the way in mastery V! Worse yet, this vital skill is stuck in mastery V with Repair Systems V. For an Interceptor pilot those two skills are NOT equal. Yet ISIS makes no distinction that one is much more important than the other.
Conclusion: The ISIS system is promising, but ultimately fails due to a) CCPs refusal to make realistic certificates based on how ships are actually fitted and flown in Eve, b) the inclusion of lengthy, but only marginally relevant trains that will have new players spending months training without actually becoming much better at the ship they intend to fly and c) not distinguishing that some skills are more important to certain ships than other. Certificates and masteries should not be 'bling' that players train merely so they can say they did, but genuinely useful guides for new players, and more experienced players training into unfamiliar ships.
Either improve this system, or allow corporations and alliances to make their own certificates masteries. As it is you are hurting, not helping, players who will be relying on this system. |
Kaskane
Watschn Inc. The Unthinkables
4
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Roofdog wrote:I do like ISIS, it looks awesome.
only a few little things i noticed on checking out the ships i can fly.
apperently on logi's like guadians and scimitars you need Advanced Target Management Level V. which would mean you got the skills for 12 targets. only the ship can only target 10. same with carriers. only way to get more targets is an auto targetter but thats kindoff useless on such a ship.
on Jumpfreigters it says you need capital ships lvl V for max mastery, but according to the discription of the skill it doesn't do anything for those ships. since you don't need the cap ship skill for flying a JF.
so i'm wondering does the cap ship skill do anything for my JF or is the mastery thing wrong?
Those are good points, I'm looking at Certificates / Masteries right now and changing them not to give you guys inaccurate information. I've seen from a Reddit thread that industrials and logistics ships require WU and AWU despite having no use for weapons, I'm also looking at removing that (for those with accounts there feel free to link that post to them).
Signal Amplifier II also adds +2 max lockable targets. This module wouldn't be uselsess on a logistic because of its scan resolution and lock range bonus. Director of nExperience Industries Inc. located in Kaimon - The Citadel |
Sevendeadly Sins
Meatshield Bastards The Bastards.
18
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:56:00 -
[56] - Quote
Bernie Nator wrote:I would appreciate it if ISIS told me whether or not flying a specific boat would potentially put me in the DANGER ZONE! Don't do it you'll summon th-
DANGER ZONE!
I warned you. |
Mark Cato
We Are Not Good Talons Of Blood
0
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:59:00 -
[57] - Quote
Kaskane wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Roofdog wrote:I do like ISIS, it looks awesome.
only a few little things i noticed on checking out the ships i can fly.
apperently on logi's like guadians and scimitars you need Advanced Target Management Level V. which would mean you got the skills for 12 targets. only the ship can only target 10. same with carriers. only way to get more targets is an auto targetter but thats kindoff useless on such a ship.
on Jumpfreigters it says you need capital ships lvl V for max mastery, but according to the discription of the skill it doesn't do anything for those ships. since you don't need the cap ship skill for flying a JF.
so i'm wondering does the cap ship skill do anything for my JF or is the mastery thing wrong?
Those are good points, I'm looking at Certificates / Masteries right now and changing them not to give you guys inaccurate information. I've seen from a Reddit thread that industrials and logistics ships require WU and AWU despite having no use for weapons, I'm also looking at removing that (for those with accounts there feel free to link that post to them). Signal Amplifier II also adds +2 max lockable targets. This module wouldn't be uselsess on a logistic because of its scan resolution and lock range bonus.
It just seems to be useless to turn a system that is meant to be a guide for confused players into a 'dump all skills because this skill might be useful one in a billion times' (which currently it is). Worse yet the system makes little distinction between high and low priority skills, so Advanced Target Management V will be right up there in mastery V along with Logistics V. Guess which one is more important? |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3048
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Posted - 2013.11.20 12:07:00 -
[58] - Quote
1. Mastery do not include ship skills by design, since they are tied to Certificates, not Spaceship Command skills. Again, the whole point is to allow the user to see which hulls he could fly with good skills even if hasn't trained the main requirements for it. For instance, if I have trained for the Incursus, I know I may be good in Catalyst or Federation Navy Comet without having them unlocked. It allows the user to set high level goals.
2. Mastery V are supposed to be elite. Having all the skills that are even marginally useful maxed is the whole point of them. It's at this point we want the user to feel he / she has completed everything tied with the ship he's flying, including things like all Tech 2 drone specialization for drone ships for instance. It isn't supposed to be fast or easy to reach - EVE is not about instant gratification. For new players or even mid-term users, Masteries 1-4 is where the meat of the content is I agree some skills aren't needed though, which is why I'm tweaking them as we speak, but Masteries V aren't supposed to be easily reached, so train harder.
3. That is a good point, may want to look into that.
As mentioned above, ISIS and the new Certificates are meant to be a guideline for new players, a progression tool for the average Joe or a completion tool for maniac OCD people like me. It cannot be made to tailor every single need for the advanced user in all cases, unfortunately, that's what Corporation Certificate would be for. We aren't planning on working on those straight away, but they definitely are in our to-do list. |
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Mark Cato
We Are Not Good Talons Of Blood
0
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Posted - 2013.11.20 12:08:00 -
[59] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:1. Mastery do not include ship skills by design, since they are tied to Certificates, not Spaceship Command skills. Again, the whole point is to allow the user to see which hulls he could fly with good skills even if hasn't trained the main requirements for it. For instance, if I have trained for the Incursion, I know I may be good in Catalyst or Federation Navy Comet without having them unlocked. It allows the user to set high level goals. 2. Mastery V are supposed to be elite. Having all the skills that are even marginally useful maxed is the whole point. It's at this point we want the user to feel he / she has completed everything tied with the ship he's flying, including things like all Tech 2 drone specialization for drone ships for instance. It isn't supposed to be easy to reach. For new players or even mid-term users, Masteries 1-4 is where the meat of the content is I agree some skills aren't needed though, which is why I'm tweaking them as we speak, but Masteries V aren't supposed to be easily reached, so train harder. 3. That is a good point, may want to look into that. As mentioned above, ISIS and the new Certificates are meant to be a guideline for new players, progression tool for the average Joe or a completion tool. It cannot be made to tailor every single need for the advanced user in all cases, unfortunately, that's what Corporation Certificate would be for. We aren't planning on working on those straight away, but they definitely are in our to-do list.
I appreciate your response! Don't misunderstand the tone of my post. I'm annoyed about the details, but I think ISIS is a fantastic (and pretty!) initiative in general. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P C C P Alliance
3048
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Posted - 2013.11.20 12:11:00 -
[60] - Quote
Mark Cato wrote: I appreciate your response! Don't misunderstand the tone of my post. I'm annoyed about the details, but I think ISIS is a fantastic (and pretty!) initiative in general.
No worries, your feedback was constructive |
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