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Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
601
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
So whats the entire story about RvB and Goons taking the poco's around Jita ? I know parts of it, but there must be more nice details
Tora You either love us or we hate you. |
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition Insurance Fraud.
346
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Posted - 2013.11.20 11:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:So whats the entire story about RvB and Goons taking the poco's around Jita ? I know parts of it, but there must be more nice details Tora 1. Take all teh POCOs 2. ??? 3. Profit. There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency. |
Mara Tessidar
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
996
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Posted - 2013.11.20 12:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
There's not even a ??? step. |
Victor Dathar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
135
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Posted - 2013.11.20 13:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
What is there to say?
We plant POCOs around busy places to make stacks of isk so we can go to the Exotic Dancer clubs and make it rain. ^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7 |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
708
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Posted - 2013.11.20 14:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Victor Dathar wrote:What is there to say?
We plant POCOs around busy places to make stacks of isk so we can go to the Exotic Dancer clubs and make it rain.
Well, that and the lulz, can't forget the lulz. |
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
501
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Posted - 2013.11.20 14:30:00 -
[6] - Quote
No worries Tora. They will have to fight to keep them :) |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2324
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Posted - 2013.11.20 14:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Zeus Maximo wrote:No worries Tora. They will have to fight to keep them :) POCOs aren't in range of a docking ring, so no, I doubt there's much chance of Tora and his crew being anywhere near it. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |
Victor Dathar
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
136
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Posted - 2013.11.20 15:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
No but you see High Sec is a no Goon zone so all of the effort being wasted on knocking down Interbus Customs Offices is wasted because the High Sec Pvper Master Race are simply waiting for us to do the hard work before shooting our POCOs that have a reinforce timer and... wait. ^^^ lol that post is so bad you should get back 2 GBS m8 o7 |
Lyris Nairn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
12058
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Posted - 2013.11.20 16:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
~regards meight Sky Captain of Your Heart
Reddit: lyris_nairn Skype: lyris.nairn Twitter: @lyris_nairn |
Anya Klibor
Error-404 Cup Of ConKrete.
535
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Posted - 2013.11.20 16:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:Zeus Maximo wrote:No worries Tora. They will have to fight to keep them :) POCOs aren't in range of a docking ring, so no, I doubt there's much chance of Tora and his crew being anywhere near it.
BOOM! |
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
806
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Posted - 2013.11.20 17:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:Zeus Maximo wrote:No worries Tora. They will have to fight to keep them :) POCOs aren't in range of a docking ring, so no, I doubt there's much chance of Tora and his crew being anywhere near it. BOOM!
Zeus was not thinking solely on Marmite as in who would fight them ;) "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
708
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Posted - 2013.11.20 20:50:00 -
[12] - Quote
Here's the thing... Say someone did hire Marmite to take a goon, RvB, or another large entity's poco. Marmite succeeds, the poco is replaced, Marmite moves on to the next contract/wardec. What do you think will happen to that poco? Goons, RvB, or whomever pay much less to wardec the poco owner, smash the poco and repeat. The owner hires marmite again, rinse and repeat.
Basically, what does RvB or Goons care about the cost of a small wardec? And both can easily field a large enough group to kill a poco. Marmite gets paid for the Dec, so win or lose, they profit.
Really, the only loser is the one wanting to own the poco but unable to defend it. They will have to constantly buy pocos, upgrade materials, and pay merc fees. No pi tax will cover that cost. Such a model will crush the corp's walket quickly. So really, hire mercs. It just creates an isk sink for the corp doing the hiring. |
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
601
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Posted - 2013.11.20 21:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Remember, this is high sec baby Its good to know who you want as friend or enemies.... You either love us or we hate you. |
Khanh'rhh
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
2329
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Here's the thing... Say someone did hire Marmite to take a goon, RvB, or another large entity's poco. Marmite succeeds, the poco is replaced, Marmite moves on to the next contract/wardec. What do you think will happen to that poco? Goons, RvB, or whomever pay much less to wardec the poco owner, smash the poco and repeat. The owner hires marmite again, rinse and repeat.
Basically, what does RvB or Goons care about the cost of a small wardec? And both can easily field a large enough group to kill a poco. Marmite gets paid for the Dec, so win or lose, they profit.
Really, the only loser is the one wanting to own the poco but unable to defend it. They will have to constantly buy pocos, upgrade materials, and pay merc fees. No pi tax will cover that cost. Such a model will crush the corp's walket quickly. So really, hire mercs. It just creates an isk sink for the corp doing the hiring.
There's a reinforcement timer to fight over. Historically speaking, goons have been known to show up for these in numbers where you need to count the full fleets, rather than the individuals. "2 armour tanked pirate BS and lots of neut logi on an undock", as a tactic, doesn't really cut it.
I mean you wont get 3000 goons showing up for any random timer, but the point is, if you want to escalate, one side can, one side can't. In any scenario, we win. "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930 |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2127
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:I mean you wont get 3000 goons showing up for any random timer, but the point is, if you want to escalate, one side can, one side can't. In any scenario, we win.
I look forward to High Sec scrubs getting a glimpse into what a 'defense fleet' actually looks like; the only thing throwing a kitchen sink fleet at it will do is make a bunch of Goons laugh.
I'm surprised Boat hasn't lead the charge personally, admiral hat and all- I mean surely the thought of a few thousand new structures fresh for the grinder can only be met with a smug smile and a ninja turtle boxer shorts rustling boner. |
Danalee
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
216
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Posted - 2013.11.20 22:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Khanh'rhh wrote:
I mean you wont get 3000 goons showing up for any random timer, but the point is, if you want to escalate, one side can, one side can't. In any scenario, we win.
Hahaha, good one
History of goonsbears venturing in hisec strongly disagrees
D.
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Anya Solette
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.11.20 23:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Khanh'rhh wrote:
I mean you wont get 3000 goons showing up for any random timer, but the point is, if you want to escalate, one side can, one side can't. In any scenario, we win.
Hahaha, good one History of goonsbears venturing in hisec strongly disagrees D.
We're excellent at grinding structures, the best even, you might say. Also, there are no docking rings for Marmite to hide behind at these customs offices. Bring it on |
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
601
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Posted - 2013.11.20 23:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think the last long war with Goons we killed 150B of your ships..... short memory it seems. You either love us or we hate you. |
Anya Solette
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.11.20 23:52:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:I think the last long war with Goons we killed 150B of your ships..... short memory it seems.
Killing them off in ones and twos on a station undock is not the same as trying to take on a fleet in space
Do something other than pop retards who undock in Jita with WTs in local and we will see. |
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
601
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Posted - 2013.11.21 00:18:00 -
[20] - Quote
Its clear you have no clue how we hunt
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=288479 You either love us or we hate you. |
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Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
501
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Posted - 2013.11.21 00:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
I think many are failing to see how conventional warfare differs from guerrilla warfare. If the goons, or any major alliance for that matter, bring a fleet to high sec for every poco of theirs that gets reinforced then we'll see a lot of perma decs go through. The dream in high sec is for a nullsec entity to march into high sec and "take whats theirs." It's never happened and never will. The many cannot outmaneuver the few.
At first these entities are going to boast about their numbers but then reality will set in. If I were to take a system worth of goon pocos I would start attacking them all at once. When goons bring a "scary fleet" 20 jumps to defend their 100 mil structure I will just fly to another region until they leave. Whether I have to do this 2 times or 20 times they will eventually be trained to thought that they will not get a fight. Over time these poco's will be forgotten about and be left behind.
Go forth blobbers and capture as many poco's as you can. This way in the future I will only have 1 group to war dec per system. |
Laserak
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
173
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Posted - 2013.11.21 00:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
This can only be settled one way. Marmite needs to ref one of our pocos and then show up to face our defense fleet. Can they even form a fleet? 5 dudes on a gate? 3 guys on an undock? |
Sir Bumps-A-Lot
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
0
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Posted - 2013.11.21 01:48:00 -
[23] - Quote
I agree with Zeus. These will be very difficult proposition to defend for groups that have large numbers of them, especially in different systems. Bigger hi sec crews can easily scrounge up 10k-20k DPS to ref a tower in 8-16 minutes. Now said group does that to 5-20 POCOs in a row. Which do you send the fleet to? By the time the attacking fleet picks one they will have it popped in 4-8 minutes given the above mentioned DPS output. If they show up you bounce out and attack another. Absolute worst case you let the defense fleet rep the POCO, then attack it again in a few hours and play all over again.
The real question is going to be which group is going to get bored of the grind first? I would expect the null sec entities will eventually realize there are more important matters elsewhere closer to home. |
Rhes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
407
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Posted - 2013.11.21 03:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Its clear you have no clue how we hunt Sitting on a station undock and hiding in the station any time more than one war target is in-system is a pretty funny definition of hunting. |
Danalee
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
217
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 08:40:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Tora Bushido wrote:Its clear you have no clue how we hunt Sitting on a station undock and hiding in the station any time more than one war target is in-system is a pretty funny definition of hunting.
Yes! That is EXACTLY how we hunt. Were you in Marmites at any point in time? How you know our most secret tactics is quite scary.
Still, you are right, we couldn't dream of hurting your shitfit blobfleets bridg.... errr... cyno... errr... flying to hisec, no sire. In fact, I've said it before : every time those organized nullsec powerblocks come to visit, we are doomed to scurry away in a corner and wait untill they leave... It was like that err... one time... err... not so long ago... err... never.
It's not like you guys are overstretched in null as it is, right? No, in fact you have to many bees in every sector hapily ratting and bearing it up.
In short: we scurred now and also a bit of: bring it, sister!
D.
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Antony E Stark
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
72
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Posted - 2013.11.21 09:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
Now don't get me wrong, I like Goons but.... This type of venture is unfeasible and unsustainable because, as everyone has already said, they will not have the time, resources or inclination to defend the poco's for very long.
Lets assume that they have dedicated a fleet of moderate proportion of alts or HS dwellers to maintain and guard the poco's. That's all well and good but are they really going to defend, repair, replace every single poco that's attacked? Are they going to out-match and out-gun the rag tag fleets from HS entities? Possibly, initially. However it will soon become more effort than it's worth.
Ultimatley this is just a PR stunt and reminder the Goons are still here and CAN do this IF they choose. I would wager they hope everyone forgets about it and gets bored before dropping the scheme - or that the HS entities will get bored after the initial flurry and leave them and their poco's in peace.
Would I wager that HS entities like Marmite etc would spend vast amounts of time hunting and killing these? Yes! A bit of DPS, a few RR and some EWAR is enough to pop a poco and provide enough for an extraction if a big defense fleet shows up. Also crappy cheap gank ships will do the job just fine - and who cares if you loose a 700 dps gank rax?
Lastly... poco's in Jita? That's it? There must be more. The area in Jita whilst busy cannot surely yield enough resources to justify this expenditure? WAIT! IT'S A TARP! Jita is just a distraction!
TL;DR: Short term PR stunt and one side will get bored/forget before the other. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
807
|
Posted - 2013.11.21 09:54:00 -
[27] - Quote
If 10 people make something that results in another group moving 500 people to a specific system in high sec at a specific time to do something not fun at all.
Well then these 10 are the ones trolling the large group. Specially since they will jsut use that time to do other stuff in high sec.
Bring huge fleets, you are just making yourself a fool doing so in high sec. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
FallenTitan
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
39
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Posted - 2013.11.21 10:41:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:If 10 people make something that results in another group moving 500 people to a specific system in high sec at a specific time to do something not fun at all.
Well then these 10 are the ones trolling the large group. Specially since they will jsut use that time to do other stuff in high sec.
Bring huge fleets, you are just making yourself a fool doing so in high sec.
Unless your entire PvP community is based in hi-sec, lives less than 10 jumps from most of their POCOs, Can field 50,000+ dps at a moments notice... and has an insatiable appetite for killmails.
Yet surprisingly that does not stop some corporations from trying, or hiring mercs to try and lay claim to RvB POCOs... their reasoning is still unknown. Yet given that RvB profits go straight back into the RvB community, they underestimate that RvB pilots are keen to defend against these mildly amusing 'merc' alliances.
The RvBee Collective is currently completing research to understand the psychology behind hiring mercs or directly wardecing to claim a POCO for their own 10 man corp, which can not defend their own POCO from the original owners even if they got to the stage of killing and replacing the POCO. Currently, the research seems to indicate extreme retardation on behalf of the war decing corps. RvB Blue Republic CEO |
Danalee
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
218
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Posted - 2013.11.21 11:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
FallenTitan wrote: Unless your entire PvP community is based in hi-sec, lives less than 10 jumps from most of their POCOs, Can field 50,000+ dps at a moments notice... and has an insatiable appetite for killmails.
Yet surprisingly that does not stop some corporations from trying, or hiring mercs to try and lay claim to RvB POCOs... their reasoning is still unknown. Yet given that RvB profits go straight back into the RvB community, they underestimate that RvB pilots are keen to defend against these mildly amusing 'merc' alliances.
The RvBee Collective is currently completing research to understand the psychology behind hiring mercs or directly wardecing to claim a POCO for their own 10 man corp, which can not defend their own POCO from the original owners even if they got to the stage of killing and replacing the POCO. Currently, the research seems to indicate extreme retardation on behalf of the war decing corps.
I don't know about others but we like to be at war with you guys, allows us to test some insane stuff against big blobs and sometimes die in a hilarious way . For the 'being amusing' bit, thanks! As said, we like you too!
The pocos are just an extra way of getting fights going... It's not like you'll make any serious isk off them or anything. Why others try to take RVB's pocos you ask? Why not... It's not like you (or any other group for that matter) have limitless resources or supplies.... Not everyone knows what you are about and because you claim some systems as home doesn't mean others don't do the same thing.
In any case, the Hisec poco thing is doing what it's supposed to do, create conflict. I've got my fingers crossed for conflict of the fun kind. Time will tell.
D.
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FallenTitan
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
39
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Posted - 2013.11.21 11:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Danalee wrote:FallenTitan wrote: Unless your entire PvP community is based in hi-sec, lives less than 10 jumps from most of their POCOs, Can field 50,000+ dps at a moments notice... and has an insatiable appetite for killmails.
Yet surprisingly that does not stop some corporations from trying, or hiring mercs to try and lay claim to RvB POCOs... their reasoning is still unknown. Yet given that RvB profits go straight back into the RvB community, they underestimate that RvB pilots are keen to defend against these mildly amusing 'merc' alliances.
The RvBee Collective is currently completing research to understand the psychology behind hiring mercs or directly wardecing to claim a POCO for their own 10 man corp, which can not defend their own POCO from the original owners even if they got to the stage of killing and replacing the POCO. Currently, the research seems to indicate extreme retardation on behalf of the war decing corps.
I don't know about others but we like to be at war with you guys, allows us to test some insane stuff against big blobs and sometimes die in a hilarious way . For the 'being amusing' bit, thanks! As said, we like you too! The pocos are just an extra way of getting fights going... It's not like you'll make any serious isk off them or anything. Why others try to take RVB's pocos you ask? Why not... It's not like you (or any other group for that matter) have limitless resources or supplies.... Not everyone knows what you are about and because you claim some systems as home doesn't mean others don't do the same thing. In any case, the Hisec poco thing is doing what it's supposed to do, create conflict. I've got my fingers crossed for conflict of the fun kind. Time will tell. D.
This isn't really about Marmite, you guys understandably could not compete with an RvB purple fleet waiting at a reinforced POCO. I wouldn't say this new system is creating much conflict either, so far we've had merc alliances and independent corps alike try to claim POCOs from us... with no success. Heck even if they do succeed we just summon a 100+ purple fleet and take it back.
Since your pilots never enter RvB territory in a solid fleet, at least from what I've seen, it's just a case of shooting lone (often new) RvB members and hoping they are not bait. Your insta-nados on Jita 4-4 help clean the RvB gene pool of new members who don't read intel or MOTDs.
RvB Blue Republic CEO |
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