Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Sensor Error
|
Posted - 2006.02.23 00:14:00 -
[1]
ok, so I've got a new minmatar char. I've just come back to the game after being galantte. I had a megathron, which, with the right setup, could tank pretty much any spawn I came accross in querious. So, I'm looking at what I should be doing, shield tanking or armour tanking, and several different people have told me shield tanking, although as far as I can tell armour tanking is far superior. What is so great about shield tanking? as far as I can tell, the total resistances on most ships for armour is about 130%, as apposed to 110% for shields. As for "repair rate" they both come in at at tie, but with armour tanking typically having better effiencey in terms of cap per unit repaired. Couple this with the whole cap power relay penalty of 10% per relay, shield tanking really seems to suck. What am I missing?
------------------------------------------
Now run along and play with your dolls... |
ParMizaN
|
Posted - 2006.02.23 00:18:00 -
[2]
the type of tank is dependent on the ship; being minmatar certain ships you will want to shield tank while others you will want to armour tank.
and OMG at the amount of threads o_0
Phenomena of ironies, cast the litany aside How intelligible, blessed be the forgetful
I Luv Teh Parm!!1 - Imaran |
LandSharK
|
Posted - 2006.02.23 00:22:00 -
[3]
what about the ability to add more damage mods so u can have a good sheild tank and good damage but with armout its one or the other more or less
|
Cukogra
|
Posted - 2006.02.23 00:42:00 -
[4]
Typically when you shield tank, you lose space for webbers, mwd/ab, disruptors, ew. But when you armor tank, you lose space for damage/weapon mods, stabs, etc. It's a give and take situation, I tend to armor tank minmatar alot, especially the frigates (basically all I fly). Rarely fly my rupture or cyclone.
Good rule of thumb, more medium slots is shield tanking and more lo slots is armor tanking.
|
Sensor Error
|
Posted - 2006.02.23 07:48:00 -
[5]
Originally by: LandSharK what about the ability to add more damage mods so u can have a good sheild tank and good damage but with armout its one or the other more or less
I hadn't thought of that. I had considered checking damage types that targets were doing and using shield/ armour as required. Thanks for all who posted :) ------------------------------------------
Now run along and play with your dolls... |
BlueSmok
|
Posted - 2006.02.23 09:19:00 -
[6]
This is what I tell new recruits. When Shield tanking you have hardners for your encounter, if your hardners aren't correct for what you're facing or sufficent you have all your armor to get out. However if you're unsure what you're doing and find out in the middle of battle that your armor tank isn't quite what it needs to be, you only have your Hull to make a run for it. So for new people starting, even Gallente I suggest getting a little shield tanking skills, till you get better footing.
If you're not flying with Hippies, you're not having FUN. |
Shadow Mancer
|
Posted - 2006.02.23 09:31:00 -
[7]
hey Stoned Hippie
Why dont' you tell your new recruits to run Hull tanking it's great now with the new damage control mods ;-) CEO and Founder of Warriors of Gods |
Mike Yagon
|
Posted - 2006.02.23 10:06:00 -
[8]
Hull tank ftw!
|
Justice Bringer
|
Posted - 2006.02.23 10:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Sensor Error
Originally by: LandSharK what about the ability to add more damage mods so u can have a good sheild tank and good damage but with armout its one or the other more or less
I hadn't thought of that. I had considered checking damage types that targets were doing and using shield/ armour as required. Thanks for all who posted :)
Well armour tanking is more durable and less cap intensive, and as for not being able to fit damage mods, that's ok by me I'll stick 4 or 5 multi specs in a Domi, massive tank down low, and Nos up top.
So you can nos, jam, and tank all at the same time which you can't do with shield tanking
Justice
|
Ahop Yol
|
Posted - 2006.02.23 10:51:00 -
[10]
I armour tank and shield tank. Shield tanking repairs more damage faster but eats cap. So you can take more of a beating but in a shorter space of time. Armour tanking is much more cap efficient but you can easily die before you run out of cap in certain situations because the reps don't use your cap fast enough.
Both are good in the right situation.
Also, why are there like twice as many skills required for shield tanking than armour? I'm can't log on right now but for skill that affect armour tanking, it's Energy Management, Energy Systems Operation, Hull Upgrades, Repair systems and Mechanic. That's 5 skills. For shield tanking (off the top of my head) it's Energy Management, Energy Systems Operation, Shield Management, Shield Operations, Shield Upgrades, Tactical Shield Manipulation and Shield Compensation which is a total of 7 skills.
Why is this?
(I haven't included any of the new passive skills because afaik there are an equal amount for both shields and armour.)
|
|
Soldier 79
|
Posted - 2006.02.23 11:24:00 -
[11]
I'm armor or shield tank my ships. I usualy go for shield tank (so my setup is more for damage) killing targets before my cap is lower is good. I choose between armor or shield tank by it resistances. If I fight Angels (expl/kinet) I use shield tank... just 2 hard. and shield booser. When I fight Amarrs (em/therm) I use Armor tank and with Caldari type ships (kin/therm) I use on of them. ususaly shield tank (on HAC) but on BS I use armor tank with 4 hard.
cheers
|
Sun Ra
|
Posted - 2006.02.23 11:43:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Sun Ra on 23/02/2006 11:44:32 Tsssk, armour tanking isnt more cap effective tho, tho it should be.
1)Now cos of invul field unerf shield tanks tend to havve higher resists 2)Due to the high resists u dont have to run the shield booster as much 3)Because the low cycle time its easier to manage the usage of a shield booster than it is with 2x long cycling armour reps, also because armour reps give you the boost after the cycle not before it makes them even hard to manage. Theres a much bigger penalty for turning your armour rep on late than it is your shield booster. 4)Shields regen by themselfs for free 5)Shield tank + PDU 2s = win, not only does it give you extra shields it ups your shield regen and your cap regen.
Yes theres a big draw back that u dont have midslots for useful modules, so what do armour tankers do now days to make there ship effective, USE BLOODY ECM, ecm on everyship = zZZZZZZZZzzzzzzZZZZzzzzzzzz
Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas' |
Sun Ra
|
Posted - 2006.02.24 15:14:00 -
[13]
*cough*
Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas' |
Sensor Error
|
Posted - 2006.02.24 19:21:00 -
[14]
something else I just noticed - remote shield transfer modules have a higher output points than input cap points - remote armour is inverse to this. ------------------------------------------
Now run along and play with your dolls... |
IAM DWI
|
Posted - 2006.02.24 20:07:00 -
[15]
there are absolutely more than 5 skills to armor tank!! You are forgetting the other 4 skills needed to increase your active and inactive hardner percentages!!! lvl5 will increase your active hardners by 15% and your inactive hardners by 25% for each damage type you do!!!!
suddenly your non-cap eating nano's just got a nice boost! ______________________________________________ Sometimes you git - Sometimes you git got |
Wesley Harding
|
Posted - 2006.02.24 21:24:00 -
[16]
Train both. EW ships can then armor tank, while some damage setups will have a shield tank. Neither are ideal, but better then nothing.
|
Livia Tarquina
|
Posted - 2006.02.24 21:29:00 -
[17]
1. Whichever is higher 2. Neither. Everyone is splitting hairs with the pros and cons in the end. 3. Do whatever you want. I think shields are more sci-fi. Armor more fantasy IMO. 4. Realize that shield tanking and tackling are different playstyles and choose one or the other. Using shields means focusing on firepower and tackling means sacrificing firepower for electronics. "Big guns and heavy armor what else is there?"
--Amarrian Admiral before entering battle against Jove Navy |
Haniblecter Teg
|
Posted - 2006.02.24 21:32:00 -
[18]
The amount of skills for shield tanking and armor tnaking is the same.
The passive shield recharge skills shouldnt really count as anything necessary, since they pale in comparison to a XL boosters recharge. ---------------------------------------- Friends Forever |
Livia Tarquina
|
Posted - 2006.02.24 21:35:00 -
[19]
I'd love to try shield rechargers anyway as a form of damage reduction for smaller hits that build up over time. "Big guns and heavy armor what else is there?"
--Amarrian Admiral before entering battle against Jove Navy |
Guardian Alpha
|
Posted - 2006.02.24 21:52:00 -
[20]
Quote: Tsssk, armour tanking isnt more cap effective tho, tho it should be.
It is more effective. I'll even run the math for you on a smaller scale.
Small armor repairer: repairs 60 armor in 6 seconds for 40 capacitor
Small shield booster: repairs 20 capacitor in 2 seconds for 20 capacitor
A small shield booster cycles 3 times in the time it takes for the armor repairer to cycle once.
small armor repairer after 6 seconds: 60 armor, 40 capacitor small shield booster after 6 seconds: 60 shield, 60 capacitor
A difference of 20 capacitor every 6 seconds.
And for a larger scale:
Large armor repairer: repairs 600 armor every 15 seconds for 400 capacitor Large shield booster: repairs 160 shield every 4 seconds for 160 capacitor
The shield booster cycles 3.75 times each armor repair
Large armor repairer after 15 seconds: 600 armor for 400 capacitor Large shield booster after 15 seconds: 600 shield for 600 capacitor
A difference of 200 capacitor every 15 seconds.
Strangely enough.. the capital shield booster is MUCH MUCH more efficient than the capital armor repairer. ------------------- "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." - Charles Darwin |
|
Pottsey
|
Posted - 2006.02.24 21:53:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Pottsey on 24/02/2006 21:54:39 ôThe passive shield recharge skills shouldnt really count as anything necessary, since they pale in comparison to a XL boosters recharge.ö That not true. ItÆs not hard to hit a passive regen of 20 to 30HP with a few PDS modules to power that XL booster on top of the shield skills. 20 to 30 extra HP/s on top of the XL boosters 120 is not pale in comparison. 20hp/s extra when added with your shield resistance can make a large difference. I would rather have 140 to 150 HP/s then just 120HP/s. ItÆs the passive regen that helps make shield tanking better then amour tanking.
Most people seem to think the passive regen is only 1 or 3 HP/s but its not, itÆs a lot higher most of the time.
_________________________________________________ Nominate famous people in Eve who had an impact on you. |
Guardian Alpha
|
Posted - 2006.02.24 21:54:00 -
[22]
Quote: Most people seem to think the passive regen is only 1 or 3 HP/s but its not, itÆs a lot higher.
QFT!!! Potts knows her math when it comes to passive tanking and I've never met someone who has more first hand experience in the matter. ------------------- "It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." - Charles Darwin |
Mnengli Noiliffe
|
Posted - 2006.02.25 04:42:00 -
[23]
Some points are mentioned already but I'll say all I know anyway..
1. XL shield boosters. Capital-class module which is used on battleships. Armour repairers of this size are not available atm. So for armor you have to waste 2 slots for 2 large reppers, where for shield you would only need 1 slot for XL booster. And that's in addition to passive regen... 2. Passive regen. This is a HUGE advantage, because it's boosted by ANY other shield mods... Additionally, modules lots of modules available to increase this recharge - shield extenders, shield rechargers, and shield power relays. 3. This last mod needs special attention. It directs some cap regen to the shield passive regen. Firstly, cap is not important if you use missiles or projectiles so it's very viable approach. Secondly, it's a low slot mod, which means that shield tankers can effectively tank with both mid and low slots, when armor can only tank with low slots, because no med slot mods are available for armour tanking. 4. Shield extenders. they increase passive shield recharge rate in the same way that cap bats increase capacitor regeneration. Armor plates however doesn't provide anything except for some buffer which is only useful in pvp. 5. Invuln fields, active all-resist mod. this alone makes shields uber, you get much more for slot used for tanking than you would with adaptive nano, which drastically increases shield's tanking efficiency compared to armour tanking.
Now my thoughts about how this can be balanced a bit. 1. Swap all-resist modules between armor and shield. Shield should loose its invuln field and receive passive all-resists module, armor should loose adaptive nano and receive invuln. field equivalent. 2. Armour repairers efficiency should be affected by armor plates. For example: armor repairer does 800hp per cycle and ship's total armor hp without plates is 8000, so repairer's performance is 10% armor per cycle. We add 2000hp armor plate which increases armor by 25%. After that repairer's performance should also be boosted. Perhaps not by the whole 25%, but at least by 12.5%... So it would repair 800*1.125=900hp per cycle. Or reduce cycle time in the same manner. 3. Give armor tankers XL armor repairer *****ble to battleship.
|
Rexthor Hammerfists
|
Posted - 2006.02.25 05:41:00 -
[24]
for pvp its like.
frigs have to have a web/ab scram and web - no shieldtank, big problem for caldari hacs btw..
cruisers better have a scram web and a mwd/ab too, and for a shiledtank u need a em hardener and a shieldbooster atleast, whereas ecm and a sensor booster would more welcome.
battleships, with the upcomming fix for damps/disr. im unsure whats better, ecm or a slight tank - next to the ab/mwd shieldboost on my raven..
im flyin a zealot on my other acc, and damn i love it, having a ab wen and scram just rocks cause it doesnt gimp ur tank, and u cant fit more then 2 bcus on a missile crusier anyways (cerb could but it wouldnt make sense.) - Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
|
Lorette
|
Posted - 2006.02.25 06:34:00 -
[25]
Another point that makes me use shield tanking over armor is the huge fitting costs of armor reps, completely destroys youre offense.
|
Black Lotus
|
Posted - 2006.02.25 09:02:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Lorette Another point that makes me use shield tanking over armor is the huge fitting costs of armor reps, completely destroys youre offense.
May want to compare the cpu on large armor rep, to a X-large booster as well.
The fitting is compensated for the appropriate races.
I do prefer shield tanking tho.
Mind u a cap injected apoc, w\ 3 hardners, and 4 large armor II, can tank pretty damn nuts.
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |