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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1124
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 20:30:00 -
[61] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:No, you haven't made a point. You haven't even presented one. You dropped something that you imagined to be clever that had absolutely no bearing on the conversation in the least. Then, you threw a tantrum, called names, and, without a hint of irony, started whining about "school-yard debating skills" . Calm down, it's going to be okay. I'm sure you'll have a point to make some other day.
Ok and now you have gone from arguing in the school yard to pantomine "Oh no you didnt" "oh yes I did" arguments
You seem to be entirely unable to actually form any kind of rational defense to your position and are now launching ad hominem attacks at me
Which is fine
I do like getting emotional when faced with morons
Means I know Im right High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
196
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 20:32:00 -
[62] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:No, you haven't made a point. You haven't even presented one. You dropped something that you imagined to be clever that had absolutely no bearing on the conversation in the least. Then, you threw a tantrum, called names, and, without a hint of irony, started whining about "school-yard debating skills" . Calm down, it's going to be okay. I'm sure you'll have a point to make some other day. Ok and now you have gone from arguing in the school yard to pantomine "Oh no you didnt" "oh yes I did" arguments You seem to be entirely unable to actually form any kind of rational defense to your position and are now launching ad hominem attacks at me Which is fine I do like getting emotional when faced with morons Means I know Im right
You haven't actually presented anything I would have to defend my position against. You're just throwing a tantrum that has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation. That you continue to do so instead of actually stating any position at all makes it pretty obvious that you're intent on derailing this for as long as possible because you understand that you were wrong and don't want to admit it. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1125
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 20:36:00 -
[63] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
You haven't actually presented anything I would have to defend my position against. You're just throwing a tantrum that has absolutely nothing to do with the conversation. That you continue to do so instead of actually stating any position at all makes it pretty obvious that you're intent on derailing this for as long as possible because you understand that you were wrong and don't want to admit it.
But Im not
Im also not derailing anything. Im sticking to to point made in regards to favouritism.
You are simply making empty arguments based on nothing to keep my attention.
So, then, please, why not answer the question;
In what manner can favouritism exist without a mutual beneficial back and forth realitionship between giver and receiver?
Please ask for meanings of any words you find difficult before answering High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
197
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 20:42:00 -
[64] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:
In what manner can favouritism exist without a mutual beneficial back and forth realitionship between giver and receiver?
What I said, is that that doesn't matter. This being a competitive game, CCP has an inherent responsibility to play the role of an impartial arbiter.
That they get something out of it doesn't magically obviate that inherent responsibility, therefore the statement that you believe to be so clever doesn't actually matter within the scope of the greater argument.
In other words, regardless of the explicit accuracy of the statement, you merely succeeded in saying something that has no actual significance. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1125
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 20:46:00 -
[65] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:
In what manner can favouritism exist without a mutual beneficial back and forth realitionship between giver and receiver?
What I said, is that that doesn't matter. This being a competitive game, CCP has an inherent responsibility to play the role of an impartial arbiter. That they get something out of it doesn't magically obviate that inherent responsibility, therefore the statement that you believe to be so clever doesn't actually matter within the scope of the greater argument. In other words, regardless of the explicit accuracy of the statement, you merely succeeded in saying something that has no actual significance.
Ah but it DOES matter.
"CCP has an inherent responsibility to play the role of an impartial arbiter."
No, it doesn't .
CCP has an inherent responisbility to its owners, shareholders, a lesser extent its staff, and to an even lesser extent you and me.
CCP is a business, not a referee.
It is not bound by anything other than international law and business "ethics".
What I have said previously is the HOW of the CCP/SB relationship.
What I have just said is the WHY
These are relevant and explicitly signifigant to the situation
Your concept of being some sort of football referee is the irrelevancy here High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
197
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 20:48:00 -
[66] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:
In what manner can favouritism exist without a mutual beneficial back and forth realitionship between giver and receiver?
What I said, is that that doesn't matter. This being a competitive game, CCP has an inherent responsibility to play the role of an impartial arbiter. That they get something out of it doesn't magically obviate that inherent responsibility, therefore the statement that you believe to be so clever doesn't actually matter within the scope of the greater argument. In other words, regardless of the explicit accuracy of the statement, you merely succeeded in saying something that has no actual significance. Ah but it DOES matter. "CCP has an inherent responsibility to play the role of an impartial arbiter." No, it doesn't . CCP has an inherent responisbility to its owners, shareholders, a lesser extent its staff, and to an even lesser extent you and me. CCP is a business, not a referee. It is not bound by anything other than international law and business "ethics". What I have said is the HOW of the CCP/SB relationship. What I have just said is the WHY
As long as they're presenting it as a competitive game, they ARE a referee. If they're willing to sacrifice that assertion, then they can ditch that responsibility. They're trying to do both, which is dishonest, at best.
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1125
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 20:51:00 -
[67] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
As long as they're presenting it as a competitive game, they ARE a referee. If they're willing to sacrifice that assertion, then they can ditch that responsibility. They're trying to do both, which is dishonest, at best.
And they can do that if they like, its their ball
High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
Cave Ciliatum
Super Heroes In Training
11
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Posted - 2013.11.22 20:54:00 -
[68] - Quote
omfg plz stop this madnesss!!!! |
Cosmar
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.11.22 20:59:00 -
[69] - Quote
The only thing that bothers me about this and the scorpions and all that is that CCP doesn't have the nuts to just say "we reserve the right as a company to give a small number of unique variants of ships to events and people we like, for any reason we feel like, like we've done for 10 years now, goodbye, **** off".
It's not CCP's job to babysit the market in case it makes one objectively nearly-worthless item super expensive because of insane collectors or whatever (or in the opposite case if giving more cool items to more people loses someone money on their dumb speculative investment).
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
197
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 21:02:00 -
[70] - Quote
Cosmar wrote:The only thing that bothers me about this and the scorpions and all that is that CCP doesn't have the nuts to just say "we reserve the right as a company to give a small number of unique variants of ships to events and people we like, for any reason we feel like, like we've done for 10 years now, goodbye, **** off".
It's not CCP's job to babysit the market in case it makes one objectively nearly-worthless item super expensive because of insane collectors or whatever (or in the opposite case if giving more cool items to more people loses someone money on their dumb speculative investment).
WINNAR!
If they could stop incessantly bullshitting us in dev blogs and forum posts about how much they respect and value an even playing field in Eve, this would be an entirely different matter. |
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1125
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 21:09:00 -
[71] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
WINNAR!
If they could stop incessantly bullshitting us in dev blogs and forum posts about how much they respect and value an even playing field in Eve, this would be an entirely different matter.
Instead it's, "We reserve the right to publicly pretend that we will behave impartially while openly cheating on behalf of some players."
The Greed is Good doctrine is obviously still very much alive within CCP.
*BLINK*
Thats precisely what I said except without the entitled attitude at the start
Wow.
You really do have some sort of problem lol High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
197
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 21:12:00 -
[72] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:
WINNAR!
If they could stop incessantly bullshitting us in dev blogs and forum posts about how much they respect and value an even playing field in Eve, this would be an entirely different matter.
Instead it's, "We reserve the right to publicly pretend that we will behave impartially while openly cheating on behalf of some players."
The Greed is Good doctrine is obviously still very much alive within CCP.
*BLINK* Thats precisely what I said except without the entitled attitude at the start Wow. You really do have some sort of problem lol
Except, it's not your position at all, because you're 100% fine with the hypocrisy and will white knight them regardless.
Your position: They can cheat AND openly lie about it, **** it, I don't care. My position: They should at least be honest about cheating. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1125
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 21:20:00 -
[73] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Except, it's not your position at all, because you're 100% fine with the hypocrisy and will white knight them regardless.
Your position: They can cheat AND openly lie about it, **** it, I don't care. My position: They should at least be honest about cheating.
These are only the same thing if you are functionally illiterate.
I see you handily ignored the sentence about having an entitled attitude
They ARE the same thing, except you feel they should treat you with some sort of unearned respect
Why should a video game company treat you any differently than any other company operating in the western world treats you?
Because you fly pretty pixels?
Call me illiterate if you like, but you are the one who is living in a fantasy High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
197
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 21:24:00 -
[74] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Except, it's not your position at all, because you're 100% fine with the hypocrisy and will white knight them regardless.
Your position: They can cheat AND openly lie about it, **** it, I don't care. My position: They should at least be honest about cheating.
These are only the same thing if you are functionally illiterate.
I see you handily ignored the sentence about having an entitled attitude They ARE the same thing, except you feel they should treat you with some sort of unearned respect Why should a video game company treat you any differently than any other company operating in the western world treats you? Because you fly pretty pixels? Call me illiterate if you like, but you are the one who is living in a fantasy
More like, "Because bullshitting their customers and getting caught on it is the only thing that has ever done measurable damage to their business."
Do explain why it's unreasonable to expect them to explain that they are, in fact, going to cheat on behalf of some players.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone white knight them for flagrantly lying to the players before. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1125
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 21:34:00 -
[75] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
More like, "Because bullshitting their customers and getting caught on it is the only thing that has ever done measurable damage to their business."
Do explain why it's unreasonable to expect them to explain that they are, in fact, going to cheat on behalf of some players.
I don't think I've ever seen anyone white knight them for flagrantly lying to the players before.
The fact that they feel compelled to lie about it demonstrates an understanding on their part that preferentially gifting things to some players isn't something that they could rely on being generally accepted as okay.
Because they are a business. Its what businesses do.
What you call "lying" is usually called "damage limitation", "marketting" or even more archaically "public relations".
They will do whatever they think is the most profitable regardless of what you think of that.
They are not here to make people feel better, or make you love them or anything like that.
If you don't like how they operate, well its an open market, you can vote with your feet.
Im content enough for them to do it because that's how it works. I vote in my own way by not using SB, though I wouldnt use them anyway as I do not like the gamble.
But I don't understand why you think this is in any way an unusual practice and also continue to provide CCP with financial support if you find their operating practices so abhorrant. High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
197
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 21:50:00 -
[76] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:
But I don't understand why you think this is in any way an unusual practice and also continue to provide CCP with financial support if you find their operating practices so abhorrant.
Quit-threats aren't really my style. That said, I've only been subbed for 16 days, and the Somer debacle is somewhat new to me. I may leave. My understanding is that there's still some final word on this pending.
Your assertion that this is business as usual is bizarre, however. It really isn't. There's no functional difference from a player perspective between this and T20.
From CCP's perspective, however, T20 was a scandal, while this is... what, community outreach? That alone represents and extremely large and unusual change in perspective for them. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1125
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 21:58:00 -
[77] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote: Your assertion that this is business as usual is bizarre, however. It really isn't. There's no functional difference from a player perspective between this and T20.
From CCP's perspective, however, T20 was a scandal, while this is... what, community outreach? That alone represents and extremely large and unusual change in perspective for them.
I wasn't around for T20, but from what I recall being told that was where T20 gave BPOs to BoB, right?
Which led to CCP changing their attitude towards employees having identifiable players alts, to one of that they are now secret and are not to divulge sensitive information such as release dates, but refused to fire said person as it wasn't in any way in breach of their employment rules?
High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1125
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 22:00:00 -
[78] - Quote
Oh and incidentally, do you have an idea for a fairer way for CCP to get unusual ships into general distribution? High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
197
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 22:02:00 -
[79] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote: Your assertion that this is business as usual is bizarre, however. It really isn't. There's no functional difference from a player perspective between this and T20.
From CCP's perspective, however, T20 was a scandal, while this is... what, community outreach? That alone represents and extremely large and unusual change in perspective for them.
I wasn't around for T20, but from what I recall being told that was where T20 gave BPOs to BoB, right?
Yes.
Quote: Which led to CCP changing their attitude towards employees having identifiable players alts, to one of that they are now secret and are not to divulge sensitive information such as release dates, but refused to fire said person as it wasn't in any way in breach of their employment rules?
There was definitely a breach of rules. IIRC the employee was basically saved by some sort of double-jeopardy principle after a non-termination punishment was meted out by junior management - just going off of memory. I would have to hit the Googles to for an authoritative version of events. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1125
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 22:03:00 -
[80] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
There was definitely a breach of rules. IIRC the employee was basically saved by some sort of double-jeopardy principle after a non-termination punishment was meted out by junior management - just going off of memory. I would have to hit the Googles to for an authoritative version of events.
And this is the same because..? High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
197
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Posted - 2013.11.22 22:11:00 -
[81] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Oh and incidentally, do you have an idea for a fairer way for CCP to get unusual ships into general distribution?
I would have absolutely no problem with CCP holding an auction or lottery to hand out rare/special edition items - that's something well within their means. They could easily do that. I don't object to the special items, nor do I object to their random distribution.
What I find objectionable is that, for no good reason, Somer gets to collect a commission on the distribution of those items.
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SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
197
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 22:12:00 -
[82] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:
There was definitely a breach of rules. IIRC the employee was basically saved by some sort of double-jeopardy principle after a non-termination punishment was meted out by junior management - just going off of memory. I would have to hit the Googles to for an authoritative version of events.
And this is the same because..?
Because valuable in-game assets were simply handed out to a player organization by devs. The action is the same. What changed is the rules. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1126
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 22:13:00 -
[83] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
What I find objectionable is that, for no good reason, Somer gets to collect a commission on the distribution of those items.
Hence my original statement about favouritism
There must be a reason
But like everything else around here, its not for the telling High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1126
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 22:14:00 -
[84] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Because valuable in-game assets were simply handed out to a player organization by devs. The action is the same. What changed is the rules.
Rules set by the same organisation.
Who are entitled to change them if and when the needs of the business determine it. High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
197
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 22:16:00 -
[85] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Because valuable in-game assets were simply handed out to a player organization by devs. The action is the same. What changed is the rules.
Rules set by the same organisation. Who are entitled to change them if and when the needs of the business determine it.
Right, but that's the point. They've changed the rules, and are trying to pretend like they haven't changed the rules, and the rules are a pretty important aspect of competitive games.
So, what are the actual rules now?
Can I just cut them a check for an SER and some T2 BPOs? |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Turing Tested
1127
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 22:21:00 -
[86] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Right, but that's the point. They've changed the rules, and are trying to pretend like they haven't changed the rules, and the rules are a pretty important aspect of competitive games.
So, what are the actual rules now?
Can I just cut them a check for an SER and some T2 BPOs?
Im sure if you provided a service that was as profitable for them to support as SB, you could have all manner of extremely expensive worthless ships to give away for isk High Priestess of The Temple of the Holy Amarr Suicide Cult of Haimeh "You are, quite literally, the best person ever." --áDomanique Altares,-áRifterlings "Send Ramona your ISK, and biomass." --áJarod Garamonde,-áSardaukar Merc Guild |
NEONOVUS
Saablast Followers
504
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 22:22:00 -
[87] - Quote
Its the special surprise for hurricane plexes. I mean really was emergency responder in the name not a big enough give away? |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
232
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 22:41:00 -
[88] - Quote
Giovanni erkelens2 wrote:and that you are mentioning GSF. makes you quite suspicious. and go read other posts. there are goon members shitting about too.
and if i have a learning diability mister Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
then you have a terrible terrible playing disability. as well as typing :)
have a good one and cry more :D
So . . . that's your best response?
Wow, I think I just won the internet. Sad, it doesn't feel as good as I thought it would.
I am not an alt of Chribba. |
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
232
|
Posted - 2013.11.22 22:52:00 -
[89] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:
Right, but that's the point. They've changed the rules, and are trying to pretend like they haven't changed the rules, and the rules are a pretty important aspect of competitive games.
So, what are the actual rules now?
Can I just cut them a check for an SER and some T2 BPOs?
Im sure if you provided a service that was as profitable for them to support as SB, you could have all manner of extremely expensive worthless ships to give away for isk
So clueless.
SOMER does what they do in the sandbox because they want to, and because it gets them in game rich (and IRL money too). They don't do it on the off chance that CCP will decide to give them free **** - which also means that no other corp can reliably plan to "provide a service" in the hopes of getting some free **** from CCP.
It's incredibly simple - there is no good reason for CCP to get into the habit of occasionally gifting super expensive ships to select "you're my favorite!" types of corporations. If CCP wants to add super expensive, rare ships to the game, do it in a way that doesn't so blatantly favor one player over another player. Make the BPC drop from a rare NPC spawn, seed the BPC in some worthless NPC corp's LP store (in limited quantity and at a hugely inflated price) and see who can grind it up quickest, fly a fleet of them through Jita while suspect and eject from the ship at 10% structure just to see if anyone can jump in and warp to safety . . . I mean, there are hundreds of ways of doing this that promote content without playing favorites.
Which highlights how stupid this decision is by CCP. SOMER sure doesn't need the recognition, aren't doing what they do for recognition by CCP - yet CCP decides to fundamentally **** with the sandbox by giving away rare ships to only certain players. It's just dumb.
I planned on quitting when SOMERgate first popped up, changed my mind when CCP got around to responding to complaints. This **** is no better, so . . . . buh bye. If I could see a single good reason for CCP to turn this into a standard practice, I'd at least listen to reasons for staying, but the fact is that there is no good reason. They're just doing it for the sake of doing it, the stupidest reason any business can do anything. And now they can do it without my sub, 'cause I came to play in a sandbox, not this, and especially not what this is going to become further down the road.
I am not an alt of Chribba. |
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ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
200
|
Posted - 2013.11.23 00:58:00 -
[90] - Quote
This topic is a duplicate thread and is therefore being locked.
ISD Tyrozan Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department @ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL |
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