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Dolan Miner
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Posted - 2006.02.23 20:45:00 -
[1]
I want to buy a Hulk, but I don't want to pay 500 Mil for a ship that I can only insure for 10 mil.
If you own a Hulk, would you please tell me how much Platinum insurance pays?
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.02.23 20:57:00 -
[2]
i don't have one, but i'll say 10-11mil
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.02.23 21:14:00 -
[3]
Base price is 11.5M more or less, so that's it's platinum insurance value.
Now just think how much profit the ship builder made from this trade.
Originally by: KilROCK
Originally by: Arkanor Gallente missileboat might be cool.
Pod yourself till you got no skills.[ |
HUGO DRAX
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Posted - 2006.02.24 06:05:00 -
[4]
You would have to mine a lot of scordite to pay that 500mill ticket. Dont just complain, do something. Channel macrointel meet with likeminded folks, spottings,intel |
Ballistic Mystic
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Posted - 2006.02.24 08:54:00 -
[5]
Being a T2 ship I'm sure it will follow suit with other T2 ships and the full payout won't even cover the price of the paint job. I'm just guessing because most of the ships I fly are T2 and I don't bother insuring them because it's an insult, but probably slightly more than what full coverage on a Covetor pays. In any case the full payout is guaranteed to be a bad joke compared to what it costs.
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Malena
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Posted - 2006.02.24 16:40:00 -
[6]
DON'T DO IT.
Anyone who mines more than once in a blue moon wants one. This is a given. But 500 million is just too much to pay for this ship, it would take you waaaay to long to mine enough to make it back. Plus it makes you a giant target...no less than 3 times, I have seen/been involved with/listened to groups of people pass by solo NPCing HACs and groups of miners, just to get one guy in his hulk, simply because they wanted to cost them as much money as possible.
The going price is whatever the market will support. The producers are charging that much simply because people will pay it. So stop paying it, and the price gets reduced. Clearly, given the numbers I have seen, they have reached profitability, so a reduction in price is simply less money for them to spend on exotic dancers.
I am not faulting the producers, they are simply trying to meet a demand, who can fault that? There were a couple of people trying to make simply a reasonable profit, but then the people they sold them to would turn around and sell them on the market in the same station! I would raise my prices in that case too.
So, don't do it, don't be part of the problem.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.02.24 16:49:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ithildin Base price is 11.5M more or less, so that's it's platinum insurance value.
Now just think how much profit the ship builder made from this trade.
A friend of mine got the BPO on the test server. He said they cost about 20mil to build with his components sources (as I recall). Compare to a HAC which CCP says costs 20mil, but costs about 35 to make, and a command ship which insures for 60mil and costs about 85mil to make... we of course know the prices for each ship (I think that command ships are actually getting to be less profitable than HACs right now!)
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Nathan Grey
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Posted - 2006.02.24 17:25:00 -
[8]
By the tingling of my blasters, something tells me this ... pilot has never owned a T2 ship before.
(Prowler 4tw!) ----------------------------------
Industrialist. I build it. You buy it. You break it and buy another one. Market domination through ingue ferrogue. (I did this and could have stopped it.) |
Wee Dave
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Posted - 2006.02.24 19:28:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Malena DON'T DO IT.
Anyone who mines more than once in a blue moon wants one. This is a given. But 500 million is just too much to pay for this ship, it would take you waaaay to long to mine enough to make it back.
Mining Crokite, you can make the investment back in around eleven hours of mining.
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Selak Zorander
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Posted - 2006.02.24 19:33:00 -
[10]
you cant take the item database values as build cost so dont even begin to think that a builder is making huls at 11.5 mil.
Especially concidering the base price of the covetor is 20mil and a hulk requires a covetor and morphite and numerous tech 2 components to build.
Yes that base cost is what insurance pay out is based on last i checked but you cant build something for 11.5mil when the first part to build it costs 20mil.
Just deal with the fact that it is not worth getting insurance on any tech 2 ship and in the long run no mater how many BPO are released, It may never be worth it to insure a tech 2 ship.
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Oresome
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Posted - 2006.02.24 19:34:00 -
[11]
Answer - Don't insure it. It's not worth it... as for making the value back, for a dedicated miner, it's not a problem.
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Dark Eulogy
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Posted - 2006.02.24 19:37:00 -
[12]
Never insure a tech 2? I don't see the logic to paying 1 mill and getting back 5 for example (random numbers) if the ship might have cost 50 mill in the first place, as opposed to not paying 1 and not getting anything.
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Ghey Iislandur
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Posted - 2006.02.24 21:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Wee Dave
Originally by: Malena DON'T DO IT.
Anyone who mines more than once in a blue moon wants one. This is a given. But 500 million is just too much to pay for this ship, it would take you waaaay to long to mine enough to make it back.
Mining Crokite, you can make the investment back in around eleven hours of mining.
Don't be ridiculous. That's 40-50+ full jet cans of crokite. And I suppose you are going to move it all by yourself too while you tank? Good luck with that. I think you're looking at a 30-hour week minimum of straight mining to even come close to breaking even.
Hmmm, one hulk for 500m or 250 Covetor BPC's? Makes you wonder what the better deal is ... ______________________________________________
Won't you give to the Minmatar Orphans of War Charities? With your generous donation of ore or isk, we can reunite a Minmatar slave with his family. |
Wee Dave
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Posted - 2006.02.24 21:09:00 -
[14]
If you are mining in a covetor, you will already be mining in a group.
And I've seen it done. Eleven and a half hours, more or less. Mining in a 0.0 crokite system with an outpost or station will easily yield 40-50 million an hour even if you insta to and from the belt with your hulk, and in a popular system you won't need to tank yourself either. You can simply move belts and people will be npcing enough that there will always be belts free.
If it takes 30 hours to make it back, that's about 16 million per hour, which is an absurd underestimation of the profit you can make from mining crok.
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Joshua Keeling
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Posted - 2006.02.24 21:19:00 -
[15]
At least with a Hulk you can sue the ship to make profit back. In a HAC or similar it is much more difficult.. or sometimes easier.. lol.. but in a hulk there's a constant way. Josh |
Ghey Iislandur
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Posted - 2006.02.27 21:42:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Wee Dave If you are mining in a covetor, you will already be mining in a group.
And I've seen it done. Eleven and a half hours, more or less. Mining in a 0.0 crokite system with an outpost or station will easily yield 40-50 million an hour even if you insta to and from the belt with your hulk, and in a popular system you won't need to tank yourself either. You can simply move belts and people will be npcing enough that there will always be belts free.
If it takes 30 hours to make it back, that's about 16 million per hour, which is an absurd underestimation of the profit you can make from mining crok.
I don't believe it's absurd at all. You might make about 40M an hour with straight crokite, but this assumes you are taking care of things for yourself which is really impossible in 0.0. You will have at least one partner - and you will most likely split the ore. On a good day, you'll get maybe 20M an hour with crok.
For one, you underestimate the time you'll be spending stopping the mining op to run from potential pvp'ers. Pvp'ers do tend to be attracted to ships that "cost" 500M if nothing more than the sheer pleasure of causing you the pain of the loss. Replacing even one of these would be a pain in the a$$ in deep 0.0. Pvp'ers are also attracted to systems with outposts, so if you want to mine without a lot of trouble in 0.0, you're really better off with a not-so-well known POS in some remote locale than painting an even bigger target on that fat mining ship by mining in a crowded system.
You might make the argument that the hulk mines faster than the covetor. That, plus the ability to at least not get your mining vessel destroyed by one or two NPC's might make the hulk worth 100M-150M or so (that is 5-7X as much as a normal covetor). But it is hardly worth 500M (25X more) unless you can warp to belt, tank the NPC's by yourself, fill your hold, then get away - again without assitance from anyone. Since you can't do this you're only getting a very small advantage for a huge price. ______________________________________________
Won't you give to the Minmatar Orphans of War Charities? With your generous donation of ore or isk, we can reunite a Minmatar slave with his family. |
Jim Steele
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Posted - 2006.02.27 21:48:00 -
[17]
Prices wil come down, they always do, persoanlly im aiming for a skiff, they only cost 60mil and can make much more than a hulk mining morphite..
500mil is silly and anyone who pays that amount is just fueling demand, 2-3months time they'll be 100mil or so, still expensive but more reasonable for the consumer.
Author of "The Apoc Guide" |
TerrorWOLF
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Posted - 2006.02.28 13:02:00 -
[18]
Did anyone see how much they can mine?? Some one did say to me 5-6% more then a covetor with lvl4 exhumers. 500 mil for that little more
May Your Death Be Slow And Painful
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.02.28 13:15:00 -
[19]
Originally by: TerrorWOLF Did anyone see how much they can mine?? Some one did say to me 5-6% more then a covetor with lvl4 exhumers. 500 mil for that little more
3% more per level I think
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Ghey Iislandur
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Posted - 2006.02.28 14:56:00 -
[20]
Isn't exhumers skill a level 8 or something?
While it's easy enough to get the first 3 levels, the next two are a bit more painful to attain.
20+ days for 3% extra mining with exhumers 5? Um ... no thanks.
t would be less costly to buy a 3-5% mining implant. ______________________________________________
Won't you give to the Minmatar Orphans of War Charities? With your generous donation of ore or isk, we can reunite a Minmatar slave with his family. |
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Anominity
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Posted - 2006.02.28 15:44:00 -
[21]
Forgive me if i am wrong, but from looking at the bonuses to the Hulk, you will get a straight 9% bonus over the Covetor (Exhumers 3) and you will have base resists of 53.125 EM, 81.25 Exp, 71.875 Kin, 62.5 Therm.
Now i would work out what is possible with this, but i need the info from one of you guys with regards, CPU / Grid after having 3 MSM2's fitted.
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Wee Dave
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Posted - 2006.02.28 16:33:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ghey Iislandur
Originally by: Wee Dave If you are mining in a covetor, you will already be mining in a group.
And I've seen it done. Eleven and a half hours, more or less. Mining in a 0.0 crokite system with an outpost or station will easily yield 40-50 million an hour even if you insta to and from the belt with your hulk, and in a popular system you won't need to tank yourself either. You can simply move belts and people will be npcing enough that there will always be belts free.
If it takes 30 hours to make it back, that's about 16 million per hour, which is an absurd underestimation of the profit you can make from mining crok.
I don't believe it's absurd at all. You might make about 40M an hour with straight crokite, but this assumes you are taking care of things for yourself which is really impossible in 0.0. You will have at least one partner - and you will most likely split the ore. On a good day, you'll get maybe 20M an hour with crok.
For one, you underestimate the time you'll be spending stopping the mining op to run from potential pvp'ers. Pvp'ers do tend to be attracted to ships that "cost" 500M if nothing more than the sheer pleasure of causing you the pain of the loss. Replacing even one of these would be a pain in the a$$ in deep 0.0. Pvp'ers are also attracted to systems with outposts, so if you want to mine without a lot of trouble in 0.0, you're really better off with a not-so-well known POS in some remote locale than painting an even bigger target on that fat mining ship by mining in a crowded system.
You might make the argument that the hulk mines faster than the covetor. That, plus the ability to at least not get your mining vessel destroyed by one or two NPC's might make the hulk worth 100M-150M or so (that is 5-7X as much as a normal covetor). But it is hardly worth 500M (25X more) unless you can warp to belt, tank the NPC's by yourself, fill your hold, then get away - again without assitance from anyone. Since you can't do this you're only getting a very small advantage for a huge price.
Firstly, this is what my corpmate has actually done. The price *has* been paid back.
Secondly, we have never had a problem with pvpers yet, though we are prepared for it. That's about 15 hours of running it now without interruption from a pvp character due to the times we mine at (mine in the day gmt and you will encounter very few pvpers at belts).
Thirdly, we aren't splitting the isk because I mine in a dominix which tanks the spawn comfortably. I'm already there - there's no additional work involved.
So, by your own logic, since they are mining alongside someone who is already there, they can keep the ore for themselves and don't need to tank at all. Therefore 40 million an hour, 11-12 hours work. Slightly less if you get a few good crystalline ores, slightly more if you have to frequently move belts. There's a refinery in the system so haulage is virtually non-existant.
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Wee Dave
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Posted - 2006.02.28 16:35:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Anominity Forgive me if i am wrong, but from looking at the bonuses to the Hulk, you will get a straight 9% bonus over the Covetor (Exhumers 3) and you will have base resists of 53.125 EM, 81.25 Exp, 71.875 Kin, 62.5 Therm.
Now i would work out what is possible with this, but i need the info from one of you guys with regards, CPU / Grid after having 3 MSM2's fitted.
Here are the stats:
Originally by: Hllaxiu Edited by: Hllaxiu on 19/02/2006 06:57:11 Since I have this more or less memorzed (what else is there to do while mining than seeing how uber one could mine?): Coveter: 360m3 (base MSM2) * 1.25 (mining 5) * 1.25 (astrogeology5) * 1.75 (tech 2 crystal modifier) * 1.15 (mining barge 5) * 1.05 (1 mining mod - all you can fit) * 3 lasers = 3565.898m3 Hulk: 360m3 (base MSM2) * 1.25 (mining 5) * 1.25 (astrogeology5) * 1.75 (tech 2 crystal modifier) * 1.15 (mining barge 5) *1.15 (exhumers 5) * 1.05^2 (2 mining mod - all you can fit IIRC) * 3 lasers = 4305.822m3
With a BC pilot with mining foreman 5, mining director 5 and a warfare link - 4510.861m3 and 5446.86m3 respectively. With the 5% implant and the previous, 4736.40m3 and 5719.20m3.
Feel free to correct me - I may be wrong on some parts, but these numbers roughly match what my corpmates get when mining (the base numbers that is)...
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GC13
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Posted - 2006.02.28 17:56:00 -
[24]
And all the posts on the break even point miss the point entirely: It's not about how fast you can mine 500M worth of ore, it's about how fast the difference between what you can mine in the Hulk and what you can mine in the Covetor adds up to the difference in price between the Hulk and the Covetor.
---
New to Eve? Interested in manufacturing stuff, or doing research on blueprints? Check out my fully-updated Science and Industry guide. |
Ghey Iislandur
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Posted - 2006.02.28 21:38:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Wee Dave
*snip
Thirdly, we aren't splitting the isk because I mine in a dominix which tanks the spawn comfortably. I'm already there - there's no additional work involved.
So, by your own logic, since they are mining alongside someone who is already there, they can keep the ore for themselves and don't need to tank at all. Therefore 40 million an hour, 11-12 hours work. Slightly less if you get a few good crystalline ores, slightly more if you have to frequently move belts. There's a refinery in the system so haulage is virtually non-existant.
The ore hauls itself now in 0.0?
______________________________________________
Won't you give to the Minmatar Orphans of War Charities? With your generous donation of ore or isk, we can reunite a Minmatar slave with his family. |
MWEI
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Posted - 2006.03.01 00:38:00 -
[26]
Why would anyone mine in 0.0 in a 500mil paper-armored hulk that only out mines a covetor by max 30%?
Yeah, if you are luckey you can survive there long enough to make break even, but are you sure you want to risk loosing 500mil? when, factoring in risk, you make way more money by mining with a dominx.
And if you find yourself in a group crokite mining op that has guarenteed sercuity, if i were you i will stick with my trusty apoc, -5mil per hour? to make sure i get 100% payout on my ship if it pops by any reason, its worth it.
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Lsv1
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Posted - 2006.03.01 01:23:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Lsv1 on 01/03/2006 01:23:45 Don't most people mine in 0.0 Alliance space? Where the gate camps are plentiful and chances of someone out of the Alliance owning you is nil?
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Fiddlestx
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Posted - 2006.03.01 02:20:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lsv1 Edited by: Lsv1 on 01/03/2006 01:23:45 Don't most people mine in 0.0 Alliance space? Where the gate camps are plentiful and chances of someone out of the Alliance owning you is nil?
I bet most 0.0 miners and npc'ers wished that were true. In all honesty you are never safe anywhere.
"To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands... the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." Sun Tsu
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