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Kirell
Treasure Hunter Enterprises
15
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Posted - 2013.11.26 05:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've noticed over the last few days since rubicon release that WH masses are not adding up.
I've been living in WH's for years. I use an orca to close it.
I've now had 3 wormholes back to back close early.
one was at 1.4 bil ( 2 orca trips and 2 BS trips) I then grabbed the orca and jumped through (totalling 1.65 bil mass put through) and boom it snapped shut. |
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
10
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Posted - 2013.11.26 07:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Hi there fellow carebear in C4. The only way you can be sure of the mass is if you are rage rolling. |
SalubriousSky Rinah
Cryptic Spear The Amalgamation Initiative
11
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Posted - 2013.12.16 21:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Kirell wrote:I've noticed over the last few days since rubicon release that WH masses are not adding up.
I've been living in WH's for years. I use an orca to close it.
I've now had 3 wormholes back to back close early.
one was at 1.4 bil ( 2 orca trips and 2 BS trips) I then grabbed the orca and jumped through (totalling 1.65 bil mass put through) and boom it snapped shut.
We too have been finding our mass calculations messed up as well...perhaps the reason they've added this sound wobble to the WHs is a clue that they have altered their characteristics.
It's more likely that they have altered the +/- mass varations...time will tell...although a few days ago we passed 3.2 bill mass through a supposed 2 bill mass WH. Go figure...then again, I can't remember if we were sober when we did it. |
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
87
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Posted - 2013.12.16 21:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
We just evicted some russian carebears from a C4/C4 and spent two days manipulating hole mass and rolling. It's been spot on for us with no problems. Join End-of-Line, -EOL, today, and kill your CEO! (Terms and conditions apply.)
http://imgur.com/yEQqAeb |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2497
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Posted - 2013.12.16 21:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
this is the easiest thing in the world to test. so when you come on the forums and go "this one time, in WH space, our unspecified random WH's mass was off" i'm just going to assume you don't know what youre doing.
for the record, I have not noticed any mass issues with any WHs. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
SalubriousSky Rinah
Cryptic Spear The Amalgamation Initiative
11
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Posted - 2013.12.16 22:10:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:this is the easiest thing in the world to test. so when you come on the forums and go "this one time, in WH space, our unspecified random WH's mass was off" i'm just going to assume you don't know what youre doing.
for the record, I have not noticed any mass issues with any WHs.
Yeah, we have no idea what we're doing...2 + 2 = 5 right? lolol...wait it's 3...oh damn...back to school
(and it's clear that you haven't closed as many holes as we have to make any sensible comment on the OP, poor fella) |
Glyndi
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
26
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Posted - 2013.12.16 22:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
SalubriousSky Rinah wrote:Jack Miton wrote:this is the easiest thing in the world to test. so when you come on the forums and go "this one time, in WH space, our unspecified random WH's mass was off" i'm just going to assume you don't know what youre doing.
for the record, I have not noticed any mass issues with any WHs. Yeah, we have no idea what we're doing...2 + 2 = 5 right? lolol...wait it's 3...oh damn...back to school (and it's clear that you haven't closed as many holes as we have to make any sensible comment on the OP, poor fella)
You sir are either really brave or truly have no idea what happens outside your bear den. Good Luck in WSpace. |
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
87
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Posted - 2013.12.16 23:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
SalubriousSky Rinah wrote:Jack Miton wrote:this is the easiest thing in the world to test. so when you come on the forums and go "this one time, in WH space, our unspecified random WH's mass was off" i'm just going to assume you don't know what youre doing.
for the record, I have not noticed any mass issues with any WHs. Yeah, we have no idea what we're doing...2 + 2 = 5 right? lolol...wait it's 3...oh damn...back to school (and it's clear that you haven't closed as many holes as we have to make any sensible comment on the OP, poor fella)
You really just told one of the major recognized PVP corps that they haven't rolled as many holes as you have...
Some of us have lived in wormhole space for years and regularly roll our hole hours on end just to find pvp. SUSU would be one of those groups.... Join End-of-Line, -EOL, today, and kill your CEO! (Terms and conditions apply.)
http://imgur.com/yEQqAeb |
Jack Miton
Semper Ubi Sub Ubi
2497
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Posted - 2013.12.16 23:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fellas, fellas, youre making me blush! Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Iyokus Patrouette
End-of-Line
62
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Posted - 2013.12.16 23:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Was this a thread about WH masses or future war targets? . . because i think it could be going either way right now.
Join End-of-Line, -EOL, today, and kill your CEO! (Terms and conditions apply.) |
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Proclus Diadochu
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
454
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Posted - 2013.12.17 00:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
We've had three holes close early for us recently.
Either Jonny can't mass or Disavowed invisa-ninja'd ships through while we were on the hole.
Glad to see it isn't just us. We, too, are terrible. Expensive Agent |
Jill Chastot
Modulated Dreams Against ALL Anomalies
56
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Posted - 2013.12.17 01:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jack here gives us some of the best blog reading for work. And i sincerely hope he stumbles into you. <3 would read |
Trinkets friend
Rules of Acquisition Acquisition Of Empire
1244
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Posted - 2013.12.17 05:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
hey, proc, we are really enjoying that orca you guys gifted us. Xmas came early! xxxooo YOLO is the Carpe Diem of Gen Y http://www.localectomy.blogspot.com.au
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Proclus Diadochu
Obstergo Red Coat Conspiracy
454
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Posted - 2013.12.17 05:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
No problem, TF, our dudes are all all cheerful and giving and stuff.
Also, Jonny says "you're welcome xoxoxo" Expensive Agent |
Random Woman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
87
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Posted - 2013.12.17 06:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Hmm had it a few times the other way around in the last 3-4 Months (never before that, except there was some unscheduled DT), WH wouldnt die, needed like 3-4 Orcas and 2 Carriers.
Wrote a petition on it, I am rather certain now nobody at CCP knows what W-Space is.
Think I only once had a WH close early, Moros got trapped, even though the hole was >50%. (Well not 10000% sure, but pretty sure it was over 50%) |
ExookiZ
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
113
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Posted - 2013.12.17 13:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
can't say weve had any issues with our C5, and we roll it 30+ times a day The Wormhole Kid |
Rall Mekin
End-of-Line
87
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Posted - 2013.12.17 15:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Random Woman wrote:Hmm had it a few times the other way around in the last 3-4 Months (never before that, except there was some unscheduled DT), WH wouldnt die, needed like 3-4 Orcas and 2 Carriers.
Wrote a petition on it, I am rather certain now nobody at CCP knows what W-Space is.
Think I only once had a WH close early, Moros got trapped, even though the hole was >50%. (Well not 10000% sure, but pretty sure it was over 50%)
Wormholes closing early have been observed by many individuals over a long time in wh history. They are kind of like the Bermuda triangle--mystical, not very substantiated by math, but nonetheless, a lot have claimed to see them. I also once saw a hole go halfway with an orca going in, and collapse when it came back (yes, it was halfway, not VOC). However, this event is extremely rare and not new.
We were rolling holes last night again. Again, its still normal for us math wise. Join End-of-Line, -EOL, today, and kill your CEO! (Terms and conditions apply.)
http://imgur.com/yEQqAeb |
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Surely You're Joking
13
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Posted - 2013.12.19 12:05:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sounds like common behaviour for statistics and probability. A Moros closing a not yet half mass wh is within the math that, assumed by the community, governs w-space. Same with orcas on the small wh's |
Elecitrickery
Anomalous Existence
0
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Posted - 2013.12.19 13:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
I suspect alcohol may be a factor in the change in mass on WH's .. or at least the calculation there of (we are in the "festive" season" after all) ..... sure is for me ...I tend to avoid being in charge of rolling after a beer .... or logi .. or pretty much anything that requires half an ounce of thought! |
Remy Nolen
Sama Guild
1
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Posted - 2013.12.19 15:43:00 -
[20] - Quote
After reading a few responses above, I'd just like to mention WH's can be finicky when rolling. You can't always trust the text... Especially if your are the only one on grid with the WH. For some damned reason, it decides to only update the text for the person that was already on grid. |
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Angsty Teenager
Broski North Black Legion.
187
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Posted - 2013.12.19 18:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
calaretu wrote:Sounds like common behaviour for statistics and probability. A Moros closing a not yet half mass wh is within the math that, assumed by the community, governs w-space. Same with orcas on the small wh's
What lol, this is not true. Unless I am mistaken (which I hope I'm not because I've rolled thousands of wormholes at this point), C5-C5's have 3 bil kg of mass, and a moros has 1.292 bil kg of mass. With 10% mass variance on the wormhole, at minimum the wormhole will have 2.7 bil kg of mass, and so at MINIMUM for it to show not under half mass it has to have 1,350,000,00.01 kg of mass. Meaning your moros (even if it has an MWD running) will never collapse a c5-c6, c5-c5, c6-c6, c6-null, c5-null, c6-lowsec, c5-lowsec, that is not under half mass by itself.
Also I have noticed nothing will regard to masses so I'm going to chalk this up to scrubs not realizing they're being stalked. |
Keith Planck
Sky Fighters
596
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Posted - 2013.12.19 19:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Wormhole Forums
A place where people post hilariously terribad things and get made fun of mercilessly. |
forsot
Resurrection Ventures Un.Bound
17
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Posted - 2013.12.19 19:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:calaretu wrote:Sounds like common behaviour for statistics and probability. A Moros closing a not yet half mass wh is within the math that, assumed by the community, governs w-space. Same with orcas on the small wh's What lol, this is not true. Unless I am mistaken (which I hope I'm not because I've rolled thousands of wormholes at this point), C5-C5's have 3 bil kg of mass, and a moros has 1.292 bil kg of mass. With 10% mass variance on the wormhole, at minimum the wormhole will have 2.7 bil kg of mass, and so at MINIMUM for it to show not under half mass it has to have 1,350,000,00.01 kg of mass. Meaning your moros (even if it has an MWD running) will never collapse a c5-c6, c5-c5, c6-c6, c6-null, c5-null, c6-lowsec, c5-lowsec, that is not under half mass by itself. Also I have noticed nothing will regard to masses so I'm going to chalk this up to scrubs not realizing they're being stalked.
My understanding was that the half mass and verge mark were always based on the expected total mass not the real mass. I could be wrong but thatGÇÖs just what I have observed, this would also give you a window of about 92mill where you can get a moros stuck. |
Red Garsk
18
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Posted - 2013.12.19 19:22:00 -
[24] - Quote
People can stick to the math and believe what ever... But every wormholer has seen unexplained things happen in regards to collapsing wormholes.
Heck, the close wormhole and spawn at the POS bug, has even saved my Orca ones... Can you explain this by math as well ?
I have see wormholes collapse sooner then they should have and some even later then they should have and it sometimes goes far beyond the 10%.
Simply put, people can stick to the math but I have seen so many posts from people regarding this issue and from what I have experienced myself, the math is not always what causes a wormhole to collapse or even stay open... Weirder things have happened. |
Angsty Teenager
Broski North Black Legion.
187
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Posted - 2013.12.20 06:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
Red Garsk wrote:People can stick to the math and believe what ever... But every wormholer has seen unexplained things happen in regards to collapsing wormholes.
Heck, the close wormhole and spawn at the POS bug, has even saved my Orca ones... Can you explain this by math as well ?
I have see wormholes collapse sooner then they should have and some even later then they should have and it sometimes goes far beyond the 10%.
Simply put, people can stick to the math but I have seen so many posts from people regarding this issue and from what I have experienced myself, the math is not always what causes a wormhole to collapse or even stay open... Weirder things have happened.
I agree that I have heard people who are (somewhat) trustworthy say it has taken more than 3.3bil kg of mass.
HOWEVER, I am of the opinion that these instances are bugs, and are a result of the server not registering one of the jumps for whatever reason. Maybe the jump is done at the same time as another, i.e. same tick and only one ends up counting. I have no idea and frankly don't care.
Like I said before, I am 100% confident in the current wormhole math that is generally accepted entirely because I have rolled thousands (i'm not exaggerating here) of c5-c5's and NEVER had an issue getting it to collapse as expected. My collapsing method puts exactly 3.358 bil kg of mass through the wormhole, and I have never seen it take more while I have been collapsing. My only experience with it taking more is with other people collapsing it and talking about it. |
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