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Dieterlin
Aphis LLC
0
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Posted - 2013.11.27 11:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
In EVE, mining is an activity where active player participation doesn't make much of a difference to how much ore you get. To sit at your keyboard and watch the laser cycle over is a waste of time - nothing you can do as a player (outside the fitting window) will really make a difference to how much ore you find in your hold every few minutes. The risk/reward tradeoff for mining in more dangerous space is just plain bad given how vulnerable mining ships are. These two factors lie at the heart of AFK mining and botting, where the miner avoids the terrible gameplay of mining by not actually playing the game while mining.
I think that such a fundamental part of the EVE economy should have deeper and more engaging gameplay than the current mining system offers, and that there should be a worthwhile risk/reward tradeoff for taking a barge into dangerous space.
My proposal is to add a new kind of mining ("Blast mining") to the game that hopefully avoids the failures of the old system while encouraging miners to take more risks, mine more ore, and create a more engaging experience for everyone involved.
Blast mining pretty much exactly what it sounds like - blowing asteroids to smithereens and scooping up the little bits left over. Instead of using mining lasers to vaporize and retrieve ore, the barge equips a specialized explosive charge launcher and drags around one of the new auto-tractor deployables. When the miner targets an asteroid with this launcher, he gets a zoomed-in view of the asteroid (similar to planet view in PI) with an overlay of surface faults and mineral density. The miner selects between one and three areas on the asteroid (one for each launcher, up to three launchers) to be struck, and the minerals within a fixed radius of those points are lost, and the asteroid takes damage depending on what faults were struck. Once the asteroid has zero HP, it cracks into chunks and the auto-tractor pulls in what's left. Careless charge placement will result in poor yield, perfect placement will give you the whole asteroid's ore. Smaller asteroids might fall entirely within the destruction radius of a charge, and produce no ore at all with blast mining, whereas larger asteroids need more charges to break, but more ore survives.
Tech 1 blast miners are very imprecise, with poor mineral conservation. Tech 2 require an exhumer, but load improved charges with greatly improved precision and damage.
Now, the interesting bit: Blast mining produces a powerful smartbomb-like AOE damage around the asteroid, and if anyone is damaged by the blast, CONCORD consider it aggression and destroy the barge. As such, it is very inadvisable to blast-mine in hisec with non-corpmates nearby, but blast mining in lowsec or nullsec allows for unprecedented yields, averaging more than double or triple the ore/hour achievable with strip miners.
Hopefully, this will encourage low/nullsec industry, with cheap ores available for whatever corp/alliance can keep it's miners alive, and miners might make tempting targets for small gangs to attack and defend. The system will discourage AFK mining, because using more active mining techniques will improve your yield. Botters will either switch over to blast mining, meaning that their bots will be super easy to kill (via CONCORD) or be stuck with laser-mining, which is less efficient. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1209
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Posted - 2013.11.27 12:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
I do believe I have to give this idea a +1.
This sounds incredibly more interesting than the current method of mining.
It will also lead to a new type of highsec miner ganking that requires absolutely no sec status hit and will result in multi-billions of Concordokkened ISK and sec status penalties. I'm not much of a ganker but even I can see that it will be glorious. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1179
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Posted - 2013.11.27 12:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 for bots -1 for active players that enjoy passive mining
Can we keep the tedious minigames out of eve? ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
77
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Posted - 2013.11.27 20:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Perhaps we should consider having both systems: the old one for a more passive, steady, but less profitable style, and this new blast mining you propose for a more active and profitable way of mining. That way we'll all be happy.
I really like your idea! |
Gigan Amilupar
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
69
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Posted - 2013.11.27 20:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Yeah, I agree. Lets keep mining lasers, but make blast mining a more rewarding, more active way to mine.
+1 |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Insidious Empire
3265
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Posted - 2013.11.27 20:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Komodo Askold wrote:Perhaps we should consider having both systems: the old one for a more passive, steady, but less profitable style, and this new blast mining you propose for a more active and profitable way of mining. That way we'll all be happy.
I really like your idea! This sounds like a good approach, IMHO
+1 Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence So Local Chat vanished, now what? |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2240
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Posted - 2013.11.27 20:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Needs more scatter mechanics. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
448
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Posted - 2013.11.28 00:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
While I do appreciarte adding new types of mining to the game I think "blast mining" should never replace what we have. That said as long as they can balance it with the current system I say great. Maybe we could make blast mining specific to a certain types of new ore or make it modify the molecular state of current ore to create new useful alloy. -á-á- remove the cloaked from local; free intel is the real problem, not-á "afk" cloaking-á-
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Dr0000 Maulerant
Union Nanide and Tooling
83
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Posted - 2013.11.28 01:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Did anyone else see the tech demo of (basically this idea) for EVE? it was a UNITY mockup with an asteroid minigame where you could do AOE attacks and scoop ore, you had to keep an eye on heat buildup in the asteroid etc...
It was similar to this idea, and freaking awesome. But all the great mining ideas seem to be promptly shelved for some reason....
+1 for this as an optional mode just in case Tell me again about how every playstyle you dont engage in "doesn't require any effort" and everyone who does it needs to die in a fire. Be sure to mention about how you tried it once but it was too easy/boring/ethnic-homophobic slur.-á |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1224
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Posted - 2013.11.28 01:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:+1 for bots -1 for active players that enjoy passive mining
Can we keep the tedious minigames out of eve?
Pray tell how this benefits bots in any way.
For the rest of you:
Did you all miss the part where he says that this new "blast mining" system would co-exist alongside the existing laser mining system? Also, if you read carefully you can tell that OP says "mining lasers" but is referring to strip miners. |
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Marc McIntyre Crendraven
The Knights of Retribution
32
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Posted - 2013.11.28 01:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
I also like the idea, with some refining it could be a great addition to an otherwise boring profession Eat Lead!!! Err....Antimatter...whatever! |
Dieterlin
Aphis LLC
7
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Posted - 2013.11.28 02:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Sentamon wrote:+1 for bots -1 for active players that enjoy passive mining
Can we keep the tedious minigames out of eve? Pray tell how this benefits bots in any way. For the rest of you:Did you all miss the part where he says that this new "blast mining" system would co-exist alongside the existing laser mining system? Also, if you read carefully you can tell that OP says "mining lasers" but is referring to strip miners.
Oh yeah, I guess I didn't phrase that bit as well as I could have. OP Edited. |
Dieterlin
Aphis LLC
7
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Posted - 2013.11.28 02:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Needs more scatter mechanics.
Yeah, I don't actually like the hacking scatter-cans either. That's why I suggested that the exploded asteroid chunks be targeted by the auto-tractor deployable, so that the miner doesn't get RSI from manually clicking ten thousand little moving space-rocks. |
Zerlestes
Mechanized Industrial Warfare Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
5
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Posted - 2013.11.28 05:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
hold the miningames out of eve -1 for miningames |
Seranova Farreach
Lion Squadron
454
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Posted - 2013.11.28 05:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
maybe look at the gas harvesters and their info and how they used to be used for mineing or what not.. and they could be "reconfigured" to have an area of influance to draw the blasted roid peices toward you.
as for the blast its self.. maybe look at the old "Mines" and think "bomb launchers" too like launching a LIMPET style mine which will attach to a roid if you were aligned correctly and would have an aoe and destroy the roids around the blast of like 5km perhaps? |
Lion Ahishatsu
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.11.28 05:52:00 -
[16] - Quote
if you aint a miner, dont suggest changes to mining, and if you ARE a miner and dont like the mechanics, then maybe you should be trying a different area of EVE rather than telling everyone they are playing WRONG.
mining is ok and dosnt need to be changed the point in mining is that you dont need to pay attention to the game every second
my joy in mining is to get the last % Yield out of my setup and i dosnt mean my ship my fleet i Multibox with 6 accs without extra Software like is boxer and dont ever bother me with bots and bots are so easy to make for mining
Anos and Missions arent that more entertaining if you fly them long enough |
Jasmine Assasin
State War Academy Caldari State
122
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Posted - 2013.11.28 06:23:00 -
[17] - Quote
Lion Ahishatsu wrote:if you aint a miner, dont suggest changes to mining, and if you ARE a miner and dont like the mechanics, then maybe you should be trying a different area of EVE rather than telling everyone they are playing WRONG.
mining is ok and dosnt need to be changed the point in mining is that you dont need to pay attention to the game every second
my joy in mining is to get the last % Yield out of my setup and i dosnt mean my ship my fleet i Multibox with 6 accs without extra Software like is boxer and dont ever bother me with bots and bots are so easy to make for mining
Anos and Missions arent that more entertaining if you fly them long enough
You can keep mining like you are now.
But people that want more and are willing to put in the effort will be suitably rewarded.
+1 |
Lion Ahishatsu
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.11.28 06:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
the whole reward the active players idea need to be balanced it cant be that 1 aktive player makes more than 2 or 3 players using the not so aktive way |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS type X
97
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Posted - 2013.11.28 09:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
There are wh corps that mine almost exactly as you desire it is just sleepers they 'mine' and not ore.
Leave mining as is no additions no subtractions. Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really. |
Dieterlin
Aphis LLC
9
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Posted - 2013.11.28 09:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lion Ahishatsu wrote:if you aint a miner, dont suggest changes to mining, and if you ARE a miner and dont like the mechanics, then maybe you should be trying a different area of EVE rather than telling everyone they are playing WRONG.
mining is ok and dosnt need to be changed the point in mining is that you dont need to pay attention to the game every second
my joy in mining is to get the last % Yield out of my setup and i dosnt mean my ship my fleet i Multibox with 6 accs without extra Software like is boxer and dont ever bother me with bots and bots are so easy to make for mining
Anos and Missions arent that more entertaining if you fly them long enough
I tried mining when I first started EVE in 2009. I was part of an industrial corp, flying my shiny new retriever in Caldari hisec with orca boosts and a dedicated hauler and everything. After a month or two, I got sick of it and moved on to what seemed more interesting at the time.
I think that people who take the risks inherent in flying a slow, defenseless and expensive exhumer outside of hisec ought to have a worthwhile reward for their efforts. Right now, a max-skilled high-yield hulk working with Orca boosts mining Hedbergite in null really doesn't make enough ISK/hr for it to be worthwhile - around 40M /hr, according to EVE Isk Per Hour if he refines with perfect standings in hisec and sells the minerals at Jita.
Given that he's risking a 200M hull that aligns slower than a plated abaddon with no real defenses, this reward seems inadequate. In exchange for being an easy target doing a dull activity, your reward is mediocre isk/hr and loads of skills that don't transfer over to any other part of the game. If you have to pay someone to haul for you or guard you, you earn even less! The current risk/reward for mining is clearly a bad deal for miners. Other professions, such as exploration and combat, offer hugely increased rewards for operating in more dangerous space. I think that miners ought to have a worthwhile risk/reward tradeoff as well. |
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Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
623
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Posted - 2013.11.28 10:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Sounds interesting, I'd support that.
Will it be possible to rig entire asteroid fields to explode on the push of a button? Stupidity should be a bannable offense.
Also This --> https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=216699 Please stop making "afk cloak" threads, thanks in advance. |
Dieterlin
Aphis LLC
11
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Posted - 2013.11.28 10:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Sounds interesting, I'd support that.
Will it be possible to rig entire asteroid fields to explode on the push of a button?
Well, for balance purposes, the mining charge launchers would probably need a relatively long cycle time (~30 seconds, like large artillery?) but hypothetically, I don't see why a sufficiently large and dedicated group of people in mining barges shouldn't be able to rig the whole field. It might lead to some hilarious joke PVP tactics, but I don't think it would be at all practical. |
HindSight Pergatory
New Eden Order Sev3rance
16
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Posted - 2013.11.29 19:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
In all honesty, mining does suck. Plain and simple. If youre in high sec its boring, if your in null, its boring, if youre in... well you get the idea. Mining isnt the part of EVE that was intended to be fun.. its WORK. if youre looking to just make isk... go fit a BS and start null-sec ratting anoms or doing plex's. flying a Hulk for 40 million an hour.. i can make that in 20 minutes ratting anoms and having my alt salvage behind me. Mining is interesting enough with all the idiot RP hi-sec gankers that like to blather on about how theres a "code" that must be followed and how they will "Cleanse" the defilers of the "Code".. ffs go back to your windowless vans and sit outside the middle schools. AFK mining is no more offensive than parking your cov-ops bomber in red space while you sleep and go to work in an effort to be "that guy" and go back and say to your corp " herp-a-derp-derp, i made them all scared to come out.. tee-hee". mining is what it has been for ages... a "job". you want fun.. go skill a cruiser and pew in red space for a while.. see how long it takes you to go back to mining once you bag 4 or 5 KM's. |
Thirtythousand
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2013.11.29 21:30:00 -
[24] - Quote
A big issue you struck is the underlying issue I have with eve.
I'm PLAYING eve to PLAY eve. I love the hacking mini game. Not a fan of the lootsplosion but oh well. In missions you actively fly the ship and manage the fights.
I'm totally for greatly rewarding people for actually playing vs not doing anything and making money.
The aoe damage part could be left out. Just increase ore drop value in lowesec null and Wh.
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Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1255
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 21:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
If you want mining to be more lucrative, gank other miners or pay mercs to gank them. Destroyed mining ships and miners who aren't producing means the ore prices go up.
Get out of your retriever and get into a catalyst. Take a stand against your fellow miner. How dare he try to cut into your earnings? Teach him what it's like to wake up in a new clone. Educate him about the evils of being your competitor for ore production. Let the searing heat of plasma fire purge away his malice towards miners, his desires to keep their profession low-wage, his wanton destruction of ore values.
Only when miner has turned upon miner, only when they battle for violent supremacy amidst the cold ore, only when industrial warfare actually involves warfare, only when you can tell the successful harvesters by the blood, pod fluid and tears that stain their barges, exhumers and Orcas, only then shall the miners of New Eden reap the rewards they so richly deserve.
The future is there. It is waiting for you, calling to you, beckoning you to it. But you must claim it before the miner beside you does. You must rise up, you must show your strength is superior to his, you must lay him low that he would fear you and abandon his jetcans in his haste to flee from your very shadow. Then shall Fortune lay her gifts at your feet.
The time is now.
Miners, you must rise. |
Lion Ahishatsu
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.11.29 22:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
again hold the minigames out of eve mining itself dosnt need a change if you dont like it dont mine there are so much more options besides mining
i like mining the way it is the only reason mining isnt so good to make isk is that mining is one of the few profesions where other players pay the isk not a npc |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1256
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 22:11:00 -
[27] - Quote
My apologies, Lion Ahishatsu, but you are mistaken. Mining is, to put it bluntly, *****. Droppings. Excrement. ****.
Mining in eve is the most boring thing ever devised by the mind of man. The only thing that could possibly be good about mining is that it lends itself especially well to ISBotter usage.
It needs a change. it needs to not be the Sominex of EVE Online. It needs to promote active, entertaining, involving, engaging gameplay. It needs to be worth staying at the keyboard, in the room, in your house for. Do you realize there are people who will set up a mining barge and go to the store while their barge mines completely unattended? How is that fine? How does that not need a change? Don't give me any of this "if you don't like it don't do it" or "what business is it of yours what people do" nonsense, because neither of those things are the point.
Don't deflect the question. Don't ignore the topic. Mining is terrible, full stop. |
Gimme more Cynos
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
86
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Posted - 2013.11.29 22:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
If you don't like to mine, don't do it. What's the issue with it?
There are people which like to mine - and it's not as terrible if you mine with Rorq-supported hulks. Cycling through roids while beeing effectively in Large, X-Large or Giant-clusters is not as bad as you say it is.
What you complain about is just the mack, and not mining itself. The mack with it's hilariously OP cargohold, which lasts for half an hour atleast. Yes, this is a problem - mining itself isn't.
Oh, and everyone has different flavours - for me, I think roaming for hours on the hunt for targets is booring - while mining is relaxation. I don't think mining is terrible. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd CAStabouts
1256
|
Posted - 2013.11.29 22:26:00 -
[29] - Quote
What I complain about is the mining, not the Mack. I've never owned a mack and I can't even fly one. I have a Procurer that gets used from time to time (I have no idea why) but the bulk of any mining I do gets done in a Venture.
It's boring. It's passive. People macro it and bot it for a reason. |
Lion Ahishatsu
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2013.11.29 22:27:00 -
[30] - Quote
the point in mining is that you dont need to look at the barge every second it is more afk since the mack and retriever have so much more cargo BUT ccp changed mining to more afk
I have fun mining because i can get more yield with more efford i mine and only mine in eve my isk are only for skills barges and plex for my accs and if someone thinks mining needs a change its to afk than dont mine if mining gets some minigame my playstyle cant be maintaint and that is ****
my joy is to get the last % out of my setup i use all my isk for my mining fleet for new accs new ships new skills and only because some people mine afk mining needs to be changed? Anos and Missions arent that much more entertaining after you fly a mission hundret of times or a anno
change the mack and retriever and fuilltime afk minng meets its end |
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