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Soft Step
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.11.28 13:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
Please keep in mind that this post is slightly vague due to my own ignorance, but I have some issues with current freighter design. Anyone's welcome to contribute to this.
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Looking at the freighters, you have a progression between the four ships from "big and slow" to "small and fast". When I say slow I mean both slow alignment and slow subwarp speed. When I say big I mean most cargo space.
Issue) Too little differentiation between freighters.
Freighters are similar to each other in every aspect. They're all within 20% of each other's cost, so there's no real cost savings to taking a particular freighter.
They all carry within 15% of each other's cargo. The result is that there will be few times when you need to take a second trip and even fewer times when you need to take two or more extra trips by choosing one over the other.
While the Fenrir and the Charon are most different, being at opposite ends of the designed spectrum, there doesn't seem to be a reason for the other two freighters to be in the game.
Here are some ideas for how to change the other two freighters to make them more unique:
(Some of these are mutually exclusive. That's fine; it's just brainstorming.)
*Separate fast alignment and fast subwarp speed. This will separate the best freighter for saving at-keyboard pilot time and the best freighter for autopiloting. If the fenrir was spinny (fast align) but slow (subwarp speed) you'd use that one when you were moving stuff to your pos or whatever, and you'd change the design of one of the middle freighters to have good subwarp speed for autopiloting but it doesn't spin as fast. Now three freighters would have a purpose instead of two.
*Give one of the freighters more cargo room. The Charon's full load of tritanium is about 450m value right now. Why not double (or triple) its cargo space? People will still use the autopilot freighters for their speed, since the normal limitation is cargo value. The Charon's specialization in this case would change its function enough to make it extremely useful for hauling minerals.
*Make one of the freighter's a half-freighter. Half EHP, same speed, half cargo. HALF COST. This would allow noobs to get into freighters faster.
*Make one of the freighters a sturdy freighter. Double cost, half cargo space, double EHP.
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I acknowledge that there would be legacy issues with any change in present design.
Right now it just seems that we really only have 2 freighters, which is sad for me because I love the look of the space-beetle (Providence). It seems actually that the Fenrir is the clear winner and the rest of the freighters are kinda useless.
Anyone agree/disagree? Any other ideas in how to differentiate the freighters? |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2092
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Posted - 2013.11.28 14:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Increasing the load of a freighter over 1 million m3 isn't going to happen. Because it would allow people to sneak carriers into highsec. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
78512
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Posted - 2013.11.28 14:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Charon - largest Cargohold, least agility.
Fenrir - smallest Cargohold, fastest velocity and greatest agility.
Providence - 2nd most agile, 2nd highest EHP.
Obelisk - greatest EHP.
It's your choice. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Soft Step
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.11.28 18:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
Please give me a specific instance where you would prefer a Providence over a Fenrir or a Charon. |
Soft Step
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.11.28 19:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Increasing the load of a freighter over 1 million m3 isn't going to happen. Because it would allow people to sneak carriers into highsec.
Could we increase the size of carriers? |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
445
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Posted - 2013.11.28 19:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Soft Step wrote:*Make one of the freighter's a half-freighter. Half EHP, same speed, half cargo. HALF COST. This would allow noobs to get into freighters faster.
Half cost for a noob freighter? Good idea... oh wait... no!
Half cost, that would be about 600m. That's what a freighter cost back when I was a noob. Piloting a 600m sitting duck was a bad idea for a noob back then. It still is today imo.
Soft Step wrote:Anyone agree/disagree? Any other ideas in how to differentiate the freighters? Yes. New additional freighters. All this probably won't happen for some time though. T2 and T3 will be balanced before they get to capitals.
Remove insurance. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
2304
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Posted - 2013.11.28 21:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Soft Step wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Increasing the load of a freighter over 1 million m3 isn't going to happen. Because it would allow people to sneak carriers into highsec. Could we increase the size of carriers? Then you'd have to change wormholes. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2094
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Posted - 2013.11.28 21:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
And CSMAs Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Louis Robichaud
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
66
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Posted - 2013.11.28 23:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
I think the OP has a point, the freighters are indeed very similar... But I am not sure that changing the existing ships is the best way forward. With the industrials it wasn't too big a deal since those ships are cheap. However, freighters are significant investments and having your freighter completely changed on you will sting for some.
That being said, overall diversity is good. Not sure freighters are, or should be, a priority for CCP. |
Billy Hix
Team JK
1
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Posted - 2013.11.29 00:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Louis Robichaud wrote:That being said, overall diversity is good. Not sure freighters are, or should be, a priority for CCP.
Nothing wrong with giving the Industry guys n girls a little love from time to time.
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Anders Madeveda
Sturmgrenadier Inc
0
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Posted - 2013.11.29 04:33:00 -
[11] - Quote
I'd like to see a mid level freighter line that sacrifices some of the m3 capacity but increses the speed/agility of the full size. The current offering for transporting goods has a glaring hole in the middle(yes I know their is a Jump Freighter but its 5-6x the cost of its larger counterpart)
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Chic Botany
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
64
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Posted - 2013.11.29 08:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
They could develop some freighter specific rigs to give some flexibility
Boost agility and the expense of tank Boost cargo at the expense of agility Boost tank at the expense of agility and cargo etc
There must be flags set somewhere as to what can and cannot be put in a freighter, you can't put unpackaged containers (with the exception of freight containers) in a freighter, so if they can do that then they can do the same for carriers.
Yes freighters are all much of a muchness, but can you imagine the fury if they suddenly changed the charon from being the biggest but slowest to a smaller more nimble ship?
There has been calls for mid-ground freighters for years, they brought in the orca which has a reasonable cargo-hold, then they brought in jump-freighters with the ability to use cyno's to get around as well as gates. Then they tweaked the T2 haulers with a few changes. Then they brought in the tweak to T1 industrials giving the gallente range some love as well as the others.
But no change for freighters.
This game could really do with a logistics over-haul, the ability to tow a ship so you can move a rigged battleship around (base tank only, not taking into account player skills since there's no pilot)
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RAW23
564
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Posted - 2013.11.29 09:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
Soft Step wrote:Please give me a specific instance where you would prefer a Providence over a Fenrir or a Charon.
I once had to do regular runs from near Rens to Jita. The volume was about 200k and I had to do the round trip every day at least once. I MUCH preferred the Providence. Niche case but still ... There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
55
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Posted - 2013.11.29 10:00:00 -
[14] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Charon - largest Cargohold, least agility. Fenrir - smallest Cargohold, fastest velocity and greatest agility. Providence - 2nd most agile, 2nd highest EHP. Obelisk - greatest EHP. It's your choice.
The four freighters do have differing characteristics as Krixtal has pointed out. I think the Obelisk is probably the most popular although I personally like the 'Jawa-mobile'.......... I mean Fenrir the most. Not that I can fly one.
As I have said too many times before it might be nice to have a half range mid-sized freighter set of four as well. But if that would result in 'extra materials being added to freighter BPO material requirements and freighter production being borked for a considerable length of time then I would rather not have it.
The four freighters are different and if you are prepared to fly them properly ie not afk and on autopilot then there is not too much risk of you being suicide ganked. Ganking is a major part of EVE Online, not that I have anything to do with such activities, and EVE would not be the same without it. Fly safe. :)
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Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
47
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Posted - 2013.11.29 10:35:00 -
[15] - Quote
Soft Step wrote:Please give me a specific instance where you would prefer a Providence over a Fenrir or a Charon.
It looks much better :)
@Topic: Why is there a need to differentiate freighters? I really don't see that. They are there to transport bigger amounts. That's what they do. Why the hell should there be a difference. Half Cargo at half price? Why? To help Noobs getting faster into them? 2 weeks later they will recognise that the space is not enough and have to buy the bigger one anyway.
I don't see any necessity to change anything on Industrials and Freighters. Everything is fine and is working.
Edit: Small volume and cheap --> T1 Industrial Small Volume and expensive --> T2 Blockade Runner Medium Volume --> Orca (it travels as well very fast with same / more EHP like a freighter!) Large Volume --> Freighter
For Lowsec and Nullsec use accordingly Jumpfreighter or T2 Industrial
Don't see where there is need to fit something in between of above options where we would need a new freighter (class).
Edit2: Before you suggest one option bear in mind, this is not "My little Pony", but EVE |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
78727
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Posted - 2013.11.29 13:36:00 -
[16] - Quote
Soft Step wrote:Please give me a specific instance where you would prefer a Providence over a Fenrir or a Charon.
Dude...you are the one asking for information. YOU decide for yourself.
Enjoy the game. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
78727
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Posted - 2013.11.29 13:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Soft Step wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Increasing the load of a freighter over 1 million m3 isn't going to happen. Because it would allow people to sneak carriers into highsec. Could we increase the size of carriers?
Now, you are just drunk. "He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."-á - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882 |
Soft Step
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.11.29 15:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Soft Step wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Increasing the load of a freighter over 1 million m3 isn't going to happen. Because it would allow people to sneak carriers into highsec. Could we increase the size of carriers? Then you'd have to change wormholes.
><
I'm not a WH player but I thought the WH travel was based on mass. |
Soft Step
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2013.11.29 15:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:Soft Step wrote:Please give me a specific instance where you would prefer a Providence over a Fenrir or a Charon. I once had to do regular runs from near Rens to Jita. The volume was about 200k and I had to do the round trip every day at least once. I MUCH preferred the Providence. Niche case but still ...
Pretty sure you should have used a Fenrir for that. |
Huttan Funaila
Terminal Radioactivity Spaceship Samurai
229
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Posted - 2013.11.29 16:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Soft Step wrote:Please give me a specific instance where you would prefer a Providence over a Fenrir or a Charon. The Providence is prettier. The Fenrir looks like it is full of Jawas and stolen droids. And the Charon looks like Piet Mondrian didn't finish painting it. |
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Milan Nantucket
New Eden Misfits
88
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Posted - 2013.12.02 22:01:00 -
[21] - Quote
You have a midlevel freighter that does all that. You can have around 100,000 m3 and it costs on average 600m....
Its called an Orca fit with cargo rigs and expanders with your skills to 5.... |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
375
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Posted - 2013.12.02 22:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:Soft Step wrote:Please give me a specific instance where you would prefer a Providence over a Fenrir or a Charon. It looks much better :) @Topic: Why is there a need to differentiate freighters? I really don't see that. They are there to transport bigger amounts. That's what they do. Why the hell should there be a difference. Half Cargo at half price? Why? To help Noobs getting faster into them? 2 weeks later they will recognise that the space is not enough and have to buy the bigger one anyway. I don't see any necessity to change anything on Industrials and Freighters. Everything is fine and is working. Edit: Small volume and cheap --> T1 Industrial Small Volume and expensive --> T2 Blockade Runner Medium Volume --> Orca (it travels as well very fast with same / more EHP like a freighter!) Large Volume --> Freighter For Lowsec and Nullsec use accordingly Jumpfreighter or T2 Industrial Don't see where there is need to fit something in between of above options where we would need a new freighter (class). Edit2: Before you suggest one option bear in mind, this is not "My little Pony", but EVE
Small volume and cheap --> T1 Industrial ~50,000 m/3 Small Volume and expensive --> T2 Blockade Runner 4,000 -25,000 m/3 Medium Volume --> Orca (it travels as well very fast with same / more EHP like a freighter!) up to 200,000 m/3 ...................................................400,000 - 600,000 m/3 Large Volume --> Freighter ~970,000 m/3
also there are many MLP corps/players out there, and almost as many as Hello Kitty Online references. Eve it seems is partly inhabited by furries. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Fluffi Flaffi
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
48
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Posted - 2013.12.03 12:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:...................................................400,000 - 600,000 m/3 Large Volume --> Freighter ~970,000 m/3
400k - 600k is large volume as well. I haven't found a restriction I can't undock my Providences without being fully loaded. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
378
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Posted - 2013.12.24 05:41:00 -
[24] - Quote
Fluffi Flaffi wrote:Kusum Fawn wrote:...................................................400,000 - 600,000 m/3 Large Volume --> Freighter ~970,000 m/3
400k - 600k is large volume as well. I haven't found a restriction I can't undock my Providences without being fully loaded.
This is true for any cargo volume size. You may if you wish, undock an empty freighter. This does not mean that all industrials under the freighter size are irrelevant, and does not mean that there is not a need for another industrial in between orca and freighter. Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
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Daenika
MMO-Mechanics.com
33
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Posted - 2013.12.25 23:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
Quote:Then you'd have to change wormholes.
Wormholes are based on mass, not volume. You could increase a carrier's volume by 2 orders of magnitude and it wouldn't make a lick of difference for wormhole limits.
Storing them in XL SMAs, on the other hand... |
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