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Sleeper Cell Agent
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.12.01 14:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi
It's a serious question
For instance, a corp is decked by P I R A T alliance, T3/faction BS pilots.
They contact wh0res in Space, Marmite and are told "sorry, we are allied with these guys, we can't help you"
Now forgive me if im wrong but the meaning of MERCENARY is they have no loyalty's to anyone but ISK.
What is the point of being a mercenary alliance if you won't take contracts agaisnt viable targets that will actually fight?
Because from where im standing, Marmite, P I R A T and Wh0res are cowards who only deck targets that can't fight back.
How can they call themselves mercs when they wont fight actual mercs, which is stupid
??
Please, sumone explain this to me, cause atm i feel nothing but contempt for these alliances. |
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts. Break-A-Wish Foundation
1150
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Posted - 2013.12.01 15:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mercs have friends too and sometimes those relationships are more valuable than your tiny amount of isk.
Also, Wh0res is still a thing? I'm Denzel Washington, and I play chess. |
Haedonism Bot
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
495
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Posted - 2013.12.01 15:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
There are more mercs out there than just Marmite and Whores. Why cry on the forums that these particular alliances won't do what you want instead of looking for somebody who will? everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com |
Subject 4927
The Rejected.
16
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Posted - 2013.12.01 16:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
The amount of Merc corps who would fight Marmite, PIRAT, and all the others is rather large.
So i suggest you contract a smaller corp to protect you and your mining lazers. |
Anya Klibor
Error-404 Cup Of ConKrete.
543
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 17:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:Mercs have friends too and sometimes those relationships are more valuable than your tiny amount of isk.
Also, Wh0res is still a thing?
No, that's not it at all. I remember Zeus Maximo starting a shitstorm on these forums because Marmite joined a war against them as allies of a defender, demanding that mercs "honor the contracts of other mercs". In essence, Zeus laid the foundation of this whole "blue donut" bullshit for high sec, where-by the larger mercenary alliances wouldn't help against each other because then, ships could be lost for both sides! |
Sleeper Cell Agent
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.12.01 17:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:Tah'ris Khlador wrote:Mercs have friends too and sometimes those relationships are more valuable than your tiny amount of isk.
Also, Wh0res is still a thing? No, that's not it at all. I remember Zeus Maximo starting a shitstorm on these forums because Marmite joined a war against them as allies of a defender, demanding that mercs "honor the contracts of other mercs". In essence, Zeus laid the foundation of this whole "blue donut" bullshit for high sec, where-by the larger mercenary alliances wouldn't help against each other because then, ships could be lost for both sides!
Kinda proves my point
mercs do not blue other mercs
ffs MC had BOB n two other corps blue n that was it, we took merc contracts against anyone
These *mercs* are a joke |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2165
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Posted - 2013.12.01 17:46:00 -
[7] - Quote
Because even High Sec needs a blue list. |
Anya Klibor
Error-404 Cup Of ConKrete.
543
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 17:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Because even High Sec needs a blue list.
To be fair, my alliance has a few people "blue", and that's only because we help one another when **** hits the fan. Kind of a mutual defense pact where we aid one another. |
Brorr Liason
Maraque Enterprises SteRoid.
43
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 17:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Mercenary: One who serves or works merely for monetary gain; a hireling
Odd this, no where in its definition does it say they have no contacts, friends or alliances.
As far as I know, when you contact an entity to hire them, they have the right to refuse service for any reason including, but not limited to the status relationship between your group, your enemy and the standings of the mercenary to both.
I also hear there are only a few merc groups............................ |
Anya Klibor
Error-404 Cup Of ConKrete.
543
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 17:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Sleeper Cell Agent wrote:Anya Klibor wrote:Tah'ris Khlador wrote:Mercs have friends too and sometimes those relationships are more valuable than your tiny amount of isk.
Also, Wh0res is still a thing? No, that's not it at all. I remember Zeus Maximo starting a shitstorm on these forums because Marmite joined a war against them as allies of a defender, demanding that mercs "honor the contracts of other mercs". In essence, Zeus laid the foundation of this whole "blue donut" bullshit for high sec, where-by the larger mercenary alliances wouldn't help against each other because then, ships could be lost for both sides! Kinda proves my point mercs do not blue other mercs ffs MC had BOB n two other corps blue n that was it, we took merc contracts against anyone These *mercs* are a joke
There was a time when mercs would fight other mercs, because it was part of the job. They didn't whine about it, they just did it. Of course, those mercs were also less likely to fly their faction-fit Vindicators because they generally understood that they might lose it really quick. So yes, I'd agree with you that mercenary coalitions like this are a joke. |
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Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts. Break-A-Wish Foundation
1150
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 19:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:Tah'ris Khlador wrote:Mercs have friends too and sometimes those relationships are more valuable than your tiny amount of isk.
Also, Wh0res is still a thing? No, that's not it at all. I remember Zeus Maximo starting a shitstorm on these forums because Marmite joined a war against them as allies of a defender, demanding that mercs "honor the contracts of other mercs". In essence, Zeus laid the foundation of this whole "blue donut" bullshit for high sec, where-by the larger mercenary alliances wouldn't help against each other because then, ships could be lost for both sides!
Confirming that Anya Klibor, the master of Merc Politics, has spoken and trounced my words. I shall lead the day with a heavy heart, knowing I have been crushed. Mercs actually have no friends and just follow something called "honor." I'm Denzel Washington, and I play chess. |
culo duro
EveryoneVersusEveryone.com EveryoneVersusEveryone.com.
369
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Posted - 2013.12.01 19:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sleeper Cell Agent wrote: For instance, a corp is decked by P I R A T alliance, T3/faction BS pilots.
They contact wh0res in Space, Marmite and are told "sorry, we are allied with these guys, we can't help you".
It's quite simple, people need friends.
Sleeper Cell Agent wrote: Now forgive me if im wrong but the meaning of MERCENARY is they have no loyalty's to anyone but ISK.
I'm sure you got the answer you got because the amount of isk you'd have to pay for it to be worth to whoever it is that decced you to get those mercs in wouldn't be worth it for you.
Sleeper Cell Agent wrote: What is the point of being a mercenary alliance if you won't take contracts agaisnt viable targets that will actually fight?
I know plenty of merc alliances that want to fight, look for other entities.
Sleeper Cell Agent wrote: Because from where im standing, Marmite, P I R A T and Wh0res are cowards who only deck targets that can't fight back.
Okay, that makes no sense but okay. (Everyone can fight back, so that's a silly thing to say)
Sleeper Cell Agent wrote: How can they call themselves mercs when they wont fight actual mercs, which is stupid
It's kinda easy since half of high sec are mercs, i even saw a guy that'll mine for you.
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Soliscout
7
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Posted - 2013.12.01 19:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sleeper Cell Agent wrote:
For instance, a corp is decked T3/faction BS pilots.
AAAAW
show me on that plush Drake where the evil BS touched you |
KiloAlpha
SwEaTy ArMpIT RaIDeRs Super Duper Space Alliance
4
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Posted - 2013.12.01 20:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
contact me ingame and we will disscuss a contract |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2168
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 21:57:00 -
[15] - Quote
There are no Mercenaries, only Griefers (outside of maybe spacehonourable groups like Noir., but they are pretty terrible and nobody worth a damn actually takes them seriously).
Your average run of the mill group of high sec internet spaceship warlords masquerading about as 'mercenaries' are mainly just griefers that think there is some equivalency to ganking industrials, frigates and mission runners and actual fleet brawls; and to each their own, many pilots (even some decent ones) started exploring PvP in this very manner, which- while not necessarily the pinnacle of skill, anything that gets players comfortable with other players exploding is a good thing I guess.
It is sad however, that many of the groups currently cavorting about in this fashion have been doing the exact same things for years, equate whatever garbage tier nullsec group they flew with to the nullsec experience and generally have the fitting knowledge of whatever was posted on failheap (if they aren't completely ****) and battleclinic (if they are). These are also the same people that think killboard stats actually mean something, the top 20 on EVE-Kill actually means anything other than recent activity, and K:DR is a valid measurement of skill.
Every group in EVE will no doubt have friends, but setting the majority of the competition blue just makes for a dull experience (or at least it would from what I remember) especially for no other purpose than having a relatively uncontested trade hub undock to mercilessly kill shuttles and what not on (You can always ask for help without setting standing, sort by ticker is super helpful).
Surely there are a few groups out there that actually do the deed and run locates, leave a pipe, and take the fight to their would be enemy that they are being paid to oppress, and hopefully that would be enemy would embrace the fact that somebody ludicrously paid internet spaceship dollars to be war dec'd and will take up arms; but in reality- they will lose a handful of ships, maybe kill a person from the aggressing corp, and play skill queue online for a week.
In almost any situation, you'd be better off doing the fighting yourself and learning from your mistakes- but EVE is a terrible game full of terrible people and what appears to be mindnumbingly boring and stupid to one person, is another person's blissful weekend happily wasted. |
Anya Klibor
Error-404 Cup Of ConKrete.
543
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 22:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Xolve, you were in Orphanage longer than I was, but from what I remember they didn't have very many blue corporations, and I don't remember anyone who was in Merc Contracts being blue, save NOIR. Correct me if I'm wrong there, please. But I agree with your post for the most part. It seems that really fits the majority of the larger coalitions such as Marmite. Give Vegas whatever crap you want, but at least he'll fight people like Marmite and hand them their ass. |
Danalee
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
259
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Posted - 2013.12.01 22:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
Sleeper Cell Agent wrote: Please, sumone explain this to me, cause atm i feel nothing but contempt for these alliances.
So, you want real mercs to take on P I R A T? I hear good things about Pod Repo and Devils Warriors.
Might check there.
D.
|
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2170
|
Posted - 2013.12.01 23:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote:Xolve, you were in Orphanage longer than I was, but from what I remember they didn't have very many blue corporations, and I don't remember anyone who was in Merc Contracts being blue, save NOIR. Correct me if I'm wrong there, please. But I agree with your post for the most part. It seems that really fits the majority of the larger coalitions such as Marmite. Give Vegas whatever crap you want, but at least he'll fight people like Marmite and hand them their ass.
They didn't really have any blue corporations, hell my alt corp got dec'd by them on one rotation- but then again- they wern't playing the 'merc for profit' shadow game either and were much more approachable in terms of getting a button pushed with an implicit warning that we probably wouldn't hunt people down, and just shot things off an undock somewhere, a few did- those were the times.
EVE caters to the lazy player, and punishes those who login and try and create content for those insufferable faggots. |
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
646
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 00:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Because even High Sec needs a blue list. Because 00 alliances have no friends.... duh...
You either love us or we hate you. |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2170
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 00:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tora Bushido wrote:Xolve wrote:Because even High Sec needs a blue list. Because 00 alliances have no friends.... duh... @OP : Stop the crying..... But but but buttt....
We could talk about the comparative differences between the two anytime you wish Tora.
Diplomacy is a terrible thing, that should have never happened. |
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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
1617
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 01:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
I don't understand the confusion. Mercs are hired guns. Mercs may also have friends. If one Merc corp won't fight their friendly merc corp you likely aren't offering to pay enough. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1190
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 01:52:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sleeper Cell Agent wrote:Hi
It's a serious question
For instance, a corp is decked by P I R A T alliance, T3/faction BS pilots.
They contact wh0res in Space, Marmite and are told "sorry, we are allied with these guys, we can't help you"
Now forgive me if im wrong but the meaning of MERCENARY is they have no loyalty's to anyone but ISK.
What is the point of being a mercenary alliance if you won't take contracts agaisnt viable targets that will actually fight?
Because from where im standing, Marmite, P I R A T and Wh0res are cowards who only deck targets that can't fight back.
How can they call themselves mercs when they wont fight actual mercs, which is stupid
??
Please, sumone explain this to me, cause atm i feel nothing but contempt for these alliances.
Hah highsec problems, highsec mercs are hilariously impotent. You too could laugh at their impotence, the benevolent landlords in the north are happy to acquire new tenants. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2171
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 02:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
La Nariz wrote: the benevolent landlords in the north are happy to acquire new tenants.
The West too.
Nullsec alliances having blues is one thing, Highsec 'merc' outfits having blues reduces the chances of fighting another 'competent' enemy (I use competent here loosely, to describe the offset idea that someone might actually shoot them back- the amount of confusion this would cause most outfits would be a spectacle of hilarity and absurdity to behold).
edit: Come to think of it, based on that assertion- blues in Nullsec serve the exact same purpose, well for the CFC anyway. |
Xavier Higdon
Wolfbane Hauler Inc
195
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 03:27:00 -
[24] - Quote
Eh, getting a war dec from a merc corp is a minor annoyance at the worst. It might mean trying to dock up in time to get a PVP ship before they finish jumping between belts, but normally it just means no visiting trade hubs during the "war." In the week we've been at war with them, they've been in our area twice, for about 10 minutes each time. They've caught a Stratios in a gate camp and an industrial off the Amarr undock. The Stratios had to be taken down by a group of T3s I think, but the Iteron only took one ship. Their skill points are undeniable though. Wolfbane Hauler Inc Looking For Combat And Industrial Pilots |
Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
517
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 04:24:00 -
[25] - Quote
Anya Klibor wrote: No, that's not it at all. I remember Zeus Maximo starting a shitstorm on these forums because Marmite joined a war against them as allies of a defender, demanding that mercs "honor the contracts of other mercs". In essence, Zeus laid the foundation of this whole "blue donut" bullshit for high sec, where-by the larger mercenary alliances wouldn't help against each other because then, ships could be lost for both sides!
This is also know as Max effectiveness
Its pointless to try and trick and another merc group that uses the same bag of tricks. You all know what is needed to win and you all know what will be brought to the field. When efficiency is on the line neither group will take the fight considering the primary goal is to win without a doubt.
Therefore in high sec, merc alliance versus merc alliance = pointless
A question that I wish someone would ask me.
"Zeus, what is your group up to?"
My response would be: Farming kills from mercenary alliances that won't change their ways.
Our latest target has been Forsaken Asylum: Sanadoon Blastorita Krishtor Griznatch bman102 Nikita Romeo Elite Saiyajin jack1974 > can still call me zeus :) if you want Danalee > Jack is more humble :) |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1191
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 04:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Xolve wrote:La Nariz wrote: the benevolent landlords in the north are happy to acquire new tenants. The West too. Nullsec alliances having blues is one thing, Highsec 'merc' outfits having blues reduces the chances of fighting another 'competent' enemy (I use competent here loosely, to describe the offset idea that someone might actually shoot them back- the amount of confusion this would cause most outfits would be a spectacle of hilarity and absurdity to behold). edit: Come to think of it, based on that assertion- blues in Nullsec serve the exact same purpose, well for the CFC anyway.
:colbert: we are terrible at this game. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
Bella Rugente
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
44
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 05:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tah'ris Khlador wrote:Mercs have friends too and sometimes those relationships are more valuable than your tiny amount of isk.
This pretty much nails it, not much room for debate. |
gnshadowninja
Concentrated Evil The Marmite Collective
61
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 05:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
Xavier Higdon wrote:Eh, getting a war dec from a merc corp is a minor annoyance at the worst. It might mean trying to dock up in time to get a PVP ship before they finish jumping between belts, but normally it just means no visiting trade hubs during the "war." In the week we've been at war with them, they've been in our area twice, for about 10 minutes each time. They've caught a Stratios in a gate camp and an industrial off the Amarr undock. The Stratios had to be taken down by a group of T3s I think, but the Iteron only took one ship. Their skill points are undeniable though.
Will take your complaint under consideration and improve my presence to your lovely area :)
M33P |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2172
|
Posted - 2013.12.02 05:46:00 -
[29] - Quote
Zeus Maximo wrote: Its pointless to try and trick and another merc group that uses the same bag of tricks. You all know what is needed to win and you all know what will be brought to the field. When efficiency is on the line neither group will take the fight considering the primary goal is to win without a doubt.
This is pretty far from the truth actually- Mercs fighting Mercs was always a way to keep things interesting. While it's fun to have competition, it also brushes up individual pilot skill for people into that kind of thing and creates a friendly bit of banter about who's on top.
'Friends' can lose a few ships to each other and still be friends. Saying you care about efficiency to the point where a fight wouldn't occur is a backwards way of saying you put entirely too much stock into killboard stats.
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Zeus Maximo
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
518
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Posted - 2013.12.02 06:57:00 -
[30] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Zeus Maximo wrote: Its pointless to try and trick and another merc group that uses the same bag of tricks. You all know what is needed to win and you all know what will be brought to the field. When efficiency is on the line neither group will take the fight considering the primary goal is to win without a doubt.
This is pretty far from the truth actually- Mercs fighting Mercs was always a way to keep things interesting. While it's fun to have competition, it also brushes up individual pilot skill for people into that kind of thing and creates a friendly bit of banter about who's on top. 'Friends' can lose a few ships to each other and still be friends. Saying you care about efficiency to the point where a fight wouldn't occur is a backwards way of saying you put entirely too much stock into killboard stats.
I will try to be more specific because the current situation is kind of confusing.
There are large merc alliances in high sec that complete their contracts off sheer amount of kills. It doesn't matter how they get them, just as long as they get them.
Then there are specialized merc alliances that don't care about quantity but quality. They will do strategic hits on a high value target.
Lastly there are the groups that do the very thing you referenced; dec other people to improve skill.
Everyone in high sec fits into these stereotypes so in a way you are right. When two seasoned merc hunter groups dec each other that is when the pointless effort comes into play. It kinds of like trying to be faster than your image in a mirror. Group 1 loads up in battleships so group 2 switches to proteus's. Group 1 notices so they dock up and change to a neut heavy fleet. Group 2 gets the vibe so they switch to ranged ships to counter Group 1. Group 1 then switches to kite so Group 2 goes all web and sensor dampeners. Then we get back to square one and one timezone is ready for bed.
These counters can potentially happen in every merc war but eventually there is too much effort required for such little amount of results. Why would Marmite keep a perma war with Devils if it shuts down their Amarr sector of kills. People then get unhappy and start to cause negative waves. Then they both have to be on guard which takes away from their task of mass slaughters. Eventually this will lead to a loss in contracts for both sides...... jack1974 > can still call me zeus :) if you want Danalee > Jack is more humble :) |
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