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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
449
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Posted - 2014.01.09 14:11:00 -
[1861] - Quote
WHat's wrong with BLOPS ships? Just asking, I don't fly them.
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Mike Whiite
Stupid Stunts The Wolfpack Nexus
320
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Posted - 2014.01.09 14:13:00 -
[1862] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Morning!
I feel a lot less strongly about the cloaked velocity bonus, it seems kind of awkward to me but I'll bring it up with the other balance guys to be sure.
Thanks it's apreasiated |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
2741
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Posted - 2014.01.09 14:14:00 -
[1863] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:A small update for you guys - going to adjust the warp Nestor's warp speed to match Battlecruiser warp speed rather than Battleship. That is a warp speed multiplier of 2.5 rather than 2.0.
This suggestion has come up a few times and it matches well with the extremely low mass and should be something that everyone is happy to have. I think this is a step in the right direction. What about ditching the logistics aspect entirely and giving the Nestor a -50% reduction to CPU penalties when utilizing Hyperspacial rigs? This would give it a potential non-Ascendancy warp speed of 4.88 without also penalizing the tight fitting requirements. There's still that Rescue Shuttle; it seems like a waste to have this feature cosmetic in nature only... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
2111
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Posted - 2014.01.09 14:35:00 -
[1864] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Being as this is a drone ship, I feel I can ask this question in a on-topic style.
The state of heavy drones. There mostly garbage, everyone generally knows why. I have been thinking on how to fix them, and see one option that could be considered a quick fix but will help them become viable.
Increasing there optimal range to 10km, which with skills would bring it to 12.5km, on a Dominix would bring there range to about 17km, with a Dominix and 2 omnidirectional tracking links about 26km. It would allow heavy drone to begin dealing damage earlier. With how drone mechanics work they will continue to travel toward there target till they begin to orbit a 1km. So smart bombing will still be a viable defense against them. Need to be careful with the values (altough the core of the idea is nice). IT would require an extension of smartbomb range, otherwise large drones would be immune. I would in fact love if heavy drone had a "TINY JUMP DRIVE" so they can jump 50 km ranges instantly then cover the rest by normal movment. A mini MJD for heavy drones would be nice but it may make there projection too great, and make there close 20~30km range still terrible.
All drones orbit at 1km and not at their optimal, so while out past smartbomb range they still will be slow enough to be shot down, and will still orbit within smart bomb range. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8232
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Posted - 2014.01.09 14:47:00 -
[1865] - Quote
It warps faster now guys every problem with the ship is totally fixed and it's now worth using.
Not. My EVE Videos |
Archibald Thistlewaite III
360
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Posted - 2014.01.09 14:47:00 -
[1866] - Quote
Not sure if this has been suggested in the previous 90+ pages.
I'd quite like it to have the ability to use prop. mods whilst cloaked. So it would also have to be immune to the speed penalty to regular cloaks.
It still wouldn't be able to warp cloaked but once on grid it could move around freely. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1044
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Posted - 2014.01.09 14:49:00 -
[1867] - Quote
People are askign TOO much of a signle ship. With all these bonuses.. the ship should be renamed to MacGyver "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Savira Terrant
Valhollr
188
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Posted - 2014.01.09 14:50:00 -
[1868] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:It warps faster now guys every problem with the ship is totally fixed and it's now worth using.
Not.
This.
Kagura Nikon wrote:People are askign TOO much of a signle ship. With all these bonuses.. the ship should be renamed to MacGyver
Au contraire! We want useful bonuses/abilities to replace the redundant ones. . |
Steph Livingston
Neko's Blanket
0
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Posted - 2014.01.09 15:04:00 -
[1869] - Quote
Savira Terrant wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:People are askign TOO much of a signle ship. With all these bonuses.. the ship should be renamed to MacGyver Au contraire! We want useful bonuses/abilities to replace the redundant ones.
Just to put it in perspective, every other pirate fraction BS has one special ability bonus. It may not have the same damage of the other factions, but you could argue the RR amount / distance bonuses are worth about the same advantage, but a different role. The fact that the Nestor also receives a scan bonus, laser optimal bonus, mass bonus, warp bonus, and analyzer bonus, is just icing on the cake.
If they straight up dropped a few of the bonuses the ship would still be balanced, it would just have a more defined role. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1046
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Posted - 2014.01.09 15:16:00 -
[1870] - Quote
Steph Livingston wrote:Savira Terrant wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:People are askign TOO much of a signle ship. With all these bonuses.. the ship should be renamed to MacGyver Au contraire! We want useful bonuses/abilities to replace the redundant ones. Just to put it in perspective, every other pirate fraction BS has one special ability bonus. It may not have the same damage of the other factions, but you could argue the RR amount / distance bonuses are worth about the same advantage, but a different role. The fact that the Nestor also receives a scan bonus, laser optimal bonus, mass bonus, warp bonus, and analyzer bonus, is just icing on the cake. If they straight up dropped a few of the bonuses the ship would still be balanced, it would just have a more defined role.
That is exactly what I meant to say. It already is the most bonused ship ever seen.
The ship is strong. The problem lies elsewhere, on the fact that logistic ships are TOO strong. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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Owen Levanth
Federated Deep Space Explorations
67
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Posted - 2014.01.09 15:17:00 -
[1871] - Quote
Steph Livingston wrote:Savira Terrant wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:People are askign TOO much of a signle ship. With all these bonuses.. the ship should be renamed to MacGyver Au contraire! We want useful bonuses/abilities to replace the redundant ones. Just to put it in perspective, every other pirate fraction BS has one special ability bonus. It may not have the same damage of the other factions, but you could argue the RR amount / distance bonuses are worth about the same advantage, but a different role. The fact that the Nestor also receives a scan bonus, laser optimal bonus, mass bonus, warp bonus, and analyzer bonus, is just icing on the cake. If they straight up dropped a few of the bonuses the ship would still be balanced, it would just have a more defined role.
I think I have the solution to make the Nestor truly unique: Strip out the bonus RR amount and -distance, strip out most of its dronebay and take out the bonus to drones and give it a damage bonus to lasers instead.
Add the truly unique idea I had in this thread, and we're golden. Think about it: Random chance based jump drive, but without need of a cyno beacon. |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
449
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Posted - 2014.01.09 15:41:00 -
[1872] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:
The ship is strong. The problem lies elsewhere, on the fact that logistic ships are TOO strong.
I agree here. The oneiros and scimitar are at least killable without a specific counter fleet. guardians and basilisks need a look. Either a reduction of high slots or the removal of the cap use bonus.
In addition, as it stands it's possible to build a cap-stable solo guardian with 4 large remote reps, 1 large remote cap and a local tank. It totally obsoletes the oneiros which I imagine is supposed to be the skirmish support logi.
thus:
[Guardian, hero]
4x Large 'Solace' Remote Armor Repairer 'Regard' Remote Capacitor Transmitter Small Nosferatu II
10MN Afterburner II Large Capacitor Battery II
Internal Force Field Array I 2x Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Capacitor Power Relay II Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer (Nanite Repair Paste)
2x Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II
5x Light Armor Maintenance Bot II
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8234
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Posted - 2014.01.09 15:45:00 -
[1873] - Quote
"Basilisks need a look" hahahahaha My EVE Videos |
Savira Terrant
Valhollr
188
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Posted - 2014.01.09 15:45:00 -
[1874] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Steph Livingston wrote:Savira Terrant wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:People are askign TOO much of a signle ship. With all these bonuses.. the ship should be renamed to MacGyver Au contraire! We want useful bonuses/abilities to replace the redundant ones. Just to put it in perspective, every other pirate fraction BS has one special ability bonus. It may not have the same damage of the other factions, but you could argue the RR amount / distance bonuses are worth about the same advantage, but a different role. The fact that the Nestor also receives a scan bonus, laser optimal bonus, mass bonus, warp bonus, and analyzer bonus, is just icing on the cake. If they straight up dropped a few of the bonuses the ship would still be balanced, it would just have a more defined role. That is exactly what I meant to say. It already is the most bonused ship ever seen. The ship is strong. The problem lies elsewhere, on the fact that logistic ships are TOO strong.
And I meant to say that "we" want a battleship for exploration, balanced around a jump drive. If that means no analyzer-, scan-, laser range-, warp-, mass-, RR-, and drone bonus - so be it. . |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
449
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Posted - 2014.01.09 15:53:00 -
[1875] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:"Basilisks need a look" hahahahaha
Just because they aren't used very much doesn't mean they aren't OP :-)
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
|
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Tormented of Destiny The Kadeshi
169
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Posted - 2014.01.09 16:33:00 -
[1876] - Quote
Mournful Conciousness wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:"Basilisks need a look" hahahahaha Just because they aren't used very much doesn't mean they aren't OP :-)
they aren't used because there is no 0.0 sentri battleship doctrine which is shield fit and smaller roaming fleets like to use the more mobile scimitar. make the domi a shield tanked ship and you will have basilisks all over 0.0
i am in for all the speeding while cloaking stuff, when in turn the targeting delay after decloaking is at least doubled and sentri assist disabled. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
138
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Posted - 2014.01.09 16:53:00 -
[1877] - Quote
Thanks for the clarification, CCP Rise. Shame, this had the potential to be an interesting ship. Oh well. This post was crafted by a member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Silivar Karkun
We are not bad. Just unlucky Goonswarm Federation
127
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Posted - 2014.01.09 18:16:00 -
[1878] - Quote
Nagarythe Tinurandir wrote:Mournful Conciousness wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:"Basilisks need a look" hahahahaha Just because they aren't used very much doesn't mean they aren't OP :-) they aren't used because there is no 0.0 sentri battleship doctrine which is shield fit and smaller roaming fleets like to use the more mobile scimitar. make the domi a shield tanked ship and you will have basilisks all over 0.0 i am in for all the speeding while cloaking stuff, when in turn the targeting delay after decloaking is at least doubled and sentri assist disabled.
what about the Rattlesnake?.....well we need a shield tanking dronebat anyways.....at least a cheap one...
now on topic, how about making it the first subcap ship with a 7/7/7 layout?....or at least a 6/7/7, even 5/7/7, if its gonna be based on the gnosis at least give it a slot layout that allows for either shield or armor, but sacrifice highslots to compensate. i think a 5/7/7 would be enough. makes people decide if they want to use all the highslots in turrets, or if they want to sacrifice that extra DPS for repping cabalities |
Roy Alleyne
Dark Horizon Logistics and Intelligence
12
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Posted - 2014.01.09 19:23:00 -
[1879] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Morning!
A small update for you guys - going to adjust the warp Nestor's warp speed to match Battlecruiser warp speed rather than Battleship. That is a warp speed multiplier of 2.5 rather than 2.0.
This suggestion has come up a few times and it matches well with the extremely low mass and should be something that everyone is happy to have.
Appreciate your post XvXTeacherVxV, on the two topics you asked about: I think a jump drive would mean redesigning the entire ship. It's such a powerful capability and we decided earlier on that we would rather do something else than add more fast travel (whether through covert bridging or jump drive) and so we designed the ship with that in mind. I would expect that Black Ops can fill this need when they are rebalance since they are more explicitly meant for that kind of gameplay. Hopefully we can get to them soon. I feel a lot less strongly about the cloaked velocity bonus, it seems kind of awkward to me but I'll bring it up with the other balance guys to be sure.
Increased warp speed sounds very nice for keeping up with an exploration fleet. I'm sure I can speak for at least a few people and say that we appreciate that your willing to put cloaked velocity on the table and take a hard look at it, that is all we asked for. |
Divi Filus
New Xenocracy
7
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Posted - 2014.01.09 19:34:00 -
[1880] - Quote
Increased warp speed gives it a nice bit of flavor compared to other battleship hulls and is certainly welcome, but as I wrote before I'm not sure it's enough of a bonus in re travel and exploration by itself. To that end I appreciate your bringing the cloaked movement speed bonus to the rest of the balance team for discussion. |
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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
835
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 19:48:00 -
[1881] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: I think a jump drive would mean redesigning the entire ship.
TBH this might be a good idea with or without the jump drive.
Let's take a step back for a minute, because there is an obvious disconnect between many of the posters in this thread and the vision you present.
CCP Rise wrote: For instance, a small PVP group might love to take advantage of the probing bonus for getting quicker results on enemy snipers or safed up opponents.
Do you really think that people will spend 1-2 bil for a mediocre logi battleship? I mean ffs the ship costs as much as an archon! Meanwhile Guardians are a superlative logi alternative in a much lower price range. Maybe I'm dumb, but I just don't see it.
Could you perhaps elaborate on how you see this ship being used (preferably with specific examples)? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8236
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 20:43:00 -
[1882] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:CCP Rise wrote: I think a jump drive would mean redesigning the entire ship.
TBH this might be a good idea with or without the jump drive. Let's take a step back for a minute, because there is an obvious disconnect between many of the posters in this thread and the vision you present. Exactly. Scrap the current design. Forget whatever plan you had originally. It isn't going to work. The ship is all over the place and doesn't do anything well enough to justify its price. My EVE Videos |
Savira Terrant
Valhollr
188
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Posted - 2014.01.09 20:49:00 -
[1883] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:CCP Rise wrote: I think a jump drive would mean redesigning the entire ship.
TBH this might be a good idea with or without the jump drive. Let's take a step back for a minute, because there is an obvious disconnect between many of the posters in this thread and the vision you present. Exactly. Scrap the current design. Forget whatever plan you had originally. It isn't going to work. The ship is all over the place and doesn't do anything well enough to justify its price.
This. . |
Senarian Tyme
Serenity Rising LLC Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
67
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Posted - 2014.01.09 21:09:00 -
[1884] - Quote
I think the core issue comes down to what its intended for.
If its suposed to be for exploration, then it needs a 15 virus str to justify its use vs any other hacking ship, and it also really should have a covert ops capability. All the remote repping and gun bonuses could then be removed.
If it is intended for exploration SUPPORT (instead of direct exploration), then its scanner/hacking gun bonuses can be removed. It should however be given a SMA capable of holding at least a single frigate. Its repping bonuses should also be set for cycle speed, reduced cap use and range instead of power. Also the ability to jump directly to a covert cyno would make it viable for supporting fleets in 0.0 and LS, but have no impact on WH ops. The increased velocity while cloaked is also nice, but a elimination of targeting resolution penaly would likely be desireable as well esp if expected to be repping.
If its intended for direct combat, then remove the logi and hacking bonuses. Consider leaving the scanner bonus.
Another option to consider, dont make it a battleship, downgrade it to a battlecruiser. This would make it significantly more affordable and likely to be used, even in its current unenviable form. (EHP, PG, and CPU might need downgrading with this approach.) |
Mournful Conciousness
Embers Children TOHA Conglomerate
452
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Posted - 2014.01.09 21:19:00 -
[1885] - Quote
Senarian Tyme wrote:I think the core issue comes down to what its intended for. ....
Another person demonstrating clear logical thinking about ship design. Design to purpose, who'd have thought?
Embers Children is recruiting carefully selected pilots who like wormholes, green killboards and the sweet taste of tears. You can convo me in game or join the chat "TOHA Lounge".
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1054
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Posted - 2014.01.09 21:42:00 -
[1886] - Quote
Rise, please read this:
I know sometimes I am a bit.. agressive when I complain of your ideas. But this time I agree with you. But I hope you can take this as an opportunity to eveluate somethign. Why people think all these bonuses are weak?
Because T1 and t2 logis are both far too powerful!!!!
Large remote repiarers shoudl be stronger. But logis of t1 or t2 shoudl be way way weaker. Think how much weaker they would need to be so this ship would be considered a good ship. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
8240
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 21:54:00 -
[1887] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Rise, please read this:
I know sometimes I am a bit.. agressive when I complain of your ideas. But this time I agree with you. But I hope you can take this as an opportunity to eveluate somethign. Why people think all these bonuses are weak?
Because T1 and t2 logis are both far too powerful!!!!
Large remote repiarers shoudl be stronger. But logis of t1 or t2 shoudl be way way weaker. Think how much weaker they would need to be so this ship would be considered a good ship. No, they're weak because the ship is confused, disorganized, and has no distinctive purpose. It's a gimmick. It's eye candy. It's a toy. Nothing more. If you completely removed logi from the game it would still be a bad ship.
T1 and T2 logis are fine. A nerf would have no effect, we'd just spam more of them. It's not as if they're expensive. My EVE Videos |
Damien White
Sonnenlegion Shadow Cartel
66
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Posted - 2014.01.09 21:58:00 -
[1888] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Large remote repiarers shoudl be stronger. But logis of t1 or t2 shoudl be way way weaker. Think how much weaker they would need to be so this ship would be considered a good ship.
Wait... you are serious?
To make a bad ship become a reasonable option you want to nerf existing ships?
Fact is, a logistic BS will never work because part of the effectivity of Logistics is their small signature radius, which a BS will never get.
If you want repairs from capable ships with a nearly 100% hit signature (400m or more) you can already field Carriers. Those cost nearly the same, have more hitpoints, better tank and remote repair ability.
There is absolutely no need for a logistic BS, aside from maybe one or two special cases in PvE teritory.
Or in other words, to make this ship a viable option for a logistic pilot you need to nerf T1 Logistics, T2 Logistics, Carriers and maybe even the Dominix / Armageddon beyond hope. 14 Ships nerfed to **** because CCP has no idea what the field for this ship is. Because "exploration" is not. 97% of girls would die if Justin Bieber were about to jump off a cliff. Post this in your sig if you`re part of the 3% yelling,
"DO A BARREL ROLL!" |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
839
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Posted - 2014.01.09 22:03:00 -
[1889] - Quote
Why would an explorer use the nestor over a tengu, legion, or stratios? No reason. Why would any pvper use this ship over a Dominix, Guardian, or Archon? No reason. Why would a mission runner use this ship over a Marauder, Machariel, or Rattlesnake? No reason.
Is there ANYONE that will use the Nestor over cheaper and better alternatives? |
Savira Terrant
Valhollr
189
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Posted - 2014.01.09 22:07:00 -
[1890] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Rise, please read this:
I know sometimes I am a bit.. agressive when I complain of your ideas. But this time I agree with you. But I hope you can take this as an opportunity to eveluate somethign. Why people think all these bonuses are weak?
Because T1 and t2 logis are both far too powerful!!!!
Large remote repiarers shoudl be stronger. But logis of t1 or t2 shoudl be way way weaker. Think how much weaker they would need to be so this ship would be considered a good ship.
OMG?! How did we get from making this thing reasonable to nerf the **** out of everything else? lol . |
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