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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3765
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Posted - 2013.12.07 00:25:00 -
[31] - Quote
Djana Libra wrote:Xavier Higdon wrote:I hope they remove it from all non-Empire systems. It just doesn't make sense that you can see everybody in a system like that. Sure, it makes my travels in Null safer, but it also stops tactics such as ambushes, surprise attacks and counter attacks from being possible outside of blob warfare, and I'm a big fan of tactical planning. why always just non empire systems, remove it everywhere, would make wardecs more interesting as well
I think my idea over an ID beacon would make things interesting in highsec particularly. If you are a war target, you might want to shut off that beacon, but then be suspect to everybody and flagged for such. I have seen flagged ships get left alone on the premise that it could be a tarp. So a war target has to weigh the risks. Come up as red to the enemy, or yellow suspect to everybody? Who is worse? Who can do more damage? Is the WT scarey enough to be left alone flagged as suspect? Or perhaps looks too easy a target (a trap!)? Yes I think highsec without local would be interesting too. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
NEW ORDER DEATH DEALERS CODE.
45
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Posted - 2013.12.07 00:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I would love to find out what would replace local.
I'm kind of hoping for something like the Mode 2 systems we use on aircraft. Back when I was in the Luftwaff.... er Air Force (damned goons got me doing it now) fighter jets had Mode 4 IFF (Friend or Foe) that allowed fleets to identify their own. This system had a drawback though: it only said "friendly or not friendly" because the codes are a kind of black box crypto that changes daily.
Mode 2 is the basic ID beacon.
I'm hoping that something like beacons would be the replacement such that a scanner can pick up say 10 ships but only 8 have positive FF response and Mode 2 style beacon is optional - to transmit an ID or not so that if you are in a space that has NRDS you can weight the cost or benefits in the use of an ID beacon. In such cases, we have an ability for players to track friendlies, potential unfriendlies, and even enemies. There there would be some intel, IF players want to provide it for the corpmates or their own benefit, or if they want to be an unidentified entity in a space and anything could happen there. But yes if they are cloaked and have all beacons off, nobody will know they are there.
It would also be interesting to see if anybody entering empire space without Mode 2 on, broadcasting their ID to Concord, gets criminal flagged. Yeah I know this is a catch 22. Turn on the ID beacon and you are "red" in the system such that perhaps the Navies are after you, but leave it off and you are suspect flagged basically for "wearing a ski mask in the park on a sunny day" and EVERYBODY can shoot you.
There won't be any I-WIN buttons. There's never such a button.
I love this idea, but if implemented there needs to be some way for a solo player to scout gates without actually being there. I'm thinking a deploy-able structure that reports to you on gate activation as lang as you are in the same system would be good. Fleets could have their scouts shoot it down to still keep movement secret, but the solo player would be some prior warning.
I hate to disagree with you,-ábut there is nothing subjective about "boring" in connection to "mining". -á-á-á-á -- Solstice Project's Alt |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3765
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Posted - 2013.12.07 00:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I would love to find out what would replace local.
I'm kind of hoping for something like the Mode 2 systems we use on aircraft. Back when I was in the Luftwaff.... er Air Force (damned goons got me doing it now) fighter jets had Mode 4 IFF (Friend or Foe) that allowed fleets to identify their own. This system had a drawback though: it only said "friendly or not friendly" because the codes are a kind of black box crypto that changes daily.
Mode 2 is the basic ID beacon.
I'm hoping that something like beacons would be the replacement such that a scanner can pick up say 10 ships but only 8 have positive FF response and Mode 2 style beacon is optional - to transmit an ID or not so that if you are in a space that has NRDS you can weight the cost or benefits in the use of an ID beacon. In such cases, we have an ability for players to track friendlies, potential unfriendlies, and even enemies. There there would be some intel, IF players want to provide it for the corpmates or their own benefit, or if they want to be an unidentified entity in a space and anything could happen there. But yes if they are cloaked and have all beacons off, nobody will know they are there.
It would also be interesting to see if anybody entering empire space without Mode 2 on, broadcasting their ID to Concord, gets criminal flagged. Yeah I know this is a catch 22. Turn on the ID beacon and you are "red" in the system such that perhaps the Navies are after you, but leave it off and you are suspect flagged basically for "wearing a ski mask in the park on a sunny day" and EVERYBODY can shoot you.
There won't be any I-WIN buttons. There's never such a button. I love this idea, but if implemented there needs to be some way for a solo player to scout gates without actually being there. I'm thinking a deploy-able structure that reports to you on gate activation as lang as you are in the same system would be good. Fleets could have their scouts shoot it down to still keep movement secret, but the solo player would be some prior warning.
Many times people have asked for a "scout drone" or a "gate probe" and many times the answer is "no get a scout alt you noob/carebear ur not l33t go back to WoW".
Question is, would such a thing cost too much money from people not needing an alternate account anyway or would it save money from all those people not using thruway 14 day accounts in noob ships?
A gate probe or drone would be epic, but I'm afraid we'll not see one for a long time. Dotlan and the system maps will have to do. |
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld White Mountain Coalition
627
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 00:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
Simple solution just drop local outside of empire and replace with constellation chat so you know when people are near you but you'll need to hunt around to find them and have good intel to avoid them. Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction... |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6696
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Posted - 2013.12.07 01:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:Simple solution just drop local outside of empire and replace with constellation chat so you know when people are near you but you'll need to hunt around to find them and have good intel to avoid them. No. Too non-specific. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6696
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Posted - 2013.12.07 01:10:00 -
[36] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Of course we depend on local. You say that like it's a bad thing. It's unwise to actually depend on anything, especially in a game where they openly state they want to make changes to it. Except without the intel provides it would be impossible to do a lot of things in nullsec. For example there would be no way to rat without constant threat of covert hot-drops, which you won't notice until it's already too late to save yourself. These are indisputable facts. You are lying. Oh look, facts disputed, a 4S guy wrong, who would have ever guessed. I'm wrong cause Grrrrrath Telkin said so. I'd better go cry in a corner. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3767
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Posted - 2013.12.07 01:18:00 -
[37] - Quote
Touchy subject.
Local is a rather automatic system. Could something be threatened by any changes? What would it be?
It's not like there's not enough cyno ships.
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stoicfaux
3422
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Posted - 2013.12.07 01:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cypherous wrote:stoicfaux wrote:
Dear Most Everyone, Invest in a cheap laptop secondary computer that can run a minimal Eve client for your free trail scouting alts.
Or just a high end enough machine to handle sandboxing 2 clients so that they can't see each other to be able to check if more than 1 account is logged in on a single machine :P Last I checked, you can't run a client that's logged in with a trial account and a client that's logged in with a subscribed account.
Last I checked^2, using a VM to fake out the mixing trial/subbed clients on the same box check doesn't work due to EVE's graphics not being supported by the VMs.
So if you have a means of running trial accounts and subbed accounts at the same time on the same machine, please do share.
/too_cheap_to_fund_an_alt_account_for_scouting
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6696
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Posted - 2013.12.07 01:21:00 -
[39] - Quote
It's less about any threat to existing groups and more about what certain people/groups (e.g. Marlona Sky) want handed to them on a silver platter. They seem to forget there's already somewhere in EVE they can go to play without local, but we all know they won't go there. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3767
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 01:23:00 -
[40] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:It's less about any threat to existing groups and more about what certain people/groups (e.g. Marlona Sky) want handed to them on a silver platter. They seem to forget there's already somewhere in EVE they can go to play without local, but we all know they won't go there.
I have read enough "remove local" threads to conclude that local is double edged and if you remove it, nobody really benefits from the loss. Having it in place, the benefit is equal.
With local, you get instant intel. So does the other guy.
Without local, you don't get instant intel. Neither does the other guy.
So please define for us pubbies (I am a Pubbie Overlord according to Joepopo) what exactly will be on that "silver platter" that you are worried about.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6696
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Posted - 2013.12.07 01:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
Well clearly nothing, because once you remove local anybody that was ever doing PVE in nullsec will just go do it in highsec. It's not as if a large number haven't already done so. So you're basically asking for the space to be just as empty as it will look without local. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6696
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 01:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
And saying "durrr 35k coalition" isn't an answer, because people aren't going to sit around guarding ratters for free given the above, and paying them would thin out your income even more. There's no way to make the reward/risk ratio work in your favor here. Might as well go make isk in highsec.
Grath and Marlona both know I'm right about this, they just don't want to admit it. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3767
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 01:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Well clearly nothing, because once you remove local anybody that was ever doing PVE in nullsec will just go do it in highsec. It's not as if a large number haven't already done so. So you're basically asking for the space to be just as empty as it will look without local.
But I thought nullsec was all about defending your space and working together and all that, and that blissfully grinding away at PVe was for lowly evil horrible game-ruining carebears in highsec.
Tell me, who are you and what you doing posting on a goon account? |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3767
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 01:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:And saying "durrr 35k coalition" isn't an answer, because people aren't going to sit around guarding ratters for free given the above, and paying them would thin out your income even more. There's no way to make the reward/risk ratio work in your favor here. Might as well go make isk in highsec.
Grath and Marlona both know I'm right about this, they just don't want to admit it.
Well at this point it would appear that a 35K+ coalition is possible by selling the same ISK-snatching carebearism to the members that highsec has to offer. Sorry you feel you have to compete with peoples' weaknesses by appealing to their weaknesses.
(behold the folly of looking for a solution from the same people who are part of the problem - activists take note).
And please read the article. They are not going to just remove local. They will replace it with something else. Everybody can agree on that lest D-Scan spamming becomes the new WTZ bookmark.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6696
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 01:34:00 -
[45] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Well clearly nothing, because once you remove local anybody that was ever doing PVE in nullsec will just go do it in highsec. It's not as if a large number haven't already done so. So you're basically asking for the space to be just as empty as it will look without local. But I thought nullsec was all about defending your space and working together and all that Sure, when it makes sense.
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:and that blissfully grinding away at PVe was for lowly evil horrible game-ruining carebears in highsec. Well then you've clearly misunderstood. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6696
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 01:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
Herzog must think that ISK just falls out of the sky in nullsec and that we don't actually have to do anything for it. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
3767
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 02:17:00 -
[47] - Quote
It respawns after DT.
What of my inquiry? Will you answer my question? What are you so worried about? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6696
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 02:20:00 -
[48] - Quote
I'm not worried, because CCP is never going to remove local without replacing it with something that effectively does the same thing.
Also, you're mistaking top-down income for bottom-up income. I don't get that ISK directly - it goes into replacing the ships that I lose. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1199
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 02:21:00 -
[49] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:Untill they make something to replace the intelligence tool that is local, we will still have local. D-Scan doesn't even cut it, so don't try to argue that.
Would you all quit if dullsec has some risk besides a nodecrash? ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6696
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 02:28:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:Falin Whalen wrote:Untill they make something to replace the intelligence tool that is local, we will still have local. D-Scan doesn't even cut it, so don't try to argue that. Would you all quit if dullsec has some risk besides a nodecrash? Asking for local to be removed isn't asking for risk. It's asking for free kills. It's asking for CCP to take away the one thing that gives people the chance to avoid fights they can't win, provided they're paying attention. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
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Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
773
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 02:49:00 -
[51] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Sentamon wrote:Falin Whalen wrote:Untill they make something to replace the intelligence tool that is local, we will still have local. D-Scan doesn't even cut it, so don't try to argue that. Would you all quit if dullsec has some risk besides a nodecrash? Asking for local to be removed isn't asking for risk. It's asking for free kills. It's asking for CCP to take away the one thing that gives people the chance to avoid fights they can't win, provided they're paying attention.
I don't know. I'm pretty sure CCP goal is to cause as much ship losses as possible to fuel plex sales so we will most likely see this feature in the future. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. Captain Tardbar: The official grumpy cat of General Discussion. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6697
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 02:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Sentamon wrote:Falin Whalen wrote:Untill they make something to replace the intelligence tool that is local, we will still have local. D-Scan doesn't even cut it, so don't try to argue that. Would you all quit if dullsec has some risk besides a nodecrash? Asking for local to be removed isn't asking for risk. It's asking for free kills. It's asking for CCP to take away the one thing that gives people the chance to avoid fights they can't win, provided they're paying attention. I don't know. I'm pretty sure CCP goal is to cause as much ship losses as possible to fuel plex sales so we will most likely see this feature in the future. I'll repeat myself for your benefit: it would backfire, because people would simply stop ratting in nullsec. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
774
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 02:56:00 -
[53] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Sentamon wrote:Falin Whalen wrote:Untill they make something to replace the intelligence tool that is local, we will still have local. D-Scan doesn't even cut it, so don't try to argue that. Would you all quit if dullsec has some risk besides a nodecrash? Asking for local to be removed isn't asking for risk. It's asking for free kills. It's asking for CCP to take away the one thing that gives people the chance to avoid fights they can't win, provided they're paying attention. I don't know. I'm pretty sure CCP goal is to cause as much ship losses as possible to fuel plex sales so we will most likely see this feature in the future. I'll repeat myself for your benefit: it would backfire, because people would simply stop ratting in nullsec.
See. More people are forced to buy plex through this scheme to pay for their PVP instead of just ratting for it.
It is a foregone conclusion. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. Captain Tardbar: The official grumpy cat of General Discussion. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6697
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 02:57:00 -
[54] - Quote
No. Stop trolling. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
1887
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 03:07:00 -
[55] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Local will never be removed.
It may, at some point, be replaced by something with the same functionality in a different format. But it's not going to be what the "remove local" crybabies want. Are you capable of contributing to a thread without insulting other players who you disagree with? If not then please take your anger elsewhere. Thanks. he's at least capable of contributing, something you rarely manage
in fact the majority of your posts aren't worth the paper they're not written on |
Captain Tardbar
Sons of Sam
774
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 03:16:00 -
[56] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:No. Stop trolling.
Well if I was trolling the first rule is to ignore me not to acknowledge it. Otherwise it shows lack of restraint.
But as I am being serious...
I would point out that CCP makes changes to drive conflict. IE their goal is to make ships blow up.
Hard examples:
Ice mining changes made resources limited. Thereby causing competition between miners which leads to people getting mad over others who strip the belts clean. This leads to people paying gankers to blow up other people. Hell... I've given intel to people blowing up frieghters. If CCP wanted null and low to have more ice production they could have simply made ice mining in those areas quicker, but no... They made the entire resource limited and thereby driving conflict thereby causing more ships to be blown up.
Secondly, the POCO changes were meant to cause more highsec wars to blow up ships over POCO fights.
Then they made warp speed higher on bigger ships and made interceptors faster so that those bigger ships would be tackled and blown up more.
I could go on, but you see where this leads us.
If CCP can make your ship blow up they will get around to making it so.
So that might mean local will go away some day.
CCP purposely makes changes to cause ships to be blown up. "Entitlement" is a euphemism for "I hate the way you play and it makes me cry like a baby". If you fantasize about being immoral it means you enjoy being immoral deep down. Captain Tardbar: The official grumpy cat of General Discussion. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5288
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 03:22:00 -
[57] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:No. Stop trolling. haha There are no goons. The goons' 0.0 dream is over.
"Progodlegend said the goal of N3 is to destroy Goonswarm Federation, but in reality NCdot is in Fountain due to the fact it is virtually the last place there is action." ~NC., Fountain 2013 |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1958
|
Posted - 2013.12.07 05:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:It's less about any threat to existing groups and more about what certain people/groups want handed to them on a silver platter. Yes, you, you are the people that want something handed to them on a silver platter, and that is the ability to safely make money. Sorry, theres a place you can do that, its called empire.
If you say all the people that rat in Null would leave, I say sweet, that makes everything that spawns or drops in Null worth 20 times as much because there will be less people farming it, massively upping the reward compared to the risk
James Amril-Kesh wrote:They seem to forget there's already somewhere in EVE they can go to play without local, but we all know they won't go there.
Sure, just because we think you should have to work for your intel and not just look at a window we should have to go probe down every gate to roam around, or you're an idiot, idk which one is more accurate but I have a good guess.
Your crying in this thread is fairly epic, its been stated over and over by CCP themselves (whom you can't really call wrong, its their vision and their game) that Local gives too much intel.
So when they finally get around to fixing the broken Predator Prey mechanics of 0.0, you will get some intel back in whatever new form it comes in, but you certainly won't get it all back, because again, in CCPs own words, Local is too powerful of an Intel tool.
If thats unacceptable to you and the larger portion of your ilk, then I hope you enjoy ratting in empire for 1/20th of the profits that those who prepare properly for and brave the dangers of 0.0 for their earnings. I also anticipate greatly watching you try and defend your homes while you're sitting in Empire grinding L4's.
Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
6698
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Posted - 2013.12.07 06:14:00 -
[59] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Yes, you, you are the people that want something handed to them on a silver platter, and that is the ability to safely make money. Sorry, theres a place you can do that, its called empire. That's cute, but no. It's not as safe to make money in null as it is in empire now. There's no reason, while rewards stay as they are, that they should be made even less safe. But you're still asking for a vacant nullsec and easy targets.
Grath Telkin wrote:If you say all the people that rat in Null would leave, I say sweet, that makes everything that spawns or drops in Null worth 20 times as much because there will be less people farming it, massively upping the reward compared to the risk Yeah, rat bounties will totally go up, and faction/deadspace/officer modules so expensive nobody will ever buy them. Keep dreaming.
Grath Telkin wrote:Sure, just because we think you should have to work for your intel and not just look at a window we should have to go probe down every gate to roam around, or you're an idiot, idk which one is more accurate but I have a good guess. Damn Grath, you're so mad you can't even type coherent sentences anymore.
Grath Telkin wrote:Your crying in this thread is fairly epic, its been stated over and over by CCP themselves (whom you can't really call wrong, its their vision and their game) that Local gives too much intel. I can call CCP wrong all I want. I bet if I look in your posting history I'll find examples where you've said as much, so don't pretend otherwise. Latest video - Pandemic Legion titan and supers killed |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
12767
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Posted - 2013.12.07 06:35:00 -
[60] - Quote
This discussion will get a little more entertaining in a few weeks time.
1 Kings 12:11
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