Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Clytiexxx
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 10:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi, I only got back to the game after a long break and was thinking about getting into invention. I was wondering if anyone could tell me the approximate cost of running a pos in high sec and wether or not i can make it profitable with one maybe 2 characters.
Plus any advice on size and typ of pos which is best for this type of operation would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance |
Abdiel Kavash
Paladin Order Fidelas Constans
2234
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 10:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
You can see the fuel requirements of any POS in its showinfo. You can see prices of that fuel in Jita or eve-central. You can see the available slots of various labs in their showinfo, along with their fitting requirements. You can see available fitting for different POS types in their showinfo too.
If that little bit of math is too much for you, I foresee an "invention is broken, I can't make any ISK, boo T2 BPOs" thread from you soon. |
Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
96
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 10:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
From someone who can turn out 10k t2 modules a month (yeah with 80 manufacturing slots) the cost of running the POS is minor in comparison to the amount I spend on datacores each month.
Also - prepare for RSI, its nothing but a click fest and there are plenty of items that you can build and never sell for a decent profit.
And um.... yeah.... T2INVENTION BROKEN SINCE LAST PATCH I DID 10 JOBS AND ONLY GOT 2 SUCCESSES SCREW YOU CCP YOUR DICE ARE RIGGED!!!!1111! I've done some really stupid **** in this game. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1114
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 10:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Use the application in my signature and go to the POS Settings (Edit menu) and you can see the costs of each pos size and how many laboratories you can use. That should get you started.
Note, you don't need a POS to make isk with invention. Outside of getting started with ME/PE research and a bulk set of copies, you can do everything with NPC stations if you use your alts right. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour! |
Jdestars
Stars Research systems Incorporation
7
|
Posted - 2013.12.10 10:50:00 -
[5] - Quote
The cost of a line of research / production. Depend on several factors, among others if you are anxious to take into account the initial capital cost of the infrastructure and the maintenance of this one. In the maintenance cost the loss of module and renewal because of war factors to be "to take" into count It is also necessary to plan an amortization period As well as the occupation rate of lines
It is also necessary to know the parameters of every module to make a pricer worthy of the name
exemple with Med faction caldari: MyOldPos
(peace/war ) its cost when extract
|
Soldarius
Deadman W0nderland Test Alliance Please Ignore
404
|
Posted - 2013.12.11 21:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Jdestars wrote:mumbo-jumbo
Just don't even read that. Mein eiz...
Invention is very easy to get into. But to be reliably successful you need a lot of science skills. Fortunately, having those at 5 is definitely not required (unless it literally is) and won't get you much beyond 4. I've run about 50% on my invention jobs with all relevant skills at 3 and 4.
You can do invention at a small POS with a couple labs and some BPOs. If you do exploration as well, you can get enough datacores from hacking sites to supply your basic needs.
POS fuel is running about 15k isk per block. Smalls req 10, mediums 20, and larges 40 per hour. Anchoring in empire space also requires starbase charters. Those are runnning about 2-7000 per unit these days depending on which empire. You need 1 per hour.
Off the top of my head this means that a medium tower will run you about 219M isk per month just in fuel. So plan accordingly.
Personally, I don't engage in a new industrial venture without at least a billion isk to invest, especially if it requires a POS.
Free Ripley Weaver! |
Nolen Cadmar
Nexus Ore Technologies and Excavations
62
|
Posted - 2013.12.12 16:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Don't get into invention. It's impossible to make any money b/c all the old players have T2 BPO's. Instead go make a thread complaining about how T2 BPO's are unfair b/c you don't have the time/dedication to get one.
Or at least that's what I heard on the forums somewhere....... Nolen's Spreadsheet Guru Services: Need a spreadsheet created, maintained, updated or repaired? Learn more about my services at:-á https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3865379 |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
502
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 09:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
I would recommend you put up a small POS to start with. You can put a couple of advanced and ordinary labs on that which should be enough for 2 characters (depending on skills). Once you get the hang of it and are confident you can make a profit, switch out to a medium. I would only go large if you're going to pump out thousands of items a month with between 4 and 6 characters.
Remember the golden rule here: Research your market. Early on I made 1000 runs of a particular T2 module and when I ran the ingredients bill it turned out I'd break even. Subtract the cost of the POS and the opportunity cost of not inventing something that was actually profitable, and it was a bit of a fail. Still, I've got the BPCs in case the market for this item turns.
With invention I think the most important thing is your spreadsheet. |
Jdestars
Stars Research systems Incorporation
7
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 12:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Jdestars wrote:mumbo-jumbo You can do invention at a small POS with a couple labs and some BPOs. If you do exploration as well, you can get enough datacores from hacking sites to supply your basic needs.
and you can have small fleet to surround your Pos too as you wish .. (security or not have alway a cost )
You cannot establish production costs if you do not take into count all the "rigors of Space ' environment
when you spend 2b in Pos and you "gain" 100m witn bpc product ( after fuel cost paid), you have gain nothing ... just reduce de Debt of your r&d division to 1,9b |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
381
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 23:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jdestars wrote:Soldarius wrote:Jdestars wrote:mumbo-jumbo You can do invention at a small POS with a couple labs and some BPOs. If you do exploration as well, you can get enough datacores from hacking sites to supply your basic needs. and you can have small fleet to surround your Pos too as you wish .. (security or not have alway a cost ) You cannot establish production costs if you do not take into count all the "rigors of Space ' environment when you spend 2b in Pos and you "gain" 100m witn bpc product ( after fuel cost paid), you have gain nothing ... just reduce de Debt of your r&d division to 1,9b if you lost your tiny pos again and gain , you growing your debt ... and if you dont be able to evalute the Pos Amortization .. you can be know the real R&d Activtiy cost for evaluate the Bpc cost ...
This would make more sense if eve assets weren't, by and large, non-depreciating (and, occasionally, appreciating). You don't actually establish debt in buying a pos, at least not anywhere near the value of the stick itself - you just move a sum from cash to capital assets.
When you spend 2b on a pos and "gain" 100m net operating profit, you have actually gained 100m in net asset value, disregarding any substantial changes in the market value of the POS components (which aren't really all that given to big moves). Depending on your purchase price, they could easily increase in value.
Even a small POS is virtually immune to attack in high sec, provided that it is tended daily. |
|
Jeanette Plato
Amargosa Observatory
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 17:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Jdestars wrote:mumbo-jumbo ... You can do invention at a small POS ... Unless you want the POS for Researching ME, you're probably better off just finding a station to do inventions in, it will cost you around 300M a month just to keep up a small POS. If ME research IS what you're looking for, unless you're going to be doing A LOT of ME research, then you're probably better off finding an Alliance that has an POS you can use. |
Selaria Unbertable
POS Mortem Renegades Of Silence
12
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 17:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jeanette Plato wrote:Soldarius wrote:Jdestars wrote:mumbo-jumbo ... You can do invention at a small POS ... Unless you want the POS for Researching ME, you're probably better off just finding a station to do inventions in, it will cost you around 300M a month just to keep up a small POS. If ME research IS what you're looking for, unless you're going to be doing A LOT of ME research, then you're probably better off finding an Alliance that has an POS you can use.
300M for a small POS? Where do you buy your fuel blocks? Please tell me, I would like to sell them to you at that price *gg* Seriously, fuel blocks are about 15k ISK per block, a small POS needs 10 per hour. That's about 110M per 30 days for a small POS, double (220M) for a medium, and again double (about 440M) for a large POS, 10 resp. 20% less if you can affort a faction tower. If you manage to make the POS profitable, e.g. by adding some assembly arrays to use up spare CPU, you should at least break even. 100M profit per day is easily done by using 10 manufacturing slots and choosing the right items to build.
|
Jeanette Plato
Amargosa Observatory
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 17:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Selaria Unbertable wrote:Jeanette Plato wrote:Soldarius wrote:Jdestars wrote:mumbo-jumbo ... You can do invention at a small POS ... Unless you want the POS for Researching ME, you're probably better off just finding a station to do inventions in, it will cost you around 300M a month just to keep up a small POS. If ME research IS what you're looking for, unless you're going to be doing A LOT of ME research, then you're probably better off finding an Alliance that has an POS you can use. 300M for a small POS? Where do you buy your fuel blocks? Please tell me, I would like to sell them to you at that price *gg* Seriously, fuel blocks are about 15k ISK per block, a small POS needs 10 per hour. That's about 110M per 30 days for a small POS, double (220M) for a medium, and again double (about 440M) for a large POS, 10 resp. 20% less if you can affort a faction tower. If you manage to make the POS profitable, e.g. by adding some assembly arrays to use up spare CPU, you should at least break even. 100M profit per day is easily done by using 10 manufacturing slots and choosing the right items to build.
I meant to say Medium, but actually it's been a while since I've run my own POS. From what I remember it was more than just Fuel, there were a lot of other expenses involved. I remember that between Parts, Fuel and Empire Certificates, it was costing me around 300M a month to run. Maybe slightly less than that but not much. The point is, unless you need the station for ME research, it's usually not worth it, even at 110M per 30 days. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
385
|
Posted - 2013.12.16 20:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jeanette Plato wrote:
The point is, unless you need the station for ME research, it's usually not worth it, even at 110M per 30 days.
Uh, that's...a highly questionable "point". Even if you just put up 3 advanced labs for copying, and only used the 9 copy slots, you would only be paying about 12.2 million/mo/slot.
Good luck keeping yourself in adequate BPCs for less than that (for the sake of comparison, at current contract prices, one 20-print batch of retriever copies basically pays off one line in 2 days and 17 hours).
Unless you're just dipping your toe in the water to try it for funsies, doing invention without private copy slots is pissing into the wind.
Fill up the ME slots with some miscellaneous other BPOs for resale (which is some of the most passive income in the game) and you absolutely crush it. Fuel costs are pretty much a joke. |
Selaria Unbertable
POS Mortem Renegades Of Silence
12
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 00:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
I'd say it all depends on your setup and goal. For simple copying a POS is quite expensive, I agree. But if you add ME/PE research, invention and manufacturing slots, it pays for itself in less than a week, maybe even a day if you keep 2 or more chars occupied. I have been utilizing a POS since february, even upgraded to a large one recently, and the fuel costs are, in the long run and at a large scale, absolutely negligible. What's much more expensive is the initial costs of a POS. Even a small one with only 3 labs is about half a billion ISK. Not much for a seasoned pilot, but a lot of cash for a fresh character. |
Jeanette Plato
Amargosa Observatory
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 22:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Jeanette Plato wrote:
The point is, unless you need the station for ME research, it's usually not worth it, even at 110M per 30 days.
Uh, that's...a highly questionable "point". Even if you just put up 3 advanced labs for copying, and only used the 9 copy slots, you would only be paying about 12.2 million/mo/slot. Good luck keeping yourself in adequate BPCs for less than that (for the sake of comparison, at current contract prices, one 20-print batch of retriever copies basically pays off one line in 2 days and 17 hours). Unless you're just dipping your toe in the water to try it for funsies, doing invention without private copy slots is pissing into the wind. Fill up the ME slots with some miscellaneous other BPOs for resale (which is some of the most passive income in the game) and you absolutely crush it. Fuel costs are pretty much a joke.
|
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
387
|
Posted - 2013.12.17 22:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Jeanette Plato wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Jeanette Plato wrote:
The point is, unless you need the station for ME research, it's usually not worth it, even at 110M per 30 days.
Uh, that's...a highly questionable "point". Even if you just put up 3 advanced labs for copying, and only used the 9 copy slots, you would only be paying about 12.2 million/mo/slot.... Well, she didn't say anything about ME and PE. She was talking about invention, which also involves copying. In my .5 system both can be done for less than 3M a month.
Which is fine for baby's first invention job, but there's no way you're running any kind of practical enterprise that way. |
Jeanette Plato
Amargosa Observatory
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 03:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Jeanette Plato wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Jeanette Plato wrote:
The point is, unless you need the station for ME research, it's usually not worth it, even at 110M per 30 days.
Uh, that's...a highly questionable "point". Even if you just put up 3 advanced labs for copying, and only used the 9 copy slots, you would only be paying about 12.2 million/mo/slot.... Well, she didn't say anything about ME and PE. She was talking about invention, which also involves copying. In my .5 system both can be done for less than 3M a month. Which is fine for baby's first invention job, but there's no way you're running any kind of practical enterprise that way.
LOL!! I guess you're the Arbiter of "the Proper Way" of playing? Some people CHOOSE to specialize, if she doesn't want to bother with T1 stuff and wants to put ALL her focus on T2, that's HER decision. Just because you don't approve, it doesn't make it wrong.
I have a toon that ONLY does copying, another that ONLY does Production, This particular one ONLY does Invention. Why? Because each one has the skills MAXIMIZED to do a particular job, and each toon can only run so many jobs simultaneously. Some people don't have a bunch of different toons to do different jobs, so choose to go into ONE particular job and there's nothing wrong with that. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
388
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 03:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Jeanette Plato wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Jeanette Plato wrote:SurrenderMonkey wrote:Jeanette Plato wrote:
The point is, unless you need the station for ME research, it's usually not worth it, even at 110M per 30 days.
Uh, that's...a highly questionable "point". Even if you just put up 3 advanced labs for copying, and only used the 9 copy slots, you would only be paying about 12.2 million/mo/slot.... Well, she didn't say anything about ME and PE. She was talking about invention, which also involves copying. In my .5 system both can be done for less than 3M a month. Which is fine for baby's first invention job, but there's no way you're running any kind of practical enterprise that way. LOL!! I guess you're the Arbiter of "the Proper Way" of playing? Some people CHOOSE to specialize, if she doesn't want to bother with T1 stuff and wants to put ALL her focus on T2, that's HER decision. Just because you don't approve, it doesn't make it wrong. I have a toon that ONLY does copying, another that ONLY does Production, This particular one ONLY does Invention. Why? Because each one has the skills MAXIMIZED to do a particular job, and each toon can only run so many jobs simultaneously. Some people don't have a bunch of different toons to do different jobs, so choose to go into ONE particular job and there's nothing wrong with that.
Oh boy are you going to be upset when you discover math. |
Jeanette Plato
Amargosa Observatory
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 12:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:....
You're totally welcome to do slow-motion invention by way of empire stations, but you shouldn't go around advising people that a POS "isn't worth it" because that's demonstrably ****** advice.
OK, we'll just agree to disagree here. Maybe it's just me, but I have more copies than I need. You're probably right though, If I were to start selling my copies I'd probably make a pretty decent income on that.
Hmmm.. What's a good way to figure out the pricing on Copies,? I literally have thousands of them. |
|
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
751
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 13:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Check contracts, see what they're selling for. |
Jeanette Plato
Amargosa Observatory
0
|
Posted - 2013.12.18 15:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
Elena Thiesant wrote:Check contracts, see what they're selling for. I have a lot that I don't see existing contracts, I was just wondering if there's a formula anyone uses |
Victoria Sin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
517
|
Posted - 2013.12.23 22:09:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jdestars wrote:You cannot establish production costs if you do not take into count all the "rigors of Space ' environment
This is kind-of nonsense and only of theoretical interest. I've had a High Sec POS for 4 years and never had anyone show any interest in it whatsoever. And if they do, I'll just take it down and go do something else for a while.
|
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2264
|
Posted - 2013.12.24 08:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Jdestars wrote:You cannot establish production costs if you do not take into count all the "rigors of Space ' environment This is kind-of nonsense and only of theoretical interest. I've had a High Sec POS for 4 years and never had anyone show any interest in it whatsoever. And if they do, I'll just take it down and go do something else for a while.
Actually, it can be worth turning it into a dickstar, rather than hauling it down. Make it a pain in the ass to destroy.
There are some people out there who specialize in stealing POS when people try and take it down to run away with it. (You unanchor. They have someone watching, cloaked, who can see the timer. Just before the timer is up, they warp in a few ships, like 100mn stabbers, bump you off, and have an indy grab the unanchored tower.) Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Joan Greywind
No Swag Initiative
227
|
Posted - 2013.12.25 08:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:Jdestars wrote:mumbo-jumbo Just don't even read that. Mein eiz... You can do invention at a small POS with a couple labs and some BPOs. If you do exploration as well, you can get enough datacores from hacking sites to supply your basic needs.
Because we all know if you mine the minerals yourself you can sell them below market price, because those minerals are "free".
I can't believe people are still making this mistake.
Jdestars' post is right and has more value that your ****** post, because it is not repetitive generic ideas and actually has a couple of insightful tips, like taking the opportunity cost of a possible war. His weak English writing skills (I assume a second language) does not mean the post is "mumbo jumbo". Well anyways I can't blame you for thinking what he wrote is "mumbo jumbo", I mean for someone that can't understand basic opportunity cost principles, I can't say I am surprised.
And yes I am calling you stupid.
On a lighter note, goddam jdestars, that is some complex spreadsheet for invention and manufacturing. I only saw a small part of it, but that is some advanced ****. |
Jdestars
Stars Research systems Incorporation
24
|
Posted - 2014.01.09 13:29:00 -
[26] - Quote
Victoria Sin wrote:Jdestars wrote:You cannot establish production costs if you do not take into count all the "rigors of Space ' environment This is kind-of nonsense and only of theoretical interest. I've had a High Sec POS for 4 years and never had anyone show any interest in it whatsoever. And if they do, I'll just take it down and go do something else for a while.
I suppose you never forget to pay fuel block or have suprise patch whiche change fuel mecanical ..or have any War declared by opportunist cockroaches ...when the field POs down ... |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |