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Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
147
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Posted - 2013.12.13 02:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Could someone be so kind as to explain to me the research UI?
The guides that I have read regarding research bops talk about "blue print ME" and "manufacturing PE," but in the ui it says Material research and time efficiency research and when you click on those an option to increase something called "M.L.+" Is the ME and PE the same thing as the ML+? If not what is the ML+ thing and how does the ME and PE things relate to researching BOPs.
Thanks in advance for any help clarifying this for me. I don't play, I just fourm warrior. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
326
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Posted - 2013.12.13 03:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
its the same thing. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1306
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Posted - 2013.12.13 03:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
ML+ is the amount you increase the ME by with the research job.
EG. You have an Exequeror BPO with ME 11 and PE 11, and you put it in for a job at ML+ 10. When it completes in a month or so, the BPO is now ME21/PE11. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
2344
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Posted - 2013.12.13 03:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
"ML" is Material Level. the "+" in the UI is to add levels.
i.e. Entering 10 means research an additional 10 levels, not research to level 10.
"ME" = Material Efficiency, and is often used by players to mean "ML".
EDIT: argh, Lady Naween & Sabriz Adoudel beat me to it. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
2611
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Posted - 2013.12.13 07:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Could someone be so kind as to explain to me the research UI?
The guides that I have read regarding research bops talk about "blue print ME" and "manufacturing PE," but in the ui it says Material research and time efficiency research and when you click on those an option to increase something called "M.L.+" Is the ME and PE the same thing as the ML+? If not what is the ML+ thing and how does the ME and PE things relate to researching BOPs.
Thanks in advance for any help clarifying this for me.
Material research = ME Time efficiency research = PE Want to have some chat in game? Need help to get into the game as a new player? Just join my channel: Crazy Dutch Guy |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2145
|
Posted - 2013.12.13 09:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
PE is bad term, mostly because of the overlap with the skill.
I /think/ everything blueprint related is actually PL in game, but people are already in the habit of calling it PE. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
147
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 13:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Thanks everyone for the responses and the clarifications. I do have some follow up questions - I see on the bpo where the result of your material research goes - material level, but where is the result of your time efficiency research shown? I see manufacturing time and manufacturing time (you), but I assume this is skill related not something connected to the bop research itself. Am I correct?
Also in the system where I have been contemplating doing research - a low sec system nearby, all of the material slots are full (not as bad as highsec but still usually about 15-20days out) but the time efficiency slots are almost always empty - is there a reason why folk seem to ignore the time efficiency research and focus on the material research?
Finally, in the fuzzywork website there is sliding bars for blueprint me and manufacturing pe (based on the comments above is this the time efficiency factor?)- what is the difference between the two? Also am I correct in my belief that if you grab the blueprint me slider and drag it to the right - where the waste eliminated column turns all green is the point where it no longer makes sense to do material research beyond?
Thanks again everyone in advance any help. I don't play, I just fourm warrior. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
745
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Posted - 2013.12.14 14:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Thanks everyone for the responses and the clarifications. I do have some follow up questions - I see on the bpo where the result of your material research goes - material level, but where is the result of your time efficiency research shown?
3 lines below where Material Level is listed is Productivity level, that's the result of your time efficiency research.
Quote:Is there a reason why folk seem to ignore the time efficiency research and focus on the material research?
They don't. Time efficiency is faster in many cases, also blueprints tend to get less of it.
Quote:Finally, in the fuzzywork website there is sliding bars for blueprint me and manufacturing pe (based on the comments above is this the time efficiency factor?)
No. Manufacturer PE is the Productivity Efficiency skill of the manufacturer (slider is between 0 and 5)
Quote:Also am I correct in my belief that if you grab the blueprint me slider and drag it to the right - where the waste eliminated column turns all green is the point where it no longer makes sense to do material research beyond?
It usually stops making sense well before that point.
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2147
|
Posted - 2013.12.14 21:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
On my site you'll find sliders for: ME Manufacturer PE - Production Efficiency skill level.
Further down you'll find sliders for Blueprint PE Manufacturer Industry - The Industry skill level, as this affects the time to make something. Metallurgy - the researchers skill level, As this affects ME research time. Research - The researchers skill level (in the skill research) as this affects PE research time.
If you're looking at a T2 thing, there are some more sliders hidden away behind the 'open calculator button', for your racial encryption skill level, and the two data core skills for that thing.
You'll find that people generally don't go much beyond PE 7 or so on blueprints. This is because by the tie you hit 7, the waste time you save is minimal. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
1321
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Posted - 2013.12.16 01:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:Also in the system where I have been contemplating doing research - a low sec system nearby, all of the material slots are full (not as bad as highsec but still usually about 15-20days out) but the time efficiency slots are almost always empty - is there a reason why folk seem to ignore the time efficiency research and focus on the material research?
This should explain it.
Consider an item with 'base' material cost 100m (assuming Production Efficiency 5), market sell price of 106m after taxes, and a 'perfect' build time of 2 hours.
Another assumption: The numbers are large enough that rounding of individual component wastage is not an issue (so let's pretend it's at least 2000 of each material used to make the item). ME research gets complicated when you require, say, 662 units of an expensive component such as Photon Microprocessor.
ME 10 PE 0:
- Build cost 100.91m - Build time 2.2 hours - Unit profit 5.09m - Profit per hour per line: 2314k
ME 9 PE 1:
- Build cost 101m - Build time 2.1 hours - Unit profit 5m - Profit per hour per line: 2381k
ME 7 PE 3:
- Build cost 101.25m - Build time 2.05 hours - Unit profit 4.75m - Profit per hour per line: 2262k
ME 1 PE 9:
- Build cost 105m - Build time 2.02 hours - Unit profit 1m - Profit per hour per line: 495k
ME 0 PE 10:
- Build cost 110m - Build time (just under) 2.02 hours - Unit loss 4m - Profit per hour per line: Negative 1980k (ouch)
I think that should explain why demand for ME research slots is so much higher than demand for PE slots. It is usually over the top to research any BPO beyond about PE 19 and in many cases PE 2-4 is sufficient, but many BPOs are worth researching to ME > 50.
Edit: One more clarification. If you do want to research PE, you can do this in highsec - I have never seen a queue for PE research at any highsec station. ME, as you've discovered, is best done in lowsec areas that you understand the dangers of and/or highsec islands. I do much of mine in Rorsins, Thelan, Crilierie, Odotte, Steggette and Ravarin, and have stopped using Basgerin as I feel the system is too dangerous to fly billion ISK BPOs into. I use Interceptors to do the lowsec BPO hauling and never enter a system without checking first for evidence of smartbomb or instalock gatecamps. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. An enemy is just a friend that you stab in the front. |
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