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Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
5522
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Posted - 2013.12.17 15:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Additional Highlander document leaks occurred today. The important passage is, "It would appear after initial investigation that under legislation passed with the CONCORD Emergency Militia War Powers Act many of these breaches of the Caldari border may be in violation of the Yulai Convention."
I remain largely unsurprised by the leaks so far. Espionage! Gasp. Who'd have thought two powers at war would spy on one another? Or that the Federation would attempt to establish assessments of the military capabilities of the State?
Admittedly, proper assessment could be prelude to a strike-- but it could just as easily be a measure to ensure that the Federation isn't caught flat-footed as it was during the seizure of Caldari Prime. As belligerent as the Roden administration is, I doubt they could expand the war without facing an immediate vote of no-confidence, as I doubt your average Gallente citizen wants any disruption to his comfortable life.
Still, it will be interesting to see what comes of CONCORD intervention. Perhaps their intervention here will have more teeth and more sense than their disastrous attempt to intervene in null security space. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs |
Pontianak Sythaeryn
Bottle Distribution Ops Center Heimatar Alliance Treaty Organization
82
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Posted - 2013.12.17 16:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Odo Hakaalen, Corporate Relations Director for the Chief Executive Panel said... GÇ£continued increase in belligerent behavior on the part of the Federal AdministrationGÇ¥
Really? Ugh, I hate politics sometimes. All a bunch of liars. Can we use this sentence and quote it in verbatim but just switch Federation and State when it comes out that the Caldari state has been doing the same thing, during the same timeline? I mean, we all know both sides are doing this sort of thing considering tensions and relations between us and nobodies hands are clean here. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient Electus Matari
1224
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Posted - 2013.12.17 16:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Nothing to see here folks. As others have said, just more normal cloak and dagger stuff between competing national interests. When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
371
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Posted - 2013.12.17 16:23:00 -
[4] - Quote
Breaches of the Yulai Convention, eh?
Well then, we all know what happens when there's a war, that breaks one or more articles of the Convention.
Concord invalidates it.
So the Federation have just lost all of Placid to the State. Including Intaki.
Since the Caldari hold all that space right now, yes ? |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
3634
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Posted - 2013.12.17 16:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Welp. Popcorn anyone? Serious note; How is this news? Everyone spies on everyone. Come on....
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Pontianak Sythaeryn
Bottle Distribution Ops Center Heimatar Alliance Treaty Organization
82
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Posted - 2013.12.17 17:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:Breaches of the Yulai Convention, eh?
Well then, we all know what happens when there's a war, that breaks one or more articles of the Convention.
Concord invalidates it.
So the Federation have just lost all of Placid to the State. Including Intaki.
Since the Caldari hold all that space right now, yes ?
No
Once again, politics. If the Caldari even tried to pull this, likely we would release some of the intel we have that shows you do the same spying we do. Then it would come out you tried to take a system while knowing that you all also knowingly broke the convention to. How do you think that would look? You're State trying to use this to take Placid would just be foolish. |
Makoto Priano
Priano Trans-Stellar State Services Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
5522
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Posted - 2013.12.17 17:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mr. Sythaeryn, let me fix your statement: "You're the State trying to use this to secure Placid, the region you've already taken."
There. Fixed that for you. Priano Trans-Stellar: elegant solutions for the State's needs |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
2435
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Posted - 2013.12.17 17:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
As much as I look forward to the fallout settling on guilty parties in the Federation's ruling bodies once the war is over and cannot be used to excuse their habitual breaches of interstellar law, I don't see anything to really get upset about in here.
These are things that warring States do to each other. The warcrimes? The murders? The terrorism and the death squads? THOSE I want to see punished. |
Pontianak Sythaeryn
Bottle Distribution Ops Center Heimatar Alliance Treaty Organization
82
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Posted - 2013.12.17 17:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Makoto Priano wrote:Mr. Sythaeryn, let me fix your statement: "You're the State trying to use this to secure Placid, the region you've already taken."
There. Fixed that for you.
Mr. Priano, (one must return the favor) Let me fix your statement: "We the State are "trying" to take Placid by securing if we decide to invade it." Possession is nine-tenths of the law.
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Constantin Baracca
320
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Posted - 2013.12.17 17:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
I've always thought interstellar intelligence agencies see CONCORD, CEWPA, and interstellar law as polite suggestions rather than actual rules. Surely, if a spy only wanted to gain the information they could legally obtain, they would simply wait for the empires to politely hand them press releases.
They can't really complain when other nations and independent press organizations do precisely the same thing.
If there's one thing about foreign space I absolutely love, it's the free, independent press. "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"
-Matthew 16:26 |
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Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour
371
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Posted - 2013.12.17 17:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Pontianak Sythaeryn wrote:Valerie Valate wrote:Breaches of the Yulai Convention, eh?
Well then, we all know what happens when there's a war, that breaks one or more articles of the Convention.
Concord invalidates it.
So the Federation have just lost all of Placid to the State. Including Intaki.
Since the Caldari hold all that space right now, yes ? No Once again, politics. If the Caldari even tried to pull this, likely we would release some of the intel we have that shows you do the same spying we do. Then it would come out you tried to take a system while knowing that you all also knowingly broke the convention to. How do you think that would look? You're State trying to use this to take Placid would just be foolish.
Judging by this statement, I seem to have become a State citizen. Good heavens. How awkward.
I hope one of my Caldari friends can help clear this confusion up. |
Seneun
Titans Test Team
0
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Posted - 2013.12.17 17:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hm, and who stands to benefit from the escalation in political tension? Is there an entity whose legitimacy is incorporated in the regulation of such tension? |
Pontianak Sythaeryn
Bottle Distribution Ops Center Heimatar Alliance Treaty Organization
82
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Posted - 2013.12.17 18:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote:Judging by this statement, I seem to have become a State citizen. Good heavens. How awkward.
I hope one of my Caldari friends can help clear this confusion up.
Hum, you weren't? Apologies. Nobody is perfect, especially me. :) |
Pontianak Sythaeryn
Bottle Distribution Ops Center Heimatar Alliance Treaty Organization
82
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Posted - 2013.12.17 18:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
Seneun wrote:Hm, and who stands to benefit from the escalation in political tension? Is there an entity whose legitimacy is incorporated in the regulation of such tension?
CONCORD I would imagine. After all, then they get to flex their muscle and meddle in the affairs of what should be private matters between nations. |
Katrina Oniseki
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
2507
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Posted - 2013.12.17 18:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Valerie Valate wrote: Judging by this statement, I seem to have become a State citizen. Good heavens. How awkward.
I hope one of my Caldari friends can help clear this confusion up.
Well, you know... if you can put the whole blood thing behind you... Ch+½j+ì Katrina Oniseki ~ (RDC) Chief Operations Officer ~ [I-RED] Director of Public Relations |
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate
43
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Posted - 2013.12.17 18:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
The Gallente got caught. Simple as that. Now they need to face the consequences of their actions. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
2435
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Posted - 2013.12.17 18:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pontianak Sythaeryn wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Mr. Sythaeryn, let me fix your statement: "You're the State trying to use this to secure Placid, the region you've already taken."
There. Fixed that for you. Ms. Priano While it may be occupied, doesn't mean they identify with you. At all.
It's a brave person indeed who thinks they can speak on behalf of the population of an entire region of space. |
Pontianak Sythaeryn
Bottle Distribution Ops Center Heimatar Alliance Treaty Organization
83
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Posted - 2013.12.17 18:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Pontianak Sythaeryn wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Mr. Sythaeryn, let me fix your statement: "You're the State trying to use this to secure Placid, the region you've already taken."
There. Fixed that for you. Ms. Priano While it may be occupied, doesn't mean they identify with you. At all. It's a brave person indeed who thinks they can speak on behalf of the population of an entire region of space.
Surely you are not implying that I am doing so. If anything, I'm just pointing out the Intaki as a whole are going to be very divided on the issue. I'm sure some would identify with the Caldari, I'm sure some would be all gung-ho with the Federation. I'm sure others would want to form their own society.
Just because you may lay claim to them on some electronic signature, doesn't mean you actually own them as a people Mr Tuulinen. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
2435
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Posted - 2013.12.17 19:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Of course not! Anyone who knows my public record knows I'm a staunch supporter of freedom for the Intaki from the CEWPMA. |
Anslo
The Scope Gallente Federation
3634
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Posted - 2013.12.17 19:06:00 -
[20] - Quote
A big chunk of Intaki don't even wanna be part of the Fed. Look at the Syndicate and how they expanded against the Senate's wish.
Sound familiar, don't it madame?
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Demion Samenel
Caldari Independent Navy Reserve The Fourth District
29
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Posted - 2013.12.17 19:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
This does not come as a suprise. As war between two enteties escalates, so does its methodes getting an advantage. Spying to get intel on its neighbours, not surpised. Commander [Caldari Independent Navy Reserve] Alliance Head Diplomat [Fourth District] Department of Foreign Affairs
4TH District blog: http://thefourthdistrict.blogspot.se/ |
Lyn Farel
Kitzless
647
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Posted - 2013.12.17 20:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:Pontianak Sythaeryn wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:Mr. Sythaeryn, let me fix your statement: "You're the State trying to use this to secure Placid, the region you've already taken."
There. Fixed that for you. Ms. Priano While it may be occupied, doesn't mean they identify with you. At all. It's a brave person indeed who thinks they can speak on behalf of the population of an entire region of space.
If I may, you are putting words in her mouth... She just said that it does not necessarily mean that, not that they do not identify with State. |
Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence Cadre XV-01A Pyre Falcon Defence Combine
2435
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Posted - 2013.12.17 21:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Oh, I quite understand that. But nobody had claimed to the contrary, so since she raised the issue I felt the need to counterveil. |
Shanty Anzomi
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2013.12.17 21:10:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jennifer Maxwell wrote:The Gallente got caught. Simple as that. Now they need to face the consequences of their actions. agreed |
Claudia Osyn
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.12.17 21:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
Shanty Anzomi wrote:Jennifer Maxwell wrote:The Gallente got caught. Simple as that. Now they need to face the consequences of their actions. agreed Drat, I hate consequences. It won't take long will it? I have a hair appointment this evening. |
James Syagrius
Syndicated Ice
621
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Posted - 2013.12.17 23:40:00 -
[26] - Quote
I think that considering the nature of our opponent these actions were not only prudent but wise. I commend those responsible. GÇ£Here also are the heralds of his praise."
-á
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Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
252
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Posted - 2013.12.18 01:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
So called "interstellar law" didn't protect the borders of the Federation from Heth's invasion, why should the Caldari State have benefited from a legal framework they so brutally disregarded?
It seems fashionable now to condemn the Federation for the hard decisions and harsh actions taken during this war. To insist that our leaders are the ones driving further conflict. In fact, it was Tibus Heth who started this war. His megalomania was an ongoing threat to the safety of every world in the Federated Union. Forced to defend ourselves against a State guided by his aggression the Federation planned and orchestrated a military and intelligence operation with the goal of securing ourselves from that threat. We were successful. In the aftermath, Heth's clear lust for destruction catalyzed opposition to his rule of the State and he was deposed.
As for consequences? Caldari Prime may not be a planet of perfect harmony, but the security, governance and quality of life enjoyed by its citizens of all ethnicities has vastly improved. With the ouster of Tibus Heth the Caldari State once again has stable and responsible government in line with the traditional values of its Corporations and Citizens.
Y'know what? I think I'm pretty good with that.
What does concern me is that these ongoing leaks have increased the tension between our two governments. We should be doing more to take advantage of this historic opportunity to move our nations towards a lasting peace. It seems clear that some individual or parties are working to undermine any possibility of a peace process through these leaks. We in the Capsuleer community should focus our efforts on revealing those behind that agenda and opposing them, regardless of nationality. |
Saya Ishikari
Akagi Initiative
65
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Posted - 2013.12.18 01:43:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'd be just fine with things winding down, personally... But I have to ask, how is this news? Anyone with two functioning neurons knows that espionage is rampant. |
Claudia Osyn
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.12.18 03:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Saya Ishikari wrote:I'd be just fine with things winding down, personally... But I have to ask, how is this news? Anyone with two functioning neurons knows that espionage is rampant. Maby if we start ignoring it it will go away. Then we can all be friends. |
Constantin Baracca
320
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Posted - 2013.12.18 03:52:00 -
[30] - Quote
Saya Ishikari wrote:I'd be just fine with things winding down, personally... But I have to ask, how is this news? Anyone with two functioning neurons knows that espionage is rampant.
Conflict has inertia. While this is the sort of thing you would assume is going on everywhere, it's provided a neat and convenient place for the Caldari and Gallente to reinforce their negative opinions of each other. I assume there's a thread about slavery and/or senseless violence going on somewhere that provides that for the Amarrians and Matari. In the end, your average capsuleer is the same as your average baseliner; they follow the path of least resistance.
The truth is, it's easier to touch off a fight even with a piece of news as boring as this than to just ignore it. When this goes away, we'll have this argument moved to another thread to maintain the volume of castigation. Which may happen sooner rather than later, as it's hard to fake indignation about something so droll and maintain one's credibility for intelligent thought.
One of the problems is that independent press organizations can inform everyone of everything at once, or they can slowly release their information over the course of months or years to stretch out the sales from that particular line of inquiry. You can't blame them for opting for the latter. It's hard to come across a high volume of newsworthy stories for an interstellar readership. "What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"
-Matthew 16:26 |
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